Pokemon Spirit Chronicles (We Want You!)
- Thread starter ReasonableGamer
- Start date
silver wind
Member
I'm still confused. pokemon are now weapons, like sword, axe or dagger, and humans use them to fight other humans.. Why are they even fighting? If you're throwing daggers on people, you better have a reason, or you're a serial killer. o.o
Or, do you have a reason already? If so, you can write a plot, draw battlers AND make up original systems like the soul weapons. So why can't you make a real RPG?
Your ideas don't fit with pokemon, so you stuff them into weapons and ignore them.. I dunno, it sounds to me like they're in the way.
Or, do you have a reason already? If so, you can write a plot, draw battlers AND make up original systems like the soul weapons. So why can't you make a real RPG?
Your ideas don't fit with pokemon, so you stuff them into weapons and ignore them.. I dunno, it sounds to me like they're in the way.
GrooveMan.exe
Member
Why are you doing something unfamilliar? Why aren't you conforming to my ideas of how a Pokémon game shold be? Why are - BAWWWWWWWW
Also that's a really weak argument. If there are wild - as in life-threateningly dangerous to the unarmed or untrained - monsters roaming the landscape, and travel and urbanisation would be difficult if an area was infested with monsters, just what do you think people with weapons would be attacking, hm?
And if there's the chance of war breaking out between fueding states, and soul-infused weaponry was more effective than regular-old iron, just what would you be using, hm?
tl;dr, someone needs to play a few monster collecting/fighting RPGs that aren't Pokémon. That depiction of tone isn't just the only one possible.
Also that's a really weak argument. If there are wild - as in life-threateningly dangerous to the unarmed or untrained - monsters roaming the landscape, and travel and urbanisation would be difficult if an area was infested with monsters, just what do you think people with weapons would be attacking, hm?
And if there's the chance of war breaking out between fueding states, and soul-infused weaponry was more effective than regular-old iron, just what would you be using, hm?
tl;dr, someone needs to play a few monster collecting/fighting RPGs that aren't Pokémon. That depiction of tone isn't just the only one possible.
But if it is more like other monster catching games why make it Pokemon?
There are reasons for the established conventions.
This is what people have known since the 1980s and its what people have fallen in love with.
It doesn't mean we aren't willing to play it;
It simply means that by breaking convention in such a series
by such a large margin - I mean your killing the whole trainer - pokemon connection!
You might really turn off the fan base
If its not Pokemon why is it Pokemon?
There are reasons for the established conventions.
This is what people have known since the 1980s and its what people have fallen in love with.
It doesn't mean we aren't willing to play it;
It simply means that by breaking convention in such a series
by such a large margin - I mean your killing the whole trainer - pokemon connection!
You might really turn off the fan base
If its not Pokemon why is it Pokemon?
GrooveMan.exe
Member
Because there's more than one way to interpret a genre, and a lot of other games use (sometime very good!) mechanics and ideas that Pokémon hasn't touched for fear of straying too far away from their self-imposed template. For all the people who stick only to Pokémon because it's what they know, there's an equal amount of people who call the main series rehashed and stale. You can't please everyone, but this is a pretty damn good way of attempting it.
Of course, just because the technology is available doesn't mean that all parties involved are willing to use it - they disagree with the ethics behind forcible enslaving other living things, and try a less comative route in taming Pokémon.
Some allies (and enemies) have actual tamed Pokémon to fight along side, and the opinion and take on the moarls behind it differ from character to character.
Of course, just because the technology is available doesn't mean that all parties involved are willing to use it - they disagree with the ethics behind forcible enslaving other living things, and try a less comative route in taming Pokémon.
Some allies (and enemies) have actual tamed Pokémon to fight along side, and the opinion and take on the moarls behind it differ from character to character.
silver wind
Member
Why do you assume pokemon fans would want to slay pokemon, suck their soul out, and use them in a battle system that's nothing like the original ?
Why do you assume other people, not pokemon fans, will want to play a game labeled 'pokemon fan game'?
