Nigga, whats in a word? words change. whats it mean?

[Fallofthetyrant]

That was an illogic sarcasm, anyway...
Black people should, before anyone else, stop using the word...
Look at this thread:
http://www.rmxp.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15741
In one of the lines it says:
Oh noes... The evil NIGGA squad strikes again.

The game, conceived by one of the black users of this site should take that word out no?

 

[Rhazdel]

Rhazadel- I think to put it in the proper context, you should go to Vietnam and scream about your American pride.

???

Go to the middle east and ask what they think of women.

I wasn't really talking about it as a global social statement, but in the context of the U.S. and other major, developed countries (U.K., Canada, etc.).

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Even black community has problems don't you think?
http://www.independentngonline.com/?c=92&a=23765

Read this, quite interesting...

 

[Grandor]

I believe the word is given power by those who hear it. If I go and call you a faggot or an idiot, you may take that to heart. But that's your fault. Because you're giving it value. By listening and paying attention to these remarks and letting them offend you, you're letting them gain power and strength. If you know you know you're not an idiot, then why would you been offended by someone calling you it? The word Nigger, I believe is a word. It has a long history, because white people used to call black people that word when they were in slavery. However, people call it each other all the time. And I rarely see anyone offended by it. They're not giving it more then face value. Ignoring words like that is the best way to counter it I think, or not giving it so much thought.

 

[Roman Candle]

Oh noes... The evil NIGGA squad strikes again.

Were you born with some kind of visual disability which prevents you from seeing irony? In response to posting that article - who exactly is The Black Community? If you're trying to point out that some people are black and racist... Well, duh.

@Grandor
Oh, so if someone calls me a faggot, it's my fault then. Silly me.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Flaming? No, I don't see the irony, if I recall Lene said that word shouldn't be used. And Black community hmm, is the black community. Guy, really, did you go to university to get dumber or what?
And this is in response to your flaming. You gotta have the sportive spirit, you know? the Coubertin spirit.

 

[Grandor]

@Grandor
Oh, so if someone calls me a faggot, it's my fault then. Silly me.

It is your fault. You're the one who decided to listen to it. But it's also at fault at the person who wished to call you it as well. So, no it's not entirely your fault. :thumb:

 

[Ceroscuro]

Flaming? No, I don't see the irony, if I recall Lene said that word shouldn't be used.

I said this in the couch topic. Not all black people think the same. Lene is different than Jstreet, who is different than The Black Market, who is different than me. We don't all consult each other before each and every action to make sure the entire black population of the site, country, world, etc. are in agreement.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

What I meant is, if it shouldn't be used like Lene said, then why she didn't ask personally to those persons to remove it?
In my concerns the word itself doesn't bothers me since I don't use and wont ever do.
Just a matter of education I suppose.

 

[Lene]

What I meant is, if it shouldn't be used like Lene said, then why she didn't ask personally to those persons to remove it?
In my concerns the word itself doesn't bothers me since I don't use and wont ever do.
Just a matter of education I suppose.

I love the smell of privilege in the morning!

As for your post in general though, what. the. hell?

Fallofthetyrant, I suggest you read my previous posts on this matter. I personally feel I've been perfectly clear on how I feel about the matter, how this topic is a polarizing issue amongst the black community, and what I personally do about it.

DZ is totally right on the money (again!). I wonder how many times he'll have to repeat that before people will get it.

The fact that you feel that it's so shocking that not all black people are united in brotherhood, opinion and experience, reveals your ignorance.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

I don't get it, sorry, I don't have your "level" of education...
"A random white person (or sometimes anyone who doesn't appear black) saying the n-word will still get retaliated against because the only thing these people understand of the word is that it's a "black" word and only black people can use it and it defines black people."
So you are saying only blacks can call blacks niggers? why?...
Oh well, I suppose you gotta feel you got some kind of privilege, no?

 

[Roman Candle]

Fall, who are you talking about? Who is "you" that needs to feel like they "got some kind of privilege". Because you know full well that Lene doesn't use the word. You seem to be addressing this mythical 'Black Person', to whom you ascribe a set of beliefs, but whom I've never met. I'm not sure anybody else has, either.

The original use of the word fo the word nigger by black people was acceptable because it was ironic: "Haha, here's this word, which is totally insulting and degrading, but here's the twist - I'm using it to describe myself! Ironic!" This makes sense. This was showing that the people who did use the word to put people down didn't matter. That the whole divide could be made insignificant, and mocked. However, in recent times it's used more in the original sense - as a diviser. To identify and compartmentalise someone as black. Yes, this is a problem, and one that needs to be addressed.

However, the idea that "The Black Community" is the one that needs to do the addressing is absurd. 'The Black Community' has no meetings, no representatives, and no spokespeople. It can't cast a vote. You might as well refer to the Flatfooted Community, or the Red-Headed Community. You would do better saying that the 'Male Community' needs to band together to stamp out sexism.

