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On the matter of a potential Final Fantasy VII Remake

If anything, according to my friends who play JRPGs, websites I frequent, and myself, JRPGs and Square Enix are at the state they are because they don't do shit like they did in the 90s in the SNES/PSX era, not because they're getting stagnant or whatever. The problem is that Square and JRPG fans know what we want; stop trying new shit that nobody likes, just go back to the same shit that made you super successful in the first place in the mid 90s and early 00s.

A lot of people, including myself, would kill for another RPG like Square used to make, Xenogears, Brave Fencer, Parasite Eve (99% of people I talked to were disappointed when the new PE game that just came out was...nothing like the first one), Secret of Mana, Chrono series, and the like. The problem is that Square Enix just churns shit out to the fanbase that nobody really asked for and nobody wanted, when all we really want is the same style of classics that made the company wildly successful in the first place.

The biggest stumble of the JRPG isn't that they're not catching up to WRPGs; they don't really need to, they're two different genres, and liking both isn't mutually exclusive. The problem is that companies are trying a bunch of new shit that nobody fucking appreciates when we already liked them just the way they were in the first place.



On the topic of a FFVII remake, I loved the game. *shrugs* I think the atmosphere was incredible, I enjoyed the gameplay, the Materia system was new for its time, and so was the execution of various tropes and plotline conventions. I don't think people give it credit now, but back in 1997, there really wasn't any RPG that did it like FFVII did, the game WAS groundbreaking in many respects and its sort of like Seinfeld in the fact that nobody really respects or remembers just how it changed the game and how innovative it was.
 

mawk

Sponsor

wait did you seriously call ff7 underappreciated

okay I"m just going to pretend you didn't because goddamn take a cursory glance at deviantArt or a Youtube comment or something sometime

it's basically the defining example of people gettin their rosey-eyes gamelove on and ain't nobody can stop them

The X-factor has never been the exact formulae themselves, but their implementation. Those games you described were all pretty distinct from any games made up until that point -- maybe there's some overlap between Legend of Legaia and Xenogears, but I forget what came first and honestly don't care much. Square Enix has generally played around with mechanics in its Final Fantasy titles in particular ever since 6. 7 just rethought 6's weird limit system and retooled the espers, but that's okay because it was nervous about being 3D. 8 was a crazy child with no MP and a weirdass stat system, 9 had a fairly excellent new skill system despite being a last look at the earlier installments, 10 got its chinese checkers on, 11 was an MMO for some reason, 12 opened up the world and gave people a laundry list of sidequests, and 13 changed the old job system to an on-the-fly thing and made it so that everyone could do sweet jumps on their eidolons or whatever they're called now.

So I disagree with you when you say we just need another game exactly like the older Final Fantasies. Like you mentioned with FF7, those "classics" you brought up were all fairly fresh and genre-defining; token sequels or remakes would defeat the point. The result might still be fun, but it'd just be riding on the corpse of the original. Square Enix just needs to remember that players don't actually get in the way of a game too badly and are sort of the entire point. It's not like they need to stop thinking of new ideas altogether and go back to what worked in 1997.

Remember FF4: The After Years? Yeah, I'd love to have that happen to Xenogears and Chrono Trigger too.
 
I'm not really saying they need to go literally back to what they did and not think of new ideas, but I definitely do think they migrated away from a winning formula. I'd much rather have SE with their business and development strategy of old than what we have now, for example it takes them about 3 years to develop a game and they seem to have a fear of console development in favor of making everything for handhelds.

They definitely do some to missing some 'spark' they had in the earlier days that they don't have now. One of them is that SE is pretty infamous for not listening to fan demand, ever, even those from Japanese fans. I understand the rule of the mob mentality, but on the other hand, if I'm paying for your shit, you should probably listen to us once in a while??? Developers like Bioware and Valve take fan opinions and thoughts into development consideration and they do great.

Also I'm not really talking about sequels or remakes of existing games. I'm talking about making their new games with the same developmental and conceptual strategy that worked for their old ones. If you get some time, read up on the production history for some of their newer titles like FF12/13/14, Fortress, and so on. It's a fucking mess.

Well, considering that Square Enix's stock is at a ten year low maybe someone will listen after all.

Although

wait did you seriously call ff7 underappreciated

okay I"m just going to pretend you didn't because goddamn take a cursory glance at deviantArt or a Youtube comment or something sometime

Yeah, true, that didn't come out quite right. I meant to say that many people, whether they like FFVII or no, they sort of 'forget' the fact that it's a pretty important game! Obviously like you said this is sort of a minority opinion but I like to address it when I can.
 