Who is your target audience? Did you check this subject, like asking pokemon fans in they like the concept? It's a good idea to do it.
I, too, believe the series is stale, but it doesn't mean I wanna kill pokemon.
Besides, if your game has non of the pokemon games features, I doubt it will attract pokemon fans.
Please understand, I'm not attacking you. your game looks great so far, and you've shown good skills. I think you shouldn't go for a fan game, take my advice or not, I'm done arguing with you. Good luck.
Why do you assume other people, not pokemon fans, will want to play a game labeled 'pokemon fan game'?
Who is your target audience? Did you check this subject, like asking pokemon fans in they like the concept? It's a good idea to do it.
I, too, believe the series is stale, but it doesn't mean I wanna kill pokemon.
Besides, if your game has non of the pokemon games features, I doubt it will attract pokemon fans.
Please understand, I'm not attacking you. your game looks great so far, and you've shown good skills. I think you shouldn't go for a fan game, take my advice or not, I'm done arguing with you. Good luck.
GrooveMan.exe
Member
Well if you get down to it, Pokémon's base idea is finding wild animals, beating them within an inch of their life, forcing them into slavery until they're FORCED to like you, followed by you taking them on the competitive battling circuit, using them for any and every possible task, including ones you could do on your own - before finally locking them away in storage for all eternity when you find a more powerful minion. All with a side order of genetic experimentation, american child pageant-esque rage and sobbing, forced prostitution, and steroid abuse.
And then saying "Good job, Squirtle!" makes it aaaaall better.
It's a little depressing (and a tad innaccurate) to say that Pokémon fans will refuse to play games that toy with the mechanics. Sure, because everyone just hated Mystery Dungeon and Ranger - along with the new Gauntlet-like Wii Ware game. Not to mention we're all Pokémon fans, and we love the idea!
Honestly, feedback has produced "We fear mechanics change" responses in the minority. This is one of many forums we're pitching to as part of userbase research, recruitment, and advertisement.
And then saying "Good job, Squirtle!" makes it aaaaall better.
It's a little depressing (and a tad innaccurate) to say that Pokémon fans will refuse to play games that toy with the mechanics. Sure, because everyone just hated Mystery Dungeon and Ranger - along with the new Gauntlet-like Wii Ware game. Not to mention we're all Pokémon fans, and we love the idea!
Honestly, feedback has produced "We fear mechanics change" responses in the minority. This is one of many forums we're pitching to as part of userbase research, recruitment, and advertisement.
This is not fear of mechanics change
btw I really like mystery dungeon and ranger
Rather its the loss of the Pokemon itself
And the atmosphere created through them
Despite all of this:
With weapons you can't do that
You're not going to say "I love you" "Good Job" to a weapon
And in a way that was one of the most important things in any Pokemon game
And it still doesn't mean we won't play
just that as a Pokemon game it could be really awkward O.o
btw I really like mystery dungeon and ranger
Rather its the loss of the Pokemon itself
And the atmosphere created through them
Despite all of this:
Pokemon still maintains a cutesy attitude and a portrays friendship
With weapons you can't do that
You're not going to say "I love you" "Good Job" to a weapon
And in a way that was one of the most important things in any Pokemon game
And it still doesn't mean we won't play
just that as a Pokemon game it could be really awkward O.o
ReasonableGamer
Member
We're not trying to fit in the whole 'friendship with Pokemon' business into the mechanics of the game. It will feature in the plot, how much I can't say, but this is still going to primarily be about the humans involved, with Pokemon often seen as wild beasts, tools of war or even possible catastrophes.
Can't say much for a 'cutesy attitude' as we're not really including such a thing, but the game more than redeems the loss of such things. We're going to prove that there can be more to Pokemon than simple Saturday morning cartoon philosophies such as 'friendship' and 'cuteness'. Not that I'm saying it's going to be terrifically deep, but it is going to be a somewhat more mature approach to the Pokemon universe.
The mythos is going to be there, the characters, the creatures, the locations are going to be there. It's the general setting, narrative and focus that are going to be different.
