Sunrise Hinode
Member
This post does not exist. Ignore it.
Nigga, whats in a word? words change. whats it mean?
- Thread starter FoxDemonSoavi
- Start date
Roman Candle
Member
I think he meant that the issue of black people (prejudice against them) is not a problem in the south unless you get black people from the north expecting differential treatment for being black. And that working class people aren't rednecks. I think.
I was reffering to the topic title. The indication that 'nigger' is indicative of ignorant black people, and therefore they must be from the south (rednecks) because they're ignorant? Its a liberal charicature of the south stacked on top of an archaic charicature. Both, ironically, as ignorant as the supposed meaning behind the word. Being from the south doesnt make you ignorant by default just like being black doesnt make you ignorant by default.
And for good measure, I threw in what most southern people actually think, in contrast to what the charicature of southern people think.
"Sorry, what? How is humility the opposite of ignorance? You can be humble and still completely ignorant."
No, you can't. Because if you were completely ignorant, you'd be audacious in your willful ignorance. Everyone would know where you stand. Humility indicates a willingness to adapt and learn. So humble people are less ignorant by merit of not throwing their beleif system in people's faces.
And for good measure, I threw in what most southern people actually think, in contrast to what the charicature of southern people think.
"Sorry, what? How is humility the opposite of ignorance? You can be humble and still completely ignorant."
No, you can't. Because if you were completely ignorant, you'd be audacious in your willful ignorance. Everyone would know where you stand. Humility indicates a willingness to adapt and learn. So humble people are less ignorant by merit of not throwing their beleif system in people's faces.
Title Loan Man
Member
I can't say that I agree with this. Everyone is ignorant to some degree on some subject, so to claim that ignorance without humility is impossible is to claim that humility is impossible.
I didnt say it was impossible, I said being humble and completely ignorant at the same time is impossible. The closest thing to it would be an infant, but lacking an unwillingness to learn they're not completely ignorant. You can be any realm of walking contradiction if you try hard enough.
I want to trace the word back to its original origin before it became a well-noted and one of the most derogatory racial terms to date. When white people used the term back then, I believe the definition for the word was for anyone that was uneducated/ignorant/inferior. Now because the whites felt that they had power of african americans, I believe this term is used appropriately but because of the "power" that people put into it, it became a term targeted specifically for african americans and has been stuck on as a racial term ever since. I find it totally unacceptable to hear african americans call each other niggas or niggers when that term was used to degrade the race so much. In comedy, people laugh at everything. Homo jokes, racial jokes, and even religious jokes as long as they do not go over any boundary that a comedian should know they shouldnt pass. I honestly think if the ancestors that were treated as slaves and were called niggers in disrespect to their race and heard the people of today use that term, I believe they would be highly pissed off at the ignorance of the current generation. Thats my opinion. I believe it is a term that nobody should use at all, whether you are black, white, yellow, purple, whatever.
You believing that further gives it power. Using it casually in the vein of Richard Pryor took away the word's power. Look at the derogitory terms for gay. They no longer really weild any power because gay people decided to call themselves those things. People looking to offend, then, are forced to find other terms. That's why there are so many derogitory terms for gay people and even white people. If it doesnt serve its purpose to offend, it falls out of favor and loses all power.
sixtyandaquarter
Member
Damn it, I was hoping to stay away from this thread, but Lene missed my symposium posts (so don't blame me, heh), and for whatever reason I read these 3 pages... and now stupid li'l me has to speak...er.. type, I mean.
I just want to say, to Macchia's post:
What word for gay has lost it's power that it is no longer an insult in general? Sure some homosexuals I know call themselves a fag, dyke, or some such - but I know a hell of a lot more who would be extremely aggitated if you used the word. Hell, the guy who cuts my hair won't even use the word "gay" - because he finds it demeaning ("I'm not gay. If I were gay I'd be wearing a rainbow shirt and serving margaritas on the beach with a big (cencored) soaked smile" - is an exact quote).
And as far as I know Pryor often used "nigger" as an insult to black people he didn't like, and "nigga" as a term for black people,but without the insult. An interview with him even has him stating "there's a difference between a blackman and a nigger". And as far as I know if I walk into a room of black people and say "hey nigger" i'll be in trouble.