I can actually see why people say it's unappreciated because yeah there's a ton of gawking fanboys and fangirls out there to the point that even I, who thinks that it's the best game ever made, am a little on the queasy side. But there's also a lot of people who hate the game. And it's not for the reasons they give really, it's simply due to the fact that Final Fantasy VII has these fanboys and fangirls and suddenly they develop an unatural hatred for it simply because it wasn't their favourite game in the world. I'll admit I'm a victim of this when it comes to certain things too, such as Wayne Rooney and Lost. It's especially prominent in those who played FFVI first because let's face it Final Fantasy VII stole it's thunder. It's like the first child who built a cool gadget for science fair then the second younger child who built a nuclear reactor.

Anyway onto the very good points that Duttle made.

So I disagree with you when you say we just need another game exactly like the older Final Fantasies. Like you mentioned with FF7, those "classics" you brought up were all fairly fresh and genre-defining; token sequels or remakes would defeat the point. The result might still be fun, but it'd just be riding on the corpse of the original. Square Enix just needs to remember that players don't actually get in the way of a game too badly and are sort of the entire point. It's not like they need to stop thinking of new ideas altogether and go back to what worked in 1997.

It's exactly my point, sure it worked back then but it won't work now. If suddenly they released Final Fantasy XV with the materia system, 2D graphics and a medieval setting, people would be seriously disappointed.

Maybe it was just me but when I played through Final Fantasy XII, I missed the fixed camera angles, because it felt a little less cinematic. They improved on that a little in XIII, but that was I think more due to the fact that the visuals, despite your inability to explore anything beyond "the tunnel" were the best seen on a modern game. However I know for a fact that'd just never return, unless they made it optional.

However could the turned based battle system return, absolutely. I don't see why it wouldn't, sure people have complained it's a little slow, but at the end of the day, the turn based battle system is the staple of the JRPG, it's one of many reasons the JRPG is my favourite genre. Random battles have been removed, and I thought that FFX and FFX-2's battle systems were fast enough, and with a quicker victory screen, the game will flow more fluid-like. Whilst technically XIII had a turn based system, you could only control one character like in XII, this annoyed me SO much. This is a perfect example of what W-RPG things NOT to include, this takes away from the joy of a J-RPG and it DOESN'T fit, but I'll get into that in a bit.

World Maps, we've all pretty much expressed a want to have these back. So yeah. I had an idea that was like making the world map more of a 1:1, maybe a 1:2 or 1:4 size map, so it's a lot larger and more of a world exploration than just a representation of the world. I mean the later half of Final Fantasy XIII showed it was possible once you left "the tunnel" (though to be honest, I got bored long before then).

Towns, F***ing TOWNS! What kind of retards thought it'd be a good idea to remove towns from a J-RPG, that's like removing the battle system... no wait they did that in XII. Will get more into this on the bad W-RPG Aspects but still, removing towns doesn't make a more fluid game it makes a more frustrating game.

W-RPG Aspects (The Good):
I think that a linear story is a good aspect of a J-RPG and before I played XIII, I thought it was just people whining and moaning because they've got too short an attention span to actually play a proper J-RPG with a compelling story. Then I actually played the game. There's a difference between J-RPG's linear aspect of cinematic storytelling and just plain RUNNING THROUGH A TUNNEL!! Phew, now that's off my chest. People have told me not to compare W-RPGs and J-RPGs because they're completely different genres. Ehm... no they're not, they're just a different style because of their origin. At the end of the day, whilst I don't consider Mass Effect a full RPG, it's more like an Action RPG, the RPG elements are still there, lot's of these elements are present in J-RPGs too. I said it before but J-RPGs linearity can be a good thing, it can drive a story more, I'm just asking to tone it the hell down. W-RPGs have got this aspect of choice, that doesn't mean a story can be any less compelling and any writer who thinks so is just being damn lazy. I'm a writer professionally, *hint hint * square enix if you're reading this I'm better than you, or at least not as lazy, hire me * hint hint *. I mean with today's technology Mass Effect was able to tell a pretty damn compelling and fairly linear story, but the aspect of choice made the was events in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 seem like you had a choice to do something and tell the story in a different way. Mass Effect 3 is going to continue that trend. I don't think it's an impossible request to see a Final Fantasy game give us the opportunity to make decisions on a more open scale, XII had a good stab at it but made it perhaps a little too linear, a world map would have helped that especially. I'm not saying every word has to be chosen by you like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, but it would be nice to have some choice. (Also character customisation can't hurt a little, it's not like Shepard didn't have a set face that everyone knows as Shepard and some people use too, also I'm not sure how that's all that different to the old days of J-RPG where you literally chose everything about ALL your characters, including their names).