Can't say much for a 'cutesy attitude' as we're not really including such a thing, but the game more than redeems the loss of such things. We're going to prove that there can be more to Pokemon than simple Saturday morning cartoon philosophies such as 'friendship' and 'cuteness'. Not that I'm saying it's going to be terrifically deep, but it is going to be a somewhat more mature approach to the Pokemon universe.
The mythos is going to be there, the characters, the creatures, the locations are going to be there. It's the general setting, narrative and focus that are going to be different.
ebhz.Ash.4rm
Member
Where to start, this looked promising until the word "crafting" in the first paragraph, your reply to people say this doesn't fit in with pokemon seems to be that here are other games where monsters are viewed as monsters. In pokemon they're pocket monsters, cute little things that only show malice when some slightly mean person has screwed up their habitat or used a machine to make them do bad, bad things. How you expect fans to be content with just saying that they're viewed as wild beasts, tools of war and can cause catastrophes so they're being hunted down, killed and made into weapons to fight in some non existant war because there's no war in the pokeverse because everyones so effing nice, so nice the closest thing they have to a swear word is darn and the bad people are so nice they once you beat them in a pokemon battle they see the error of their ways and make the world a better place.
The premise for this is crap, very crap for once because you can't give a valid reason for the pokeverse to have gone to the dark side. What your story looks like now is a team rocket plan gone wrong, lets say you set this game after platinum (because it has to be in the pokeverse or it's not a pokemon fangame and they're not pokemon but other kind of monsters that can't fit in your pocket) and the world is as nice and pure and cute as it was before but slightly more 3D where does someone deciding to kill and harvest pokemon into weapons come in? At best it could be pulled off as a team rocket, galactic, magma, aqua plan but even they only wanted to use legendary pokemon to put into motion some plan to make the world lucrative for them not to kill pokemon to make weapons when they already have lightning summoning fire breathing tornado creating tsunami appearing biological weapons of mass destruction one pokeball away from them. The concept does not slot in at any point in the actual pokeverse, if you're going to move it out of it then it's not pokemon and make it something else. I like pokemon cute and idealistic and i would not have it any other way, if i want something dark and gritty i'll play metroid or gears 2 I do not play pokemon for my dark fix.
And where the hell do the cute looking protagonists come into this? If the world of pokemon has taken a turn for the worst and the sky is overcast 24/7 (welcome to the UK) and the grass and trees suddenly start looking like actual grass and trees then why would the protagonists still look like 10 yo kids who just got their first pokemon from oak and are about to set off into the world alone because there is not a single evil thing out there that can harm them because it's pokemon and nothing is ever evil (well not for longer than 20 or so minutes)? And if anything if you are going to have the usual cute pure people as the main characters then shouldn't they be the people trying to stop others using pokemon as weapons and promoting using them as they did before to strike lightning on your enemies and roast your rivals rather than continuing the trend like it's going to make the world a better place, surely killing pikachu's kid brother and then attacking him with it isn't going to make pokemon reasonable again? And a 100 year time skip is not a good reason for something evil to appear in the world of pokemon. But everything in this paragraph doesn't matter because the idea wouldn't make it's way into the pokeverse in the first place.
Next thing you know people will be saying alcohol and college parties are a good direction for pokemon to be going in, wrong.
The premise for this is crap, very crap for once because you can't give a valid reason for the pokeverse to have gone to the dark side. What your story looks like now is a team rocket plan gone wrong, lets say you set this game after platinum (because it has to be in the pokeverse or it's not a pokemon fangame and they're not pokemon but other kind of monsters that can't fit in your pocket) and the world is as nice and pure and cute as it was before but slightly more 3D where does someone deciding to kill and harvest pokemon into weapons come in? At best it could be pulled off as a team rocket, galactic, magma, aqua plan but even they only wanted to use legendary pokemon to put into motion some plan to make the world lucrative for them not to kill pokemon to make weapons when they already have lightning summoning fire breathing tornado creating tsunami appearing biological weapons of mass destruction one pokeball away from them. The concept does not slot in at any point in the actual pokeverse, if you're going to move it out of it then it's not pokemon and make it something else. I like pokemon cute and idealistic and i would not have it any other way, if i want something dark and gritty i'll play metroid or gears 2 I do not play pokemon for my dark fix.