NB "Ignorant" in this sense doesn't refer to academic prowess or intelligence. It's more about knowledge of how people and the world work and interact. Please understand that I'm not being agressive when I say this, because it is a genuine question, but is English your first language?

Grandor:
I in no way accept homophobism, or for that matter sexism or racism or any other particular bias. If someone stands in front of you and horribly insults you, you have every right to react. Doesn't it upset you that people like that exist?

 

[Lene]

FotT, when I call you ignorant, it's not about going to school and reading books. It's about understanding not only other people but yourself as well. You would consider yourself to be an individual with your own set of opinions, right?

Why then, are you so surprised that other people are as well? What makes them so different from you?

So you are saying only blacks can call blacks niggers? why?...

No, you're totally taking my quote out of context, and I'm not sure what purpose that serves for whatever your argument is.

I think education is key. I believe that the majority of people who use the word do not understand the meaning of this word, or do not care about the history of the word. If they did, they'd think twice about using it so casually.

And the most ironic thing is that the n-word is still offensive, even for people who use the word. A random white person (or sometimes anyone who doesn't appear black) saying the n-word will still get retaliated against because the only thing these people understand of the word is that it's a "black" word and only black people can use it and it defines black people.

That better? How about this:

It's easier said than done to say, throw away all the persecution that this word provokes and treat it like it's nothing. How can someone easily chuck away the numbers of people who have had to endure the negative consequences of this word in history? I can turn the other cheek and keep my nose high when it's being said to me an a malicious way because the people who say it are weak, miserable people. I've done that. But the way that black people are using this word? It's unacceptable, it's hypocritical and it shows a gross lack of self-respect.

JMO.

Oh well, I suppose you gotta feel you got some kind of privilege, no?

Yes, because using my race card gives me something other than grief and frustration. ':|

ETA: Oh, and Roman Candle, I'll just say that I agree with pretty much everything you've been saying in this thread.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Roman, why do you always try to act like you are right?
I presume you like to rub your intelligence around, no?
Hmm, so basically you would call yourself an open minded human being, no?
Well...
Then why opinions like these?
Everyone nowadays is dropping accoustic for shity indy overdriven electrics, so it's nice to see someone sticking with accoustic and clean electric. Go you!

and:

Ok, so I watched all those videos in the first post, and saw all those mentalist metallists, then I went and picked up my electric, and played it clean, then played it with distortion, and then I just wasn't as impressed. Obviously, I can't play anything like that, but it reminded me that on electric, if you practice forever, you would end up being able to play like that. They play incredibly fast, just not very well.

*by the way, it was acoustic, not accoustic... sorry for correcting your spelling, oh, superior being"
(And that was merely a joke )
Now let's come back to our topic...

I'll say this once, listening people constantly arguing about a word is so annoying, get better things to do than just rub your intelligence here.. please.
If you are making "supposedly" intelligent arguments, make them everywhere, if not, accept the fact you are human as I am, not better in any manner.
if you use the fact that I'm not an English speaker then you are just going low.
It would be the same for me to say then that you aren't white, or Asian, or any other race, culture, country, etc etc.
Roman, when I was saying "you" I was answering at Lene... sorry if I cannot use those good looking sentences in English, would you rather have an argument with me in French then? And don't be falsely acceptant, go claim
the same words in a country where white men are hated. You might change your mind. Don't be an hypocrite. Please.
And Lene, please, I got nothing against you either, but stop trying to act smart around.

Remember when I said I had a friend from Africa? you seemed shocked at it. Why? Is it so wrong for you that some white guy can actually have a friend from Africa?
Oh, I get it, I'm just using him to show everyone how "acceptant" I am...
That's why I married a North African woman. Hmm, I get your point...
Now, pride of what, and grief, COME ON, read some history books, and let me know if you ever find a country or race that haven't suffered in the past!
FIND ONE!, Now I wish you could understand French, I would introduce you to a man, a French, half African, Half French, a great comedian and maybe eventually a politician. Then again his ideals are more popular among white acceptant people than black people.
And, finally, if I said "Black community. it is maybe because the "Black Community" likes to call themselves that way. So I'm used to that term.
Au revoir

 

[Grandor]

Grandor:
I in no way accept homophobism, or for that matter sexism or racism or any other particular bias. If someone stands in front of you and horribly insults you, you have every right to react. Doesn't it upset you that people like that exist?

And by giving them attention you're feeding their need to insult you. It's a shame people like that have to be like that but I'm not going to say they shouldn't exist. That's life.

 

[Lene]

Remember when I said I had a friend from Africa? you seemed shocked at it. Why? Is it so wrong for you that some white guy can actually have a friend from Africa?

I'm not sure how you're making these conclusions.