W-RPG Aspects (The Bad):

A few things I'll retread here, first off. The lack of towns, I know this was an attempt to appeal to the type of gamer that just wants to be in ACTIONS YEAH! RAGHGH!! BANG BANG HEADSHOT! YEAAH! But let's face it is the battle system of Final Fantasy suited to that? No, you do damage in statistics not though headshots blam blam woo! They removed towns because they thought it'd slow the pace of the game down. That's the IDEA! They're supposed to give you break to piss about and involve yourself deeper in the world of the game, talk with the people e.t.c. Another thing is the single character control only, if anyone says this isn't a W-RPG aspect taken to the retardation, I'll slap you, and my slaps HURT. In W-RPG's this works, because it's not a J-RPG style of battle. Take the Fallout games, whilst I wouldn't have minded if in Fallout 1 & 2 you could control your NPCs, it's all part of the W-RPG experience. In Fallout 3, it would have been dumb. Same with Mass Effect, or Dragon Age, they're your team-mates, and you control only youself and it works that way because it's more of an action style than a turn based combat. Knights of the Old Republic, despite my lack of enjoyment playing this game, is a prime example. Though you CAN control the other characters, you can only really control one at a time in battle, and that works because it's more of an action oriented style, it's not turn based as J-RPGs are.

I think that about wraps up my rant on fixing Final Fantasy, what does all this have to do with a Final Fantasy VII remake? Well like I said in the original post, the things that made VII so great, are dragging the series down now because of it's refusal to evolve right, or more importantly, evolve in the right direction. Final Fantasy VII was a great game, but now it is out of date and the remake is past it's due date. Whilst I'm certain a Final Fantasy VII remake would sell five million copies or above, it's not going to set the world alight like it did fourteen years ago. With that in mind, I think it's time that Final Fantasy listened to it's fans in some capacity and focused their efforts on a single good product rather than churning out a bunch of crap sequels, remakes and spin-offs. Focus their efforts into Final Fantasy XV and hope that they can return to what made Final Fantasy so great originally, but keep things fresh and new without shamelessly pandering to the crowd that simple isn't theirs.
 
If suddenly they released Final Fantasy XV with the materia system, 2D graphics and a medieval setting,

Huh? How would a medieval setting not work? Especially when the time period/setting of a game has absolutely nothing really to do with when it was released and tons of modern games released today have settings that run the gamut from futuristic down to almost the Stone Age?

So you're telling me every new Final Fantasy I have to expect a weird faux future setting from here on out?
 
I found FFVII to be a very good game but that's probably because it was the first game I played on Playstation that I bought myself (my Dad bought the console second hand with a bunch of games with it). It was my first Final Fantasy and I loved the storyline and the gameplay. Looking back retrospectively there are a lot of things wrong with it but the nostalgia brings me back to play it time after time again, so much so that I loved Advent Children because it kept the game alive, and love the prospect of a remake. I acknowledge that there are far better games - but to me it just holds a special place in my gaming history and for that reason I would love to see it remade in current technology and perhaps with a mix of the better systems from post-VII Final Fantasy games (such as gambits, and the License grid).

I do agree that Squeenix don't make entry-level FF games any more, at least not outside of Nintendo systems. Final Fantasy seems to me like a continuing storyline that doesn't actually continue. Does that make sense? Like, there is a clear progression from VII into VIII into IX, even though the games have nothing to do with one another - the slight change in systems, the slight improvement graphically, and the change in length, all keep the game flowing for people already into Final Fantasy. I personally think that's a positive rather than a negative, but then I would, because I am already a FF player.
 
Feldschlacht IV":g5kzb1ei said:
If suddenly they released Final Fantasy XV with the materia system, 2D graphics and a medieval setting,

Huh? How would a medieval setting not work? Especially when the time period/setting of a game has absolutely nothing really to do with when it was released and tons of modern games released today have settings that run the gamut from futuristic down to almost the Stone Age?

So you're telling me every new Final Fantasy I have to expect a weird faux future setting from here on out?

Okay that was a poor choice of words on my part. By medieval setting I meant the very basic style they had in the old games, the sort of cheesy classic RPG style that simply wouldn't work in a modern game. Hence why the Dragon Quest series has gone and switched to bloody handheld. I would like to see a semi-modern style like they did with Final Fantasy VII, I liked that style, VIII had a modern feel to it too, except when they threw us to Esthar. Before you say anything IX may have had a bit of a cheesy J-RPG style, but it was melded to it's own style, what I mean is the very basic styles they had in the early Final Fantasies like I-V. I wouldn't oppose a steam-punk style of VI either btw.
 
Oh, okay. I was about to get all Dragon Age up in your ass (which I forgot to list as a prominent example of a very great example of a modern game set in a medieval era).
 

candle

Sponsor

Petros":1956fewy said:
Feldschlacht IV":1956fewy said:
If suddenly they released Final Fantasy XV with the materia system, 2D graphics and a medieval setting,

Huh? How would a medieval setting not work? Especially when the time period/setting of a game has absolutely nothing really to do with when it was released and tons of modern games released today have settings that run the gamut from futuristic down to almost the Stone Age?