And where the hell do the cute looking protagonists come into this? If the world of pokemon has taken a turn for the worst and the sky is overcast 24/7 (welcome to the UK) and the grass and trees suddenly start looking like actual grass and trees then why would the protagonists still look like 10 yo kids who just got their first pokemon from oak and are about to set off into the world alone because there is not a single evil thing out there that can harm them because it's pokemon and nothing is ever evil (well not for longer than 20 or so minutes)? And if anything if you are going to have the usual cute pure people as the main characters then shouldn't they be the people trying to stop others using pokemon as weapons and promoting using them as they did before to strike lightning on your enemies and roast your rivals rather than continuing the trend like it's going to make the world a better place, surely killing pikachu's kid brother and then attacking him with it isn't going to make pokemon reasonable again? And a 100 year time skip is not a good reason for something evil to appear in the world of pokemon. But everything in this paragraph doesn't matter because the idea wouldn't make it's way into the pokeverse in the first place.
Next thing you know people will be saying alcohol and college parties are a good direction for pokemon to be going in, wrong.
ReasonableGamer
Member
Uh... thanks for that, Ash. Whilst I appreciate the gusto that you replied with, you really don't understand what this game's about at all. It's not supposed to fit into the canon Pokeverse. Don't say 'make it something other than Pokemon' in response to this because it is a Pokemon fan game. Pokemon is the reason for its existence. We're taking the characters, creatures, locations and several parts of the mythos and re-writing them. Contemporizing them into a new format. That of a JRPG.
The plot is still quite under wraps but I'll look to shedding a few more details on it. Firstly, the tone of the game isn't going to be that dark. It's much like that of any other standard JRPG, the Final Fantasies (with less brooding) or Breath of Fires. A representation of a fantastical world facing a crisis. We're going to handle it maturely but it's not like rape and drug abuse will be vital themes to the game. One criticism of previous Pokemon games are the sheer nonsensical moments such as vast crime syndicates being taken down by a child because they lost Pokemon battles. Whilst I'm not saying Pokemon is bad for that, I'm saying we'll be able to handle plot points and things such as believable threat in a somewhat more serious level.
The tone of the game isn't going to be 'Metroid' or 'Gears 2'. It'll be light-hearted at times and somewhat more intense and serious at times. As writers, it's me and GrooveMan's job to to set that tone and I can assure you it's not something as easily dismissed as that.
The crafting system will stay because weapons are needed in this world, for reasons that will become apparent the more details we reveal about the plot and the technology to capture and hypnotise Pokemon doesn't exist. Some people do raise Pokemon as pets but, as can be seen in the original games too, the vast majority are wild beasts. Since these wild beasts populate any place they can, the players need to defend themselves.
I hope this has educated you a little more on the project.
The plot is still quite under wraps but I'll look to shedding a few more details on it. Firstly, the tone of the game isn't going to be that dark. It's much like that of any other standard JRPG, the Final Fantasies (with less brooding) or Breath of Fires. A representation of a fantastical world facing a crisis. We're going to handle it maturely but it's not like rape and drug abuse will be vital themes to the game. One criticism of previous Pokemon games are the sheer nonsensical moments such as vast crime syndicates being taken down by a child because they lost Pokemon battles. Whilst I'm not saying Pokemon is bad for that, I'm saying we'll be able to handle plot points and things such as believable threat in a somewhat more serious level.
The tone of the game isn't going to be 'Metroid' or 'Gears 2'. It'll be light-hearted at times and somewhat more intense and serious at times. As writers, it's me and GrooveMan's job to to set that tone and I can assure you it's not something as easily dismissed as that.
The crafting system will stay because weapons are needed in this world, for reasons that will become apparent the more details we reveal about the plot and the technology to capture and hypnotise Pokemon doesn't exist. Some people do raise Pokemon as pets but, as can be seen in the original games too, the vast majority are wild beasts. Since these wild beasts populate any place they can, the players need to defend themselves.