Oh, I get it, I'm just using him to show everyone how "acceptant" I am...
That's why I married a North African woman. Hmm, I get your point...

Who cares who you associate with and why? What really gets me is that people feel that it grants some kind of immunity from the potential consequences of what comes out of their mouth.

Let me make this clear: I don't care if you have Black friends, I don't care if you have an African wife. I would not even care if you were Black.

It does not change the fact that I generally disagree with your posts in this thread and, I think that, while you may not mean harm by them, your statements have been ignorant. So, I'm challenging them!

And Lene, please, I got nothing against you either, but stop trying to act smart around.

I have nothing against you and I am not trying to "act smart" at your expense.

I'm a human being, I'm not perfect, I have irrational biases and prejudices.

However, I'm willing to realize that, be responsible for it, and attempt to fix them by learning, by discussing, by experiencing. Ignorance solves nothing, and it's a privilege of someone in a position of power, socially, to be able to choose ignorance as the solution. So that's why I made the comment I did in response to this remark of yours:

In my concerns the word itself doesn't bothers me since I don't use and wont ever do.

It's also why I don't understand why you can say this:

Now, pride of what, and grief, COME ON, read some history books, and let me know if you ever find a country or race that haven't suffered in the past!

What do you want me to say? Oh, since it happens to a lot of people, that makes hatred okay? Can you honestly believe that yourself?

Believe me, I am not under the delusion that hatred is soley a Black/White issue.

However, with this particular topic, it is. If you want to talk about racial/ethnic/gender/sexuality/religious/etc slurs and the history behind them and the issues that remain in the present, make another topic.

Speaking of that, it's exactly because of reading history books that I find it a huge problem that people are using the word, even if they don't mean offense by it. The word is volatile because of its history! So much so that, it seems even the black people who use it, claiming that they're reclaiming it and changing it's impact, can't seem to get over the potential (historically established) implications if someone who isn't black says it.

Maybe it's because, we may say history as if it happened a long time ago, but that's misleading. There are at least two generations still alive, who can say that they have experienced the intense, blatant and basically institutionalized hatred the word embodies.

Maybe, that's why you'll find that more older black people are against the word, while younger people don't care as much. There was a very interesting special on TV about this and I wish I could post some links here. I'll go searching for it later though.

 

[Roman Candle]

Ok, I am absolutely not going to respond to personal attacks on my character in this thread, (or in fact anywhere). When I asked if English was your first language, I was not trying to insult you. I was not being agressive. It was, in fact, an genuine question. I really believe I made this as clear as I possibly could have, when I said "I'm not being agressive" and "This is a genuine question". The reason, in fact, that I asked, was to try and tell whether you were misunderstanding me at a linguistical level, or whether you were just being plain beligerent. But now I'm starting to think that both are true.

I certainly wasn't mentioning your written style when I was asking who you were addressing in your earlier post. And the reason I asked was because you said this:

So you are saying only blacks can call blacks niggers? why?...

When Lene has always said the opposite. Not being an expert at English does not excuse the fact that it didn't make any sense.

I hope by "Falsely acceptant" you're not trying to say that I'm pretending not to be racist when I am. Because that is certainly what you've written.

My French is terrible. And because of that, if I was talking in French with you, instead of constantly putting words in people's mouths and making assumptions about what they're saying, I would ask you to make something clearer if I didn't understand. I don't think I'm better than you; if I was really a 'superior being' I would have walked away from this argument a long time ago. Unfortunately, I hate not having the last word :p Weak on my part, but there you go. However, I can tell you at least one thing I'm better at than you: At least I've learned some manners.

I've always felt that in every argument you owe it to the other person to try and put yourself across in the best way possible. I've always thought that everyone deserves for people to carry through a debate with them until each side understands the beliefs of the other. But, you've beaten me. Since what you say is largely unintelligible or non-constructive, I'll admit that it's more than I'm up to to stay in this thread.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

I feel the messages were mixed here and lots of words (and somehow insults we exchanged) Anyway, I express my sincere apologies to the parties involved in this topic.
I still thinking the problem of the "n-word" (I'm not being sarcastic, just respecting), it's bigger in USA, (Once again I'm probably wrong, since I don't live in USA.
I want to show you something, since I'm very proud of how Canada deals with racism, (of course there's a lot to do, Arabs and Latinos still having problems with getting jobs, etc). But at least a great progress has been done concerning black people, different Asian communities, and even (finally) native-american (incorrectly called indians, also not sure you say it this way in English), community, which still the most
alienated one.
http://fcis.oise.utoronto.ca/~gpieters/blklinks.html
Hopefully, the future might be very different.
Once again, my sincere apologies.
See ya

 

[Roph]

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9079/1 ... 842ky8.jpg[/img]

 

[Irockman]

I think that if someone wants to do it, fine. It's their choice.
http://www.all-creatures.org/recipes/im ... ni-can.jpg[/IMG]