So you're telling me every new Final Fantasy I have to expect a weird faux future setting from here on out?

Okay that was a poor choice of words on my part. By medieval setting I meant the very basic style they had in the old games, the sort of cheesy classic RPG style that simply wouldn't work in a modern game. Hence why the Dragon Quest series has gone and switched to bloody handheld. I would like to see a semi-modern style like they did with Final Fantasy VII, I liked that style, VIII had a modern feel to it too, except when they threw us to Esthar. Before you say anything IX may have had a bit of a cheesy J-RPG style, but it was melded to it's own style, what I mean is the very basic styles they had in the early Final Fantasies like I-V. I wouldn't oppose a steam-punk style of VI either btw.


That has nothing to do with why Dragon Quest switched to the handheld. That was simply a design choice made for the Japanese market which spends most of their time on the go in subways and such. Seriously, they love Dragon Quest so much that everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) shuts down for about 3 days when a new one comes out. And you thought Halo-itis was bad!
 
That has nothing to do with why Dragon Quest switched to the handheld. That was simply a design choice made for the Japanese market which spends most of their time on the go in subways and such. Seriously, they love Dragon Quest so much that everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) shuts down for about 3 days when a new one comes out.

This is true. Dragon Quest will continue to remain extremely popular and profitable no matter what, most likely.
 
I'd just like to point out that Final Fantasy IX, XI and XII had a Medieval / Renaissance ambient, and they were all critically acclaimed. I'm not even saying it has to do anything with why these games were successful, I'm suggesting the time and place has absolutely nothing to do with it.
 
As I said before, it was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant the very old school cheesy RPG style. And secondly, XII was a bizzare eclectic mix of High Middle Ages and Sci-Fi. But I certainly wouldn't call it Medieval / Renaissance. Also IX as I said had it's own style that wasn't classic cheesy RPG. Please read my previous posts.
 

moog

Sponsor

VII is over rated as hell but IT IS DEF not a bad game! in fact it is probably one of the best games ever made tbh, even though translation efforts werent perfect, it came together nicely for being one of the first full 3D Rpgs.

Being that said though, ITS OVER RATED AS SHIT and they need to let it die. seriously remake 6 already jesus christ
 

moog

Sponsor

Juan J. Sánchez":2g9orz0v said:
I'd just like to point out that Final Fantasy IX, XI and XII had a Medieval / Renaissance ambient, and they were all critically acclaimed. I'm not even saying it has to do anything with why these games were successful, I'm suggesting the time and place has absolutely nothing to do with it.

technically so were the original four somewhat
 

Jason

Awesome Bro

You know, I've never actually played Final Fantasy VI, it's one of those games that I just know everything about because I've done a lot of reading up about it, know all the plot, the characters etc. and love the soundtrack, but I've never actually played the game, well, the first hour or so, that's it. I sort of want to find a rom of it or something, but fuck using a SNES emulator (ZSNES), it has some weird sound hiccups and graphical glitches, like enemies in battle being all fuzzy and disappearing and the selection arrow not being a finger but a green square as if it's a missing file...

If any PSX Era Final Fantasy needs remaking it's definitely 110% Final Fantasy IX, because y'know... it's just the best. (Well, on par with Final Fantasy X for me, lol)
 
Jbrist":3aw066gj said:
You know, I've never actually played Final Fantasy VI, it's one of those games that I just know everything about because I've done a lot of reading up about it, know all the plot, the characters etc. and love the soundtrack, but I've never actually played the game, well, the first hour or so, that's it. I sort of want to find a rom of it or something, but fuck using a SNES emulator (ZSNES), it has some weird sound hiccups and graphical glitches, like enemies in battle being all fuzzy and disappearing and the selection arrow not being a finger but a green square as if it's a missing file...

If any PSX Era Final Fantasy needs remaking it's definitely 110% Final Fantasy IX, because y'know... it's just the best. (Well, on par with Final Fantasy X for me, lol)

gba rom man, you realize it's ported to gba already
 

mawk

Sponsor

Jbrist, sounds like you got a bad ROM more than anything. ZSNES's graphics are usually more or less perfect, although it's not great at emulating some SNES sounds yet. I'd look for a new source and just play the original, since GBA resolution on a computer screen is pretty annoying and the bonus content is not well made at all.
 

Jason

Awesome Bro

Yeah that's why I'd rather look for a SNES ROM, I'd even settle for a PSX ISO, since I know both of these can support higher resolutions and still look nice, GBA upscaled on a PC is terrible because it smooths the edges, making it look horrible at something like 640x480.
 

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