I hope this has educated you a little more on the project.
ebhz.Ash.4rm
Member
ReasonableGamer":32zjzvt0 said:
Platinum came out in the UK on May 25th (or something) it's as contemporarorary as JRPGs get.
Well if the plot becomes somewhat plausible I guess I can't really complain but I still don't have to like it.
ReasonableGamer
Member
Platinum's still a Pokemon game first and foremost. Granted it's the most plot orientated one yet, but that's not difficult. Our game will have something of a less simple storyline.
But yes, I'll try and get more details of the plot to back up the premise.
But yes, I'll try and get more details of the plot to back up the premise.
ebhz.Ash.4rm
Member
That's what concept dev is for after all, you should post up what you have at least. Unless this is it.
GrooveMan.exe
Member
You've missed the point a little. Platinum - although focusing more on plot - takes place during the same time period and in the same 'universe' as the other Pokémon games, meaning the tone is consistent between them.
We have no such restriction, therefore giving us the freedom to take the idea of Pokémon and the geography and characters that have been established, and slide the Idealism/Cynicism scale away from the idealisic utopia presented in the main series. Not enough to cause a plot shift to the GRIMDARK, but to give what little plotline existed before a more mature and more interesting representation.
Ultimately we explore the inherent flaws that would occur in a utopia such as the Pokémon universe.
- If Pokémon are so much more powerful than the average human, why would they be friendly and obedient to potential slave-drivers?
- On that same note, why would humans actively seek to live in harmony with Pokémon when they can be a threat to society?
- Pokémon can be used as tools to solve issues, but most Pokémon are wild. What would be the best method of both dominating them, and putting them in the most useful capacity possible?
- As useful as human invention is, there's also the potential for misuse and conflict. How would Pokémon factor in to that?
As for your complaints about the protagonists; that only holds water if you assume we change only the idea of Pokéquipment, and nothing else. There is nothing that we've said that remotely even suggests that; so you're firing way off target. The re-imagining applies to all aspects of world lore, and to a degree, some of the mechanics. The protagonists - while (some are) young - are quite clearly not 10; nor do they exhibit the kind of naivette you seem to be clinging to.
Take Blue for example. In a nod to the manga, she's a thief for a living. That's a pretty serious lifestyle, with heavy rammifications if you got caught. To be good at what she does, she's good at socialising and manipulating people. It's very likely that her interaction with other characters suits an ulterior motive. Not only is her battle partner, Gold, a competent fighter - he's also very easy to control.
Gold himself is strong and proud, with a self-instilled sense of chivalry, but he's also arrogant and selfish, not to mention easy to read. He's motivated by physical rewards just as much as he's motivated by justice, a side of him that's reflected in Blue; but not one he'd readily admit.
We have no such restriction, therefore giving us the freedom to take the idea of Pokémon and the geography and characters that have been established, and slide the Idealism/Cynicism scale away from the idealisic utopia presented in the main series. Not enough to cause a plot shift to the GRIMDARK, but to give what little plotline existed before a more mature and more interesting representation.
Ultimately we explore the inherent flaws that would occur in a utopia such as the Pokémon universe.
- If Pokémon are so much more powerful than the average human, why would they be friendly and obedient to potential slave-drivers?
- On that same note, why would humans actively seek to live in harmony with Pokémon when they can be a threat to society?
- Pokémon can be used as tools to solve issues, but most Pokémon are wild. What would be the best method of both dominating them, and putting them in the most useful capacity possible?
- As useful as human invention is, there's also the potential for misuse and conflict. How would Pokémon factor in to that?
As for your complaints about the protagonists; that only holds water if you assume we change only the idea of Pokéquipment, and nothing else. There is nothing that we've said that remotely even suggests that; so you're firing way off target. The re-imagining applies to all aspects of world lore, and to a degree, some of the mechanics. The protagonists - while (some are) young - are quite clearly not 10; nor do they exhibit the kind of naivette you seem to be clinging to.
Take Blue for example. In a nod to the manga, she's a thief for a living. That's a pretty serious lifestyle, with heavy rammifications if you got caught. To be good at what she does, she's good at socialising and manipulating people. It's very likely that her interaction with other characters suits an ulterior motive. Not only is her battle partner, Gold, a competent fighter - he's also very easy to control.
Gold himself is strong and proud, with a self-instilled sense of chivalry, but he's also arrogant and selfish, not to mention easy to read. He's motivated by physical rewards just as much as he's motivated by justice, a side of him that's reflected in Blue; but not one he'd readily admit.
ebhz.Ash.4rm
Member
GrooveMan.exe":26uksopl said:
That's what I don't like, this is a mature game. Okay. But you're selling it as pokemon the mature version, if mature content is put in there merely for the sake of putting it in a pokemon fangame then what's the point of it? Surely the story could've been told in a less crude fashion and still have the feel of a pokemon game at it's core, rather than adding in murder, soul removal and war just to change up the formula. Mature content feels unneeded in the pokemon world and it always will be.
GrooveMan.exe":26uksopl said:
There are no flaws, it's a game, it isn't our reality, it will never destroy itself in nuclear war or get hit by a string of natural disasters. It is as perfect as a world with monsters can get and will stay that way forever. The only flaw in it is that they either have to keep making new pokemon to keep it alive or do remakes on new consoles, the people in it will never have sex on screen or kill each other in a bloody pixelated mess.
GrooveMan.exe":26uksopl said:
Slave Drivers, the fuck? Last I checked the pokemon that were with the most evil organization on the planet were content so I don't see this coming in. They may be powerful but they have no evil, frustration or annoyance they get but they're generally happy go lucky (have you seen pokemon anime intros?).
GrooveMan.exe":26uksopl said:
Threat to society? Why don't we see the police out hunting down the peaceful animals that's don't get in the way of our daily lives until we want to tear down their habitats for a new back garden or something? Pokemon are as much of a threat to society as Giovanni is at the start of Pokemon Blue.
GrooveMan.exe":26uksopl said:
How about using a pokeball, oh shit wait they already did that. Next.
GrooveMan.exe":26uksopl said:
Well in pokemon ranger there was that device to control the legendary dogs, there have been mind control devices in the anime. I don't think anyone anywhere thought to make a sword, there isn't even a samurai trainer type, where do we get to swords from pikachu's tail?
GrooveMan.exe":26uksopl said:
Don't give such a cruel thing a cute name, you'll make the kids cry when they find out what it is.
GrooveMan.exe":26uksopl said:
Oh I'm sorry, all the other protagonists where 10 was I wrong to assume you'd continue that and their cute smiling faces (that i can imagine from the art already up there) whilst swinging around pikachu tail swords where those that only kids who didn't know they where authentic would have. What teenager is gonna go out on a quest with items make from pokemon, honestly.
GrooveMan.exe":26uksopl said:
Okay so what you missed from that is that even at a young age children have such qualities and to appeal to them they where the stronger points of their personality in the manga. The manga is clearly aimed at kids and pokemon fans, I quite enjoyed it because I'd never read pokemon manga before and it was certainly more insightful on how the games bridge together (hell even yellow) and generally a good read but because it's a different media they had to handle the storytelling differently hence the personality traits you brought up. That alone is not reason enough to flip pokemon on it's head merely for the sake of it. That's what I mean when I say the premise is crap, there is no valid reason for such enmity to enter pokemon in the first place, im sure 100 years in the pokemon timeline the gym leaders, elite 4 and pokemon trainers will be just as cheery to meet you as they were before and even more so when the old timers start telling legends of red, blue, gold, silver and all the other minerals.
If you can't get any validity for pokemon running rampant, people seriously making weapons (when they can make pokeballs, catch and tame said monsters using gym badges or whatever treats they have and use them to pwn all the other pokemons that wanna pick a fight) and whatever else you want going on in your world then it won't stay afloat.
And like I said before regardless of if you do I don't like it so I won't ever, ever, ever give up on you changing that stupid pokequipment stuff (well maybe when it's finished).
GrooveMan.exe
Member
Again, it's incredibly naive and stubborn of you to not only consider that *any* world or reality (fact or fiction) is flawless, but that dealing with more complex social situations is some how akin to explicit sex and violence in your mind.
Are you saying that the only examples of mature ideas in media you've experienced is extreme gore and sexuality? That's depressingly sheltered and stilted of you; and it wouldn't to do apply that preconception to anything that might use they keyword 'mature'.
To go on a slight tangent to game design in general, it could be argued that the use of 'mature' has become something of a misnomer when describing games. Games like Mad World are described as 'mature', as it contains large amounts of blood and violence - but the comical and unabashed way it's represented is not mature at all. I'd wager that this is the definition for mature you're using, which would be... inappropriate to use in this context.
While I will admit that violence plays a part in this game (as it does with Pokémon normally!), none of it will be graphic, some of it implied. While we'd be handicapping ourselves if we didn't put elements of romance or sexuality as part of character development, it's not a driving plot force; and again, nothing graphic is likley to appear on-screen (let alone even mentioned - this isn't an H-game). As for alcohol? Well it's a common social device everywhere.
Addressing the Pokéball/Capture Device issue, Pokéballs serve as a portable way to contain a Pokémon. That's all well and good, but it doesn't guarantee that upon release, the ensared monster won't claw your face off. In fact, that's one of the flavouring 'flaws' with the original design - through no well-explained reason, any and every Pokémon becomes perfectly obedient to the person that caught it. That's some pretty serious implications right there. Soul Capturing circumvents this issue - the Pokémon no longer has a corporeal body to rebel with, no brain-reprogramming necessary.
Hm, put that way, Soul Capturing sounds slightly more humane...
To summarise; I think the reason why you're having trouble fathoming this is largely due to 3 things:
- 'Mature' for you means explicit content. (This isn't true!)
- The representation of Pokémon Spirit Chronicles takes place in the same continuity as the main series (Not true either! This is the MegaMan Battle Network to the main Series' MegaMan Classic)
- That only self proclaimed villains are capable of doing amoral things (Now that's just silly, and potentially dangerous if you apply that kind of thought to real life situations.)
You might want to take a quick read of
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ayMorality
To get where we're coming from. While the main series throws a well defined (supposed) Black/White morality difference at you, we plan to explore the gray area in-between.
Are you saying that the only examples of mature ideas in media you've experienced is extreme gore and sexuality? That's depressingly sheltered and stilted of you; and it wouldn't to do apply that preconception to anything that might use they keyword 'mature'.
To go on a slight tangent to game design in general, it could be argued that the use of 'mature' has become something of a misnomer when describing games. Games like Mad World are described as 'mature', as it contains large amounts of blood and violence - but the comical and unabashed way it's represented is not mature at all. I'd wager that this is the definition for mature you're using, which would be... inappropriate to use in this context.
While I will admit that violence plays a part in this game (as it does with Pokémon normally!), none of it will be graphic, some of it implied. While we'd be handicapping ourselves if we didn't put elements of romance or sexuality as part of character development, it's not a driving plot force; and again, nothing graphic is likley to appear on-screen (let alone even mentioned - this isn't an H-game). As for alcohol? Well it's a common social device everywhere.
Addressing the Pokéball/Capture Device issue, Pokéballs serve as a portable way to contain a Pokémon. That's all well and good, but it doesn't guarantee that upon release, the ensared monster won't claw your face off. In fact, that's one of the flavouring 'flaws' with the original design - through no well-explained reason, any and every Pokémon becomes perfectly obedient to the person that caught it. That's some pretty serious implications right there. Soul Capturing circumvents this issue - the Pokémon no longer has a corporeal body to rebel with, no brain-reprogramming necessary.
Hm, put that way, Soul Capturing sounds slightly more humane...
To summarise; I think the reason why you're having trouble fathoming this is largely due to 3 things:
- 'Mature' for you means explicit content. (This isn't true!)
- The representation of Pokémon Spirit Chronicles takes place in the same continuity as the main series (Not true either! This is the MegaMan Battle Network to the main Series' MegaMan Classic)
- That only self proclaimed villains are capable of doing amoral things (Now that's just silly, and potentially dangerous if you apply that kind of thought to real life situations.)
You might want to take a quick read of
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ayMorality
To get where we're coming from. While the main series throws a well defined (supposed) Black/White morality difference at you, we plan to explore the gray area in-between.
silver wind
Member
That bugs me too. But there's the difference between us: I'd solve it by saying you can't use a pokemon in battle until you raise its happiness. and have some way to 'bond' with your new pokemon. Or, just say 'pokeball makes wild pokemon more friendly' and leave it at that. you, on the other hand, kill them, enslave their soul, and throw the trainer-pokemon bond through the window. -.-GrooveMan.exe":2rbsvjp2 said:
GrooveMan.exe
Member
In most contexts, yeah. Of course they may be sitauations where a human and Pokémon have a bond for each other (It's extremely hard to do so due to communication barriers, but it's possible), and the Pokémon is willing to give up its soul for the protection of its partner.
It's a snazzy immortality loophole in a way.
It's a snazzy immortality loophole in a way.
ebhz.Ash.4rm
Member
GrooveMan.exe":6ketjnpq said:
Hold on killing pokemon and turning them into weapons isn't explicit violence, even if it's left to your imagination it's still grusome. And considering this isn't final fantasy or some other weapons oriented game as well and that pokemon are seen as friends in general in the series how can you tell me that your idea doesn't entail such things. Honestly maturity isn't a line that pokemons crossed whether in morality, sex, violence whatever, I don't want my pokemon questioning whether me sending it to get battered against the elite for the 17th time is right or wrong, I wanna do it anyway. If you're going to add in such things it's not gonna go down well in the first place.
GrooveMan.exe":6ketjnpq said:
Excuse me, killing and harvesting the souls of pokemon, the most innocent monsters in a game ever. No matter how you look at it it's explicit violence and not needed! We still have pokeballs and for the rowdy ones we have luxury balls to make em like us, doesn't that make out lives simpler.
GrooveMan.exe":6ketjnpq said:
Like you said, to go on a slight tangent. And no that's not my definition of mature I just feel like tagging it to this game, it's as innaporpriate as madworld was on the wii.
GrooveMan.exe":6ketjnpq said:
Handicapping yourself by not putting in romance or sexuality? It's never held the other pokemon games back? Why would it start now? And pokeviolence has never been to the point where someone dies, well except for cubones mother but that wasn't mass scale murder and is the only one I can think of in the whole series so far.
GrooveMan.exe":6ketjnpq said:
No it doesn't, it's like saying criminals should all be killed so we don't have to rehabilitate them. Except they're not criminals they're innocent monsters who are not in the way of society. And even if said beast claws your face off it doesn't leave a giant scar, how many times did pikachu attack ash in the first series and he hasn't got any marks now in what season 7, 8 I dunno. Pokemon does not lend itself to maturity as easily as you seem to be putting it, a series that has been 3+ for as long as I remember (which isn't long actually I don't even know if the first game was 3+ but I'll guess it hasn't crept past 7+ with the N64, GC and Wii games included) can't just have mature elements slotted in, you can't expect them to just work.
GrooveMan.exe":6ketjnpq said:
Look I already told you why I'm having trouble swallowing this, I don't like it in the first place, my opinion is very biased and normally you could ignore it but this is a fangame made by fans for them (hopefully) and if you're gonna pervert pokemon to such extremes then I'll tell you why I don't like it. And if you want to explore grey morality please do it elsewhere cos pokemon just does not have a grey, if you could find it in the main series then I wouldn't mind cos I'm sure the creators could do it reasonably but tacking on a 100 year timeskip and saying the worlds balance with pokemon has gone to shit does not cut it and neither does pokequipment.