However, with most of my friends I can say "hey nigga" and be fine, cause they forced me to say the word so many times now.
The word nigger, as an excepted word, is demeaning in most - although it has been attempted to be used by some as just another way of saying "black/brown individual" without the insult, to little avail. The slang word nigga is just another word for "individual". That nigga's crazy, you nigga get off my car, sup my nigga - etc... sometimes used for insult purposes, but often the word has become neutral. In my oppinion at least.
The funny thing is people get offended to easily, and people buy into it. If, for example, I get into a fight with a black man, and it esculates into violence. The entire time he could call me all sorts of insultive words, negative terms for a white male, but if I so much as say a word that sounds like nigga/er, after being called everything up and down 3 times over, I'll be the wrong one. The words are harmless, though the intent is based on the individual, and shows the type of individual who uses the words. But the whole thing is overblown.
And to alot of people who say things such as "black men shouldn't be using the word" or that those who come from slaves shouldn't, or some other thing just remember that, that would infact be a form of cencorship and in a sence you would be making something an entire race could not do. It's the same as saying a black man shouldn't marry a white woman, or a black man shouldn't like chinese food, or a white man shouldn't like baggy jeans - the crap is ridiculous. It goes for whites, hispanics, everyone. It's a word, that can be used by everyone. The word has no power, the intent of the word does. And as with all things intended, the intent isn't always clear.
EDIT:
And with that, I would've liked to go threw a list with all sorts of racial slurs. From those already posted in this thread, to others. Simply to say see ya later -term for person's race,sex, or creed- but I believe that would salt my intent, and be tastless and tactless. And so instead I say, "see ya later people". That is until the word people becomes a durragatory word for all humans. Wether this is done by aliens who enslave us, or a group of nonhumans who beleive themselves superior to us, or simply would rather group all of us together - like one would say Asian if unsure of origin. Or black. Or white. So until then, later peoples.
I just want to say, to Macchia's post:
What word for gay has lost it's power that it is no longer an insult in general? Sure some homosexuals I know call themselves a fag, dyke, or some such - but I know a hell of a lot more who would be extremely aggitated if you used the word. Hell, the guy who cuts my hair won't even use the word "gay" - because he finds it demeaning ("I'm not gay. If I were gay I'd be wearing a rainbow shirt and serving margaritas on the beach with a big (cencored) soaked smile" - is an exact quote).
And as far as I know Pryor often used "nigger" as an insult to black people he didn't like, and "nigga" as a term for black people,but without the insult. An interview with him even has him stating "there's a difference between a blackman and a nigger". And as far as I know if I walk into a room of black people and say "hey nigger" i'll be in trouble.
However, with most of my friends I can say "hey nigga" and be fine, cause they forced me to say the word so many times now.
The word nigger, as an excepted word, is demeaning in most - although it has been attempted to be used by some as just another way of saying "black/brown individual" without the insult, to little avail. The slang word nigga is just another word for "individual". That nigga's crazy, you nigga get off my car, sup my nigga - etc... sometimes used for insult purposes, but often the word has become neutral. In my oppinion at least.
The funny thing is people get offended to easily, and people buy into it. If, for example, I get into a fight with a black man, and it esculates into violence. The entire time he could call me all sorts of insultive words, negative terms for a white male, but if I so much as say a word that sounds like nigga/er, after being called everything up and down 3 times over, I'll be the wrong one. The words are harmless, though the intent is based on the individual, and shows the type of individual who uses the words. But the whole thing is overblown.
And to alot of people who say things such as "black men shouldn't be using the word" or that those who come from slaves shouldn't, or some other thing just remember that, that would infact be a form of cencorship and in a sence you would be making something an entire race could not do. It's the same as saying a black man shouldn't marry a white woman, or a black man shouldn't like chinese food, or a white man shouldn't like baggy jeans - the crap is ridiculous. It goes for whites, hispanics, everyone. It's a word, that can be used by everyone. The word has no power, the intent of the word does. And as with all things intended, the intent isn't always clear.
EDIT:
And with that, I would've liked to go threw a list with all sorts of racial slurs. From those already posted in this thread, to others. Simply to say see ya later -term for person's race,sex, or creed- but I believe that would salt my intent, and be tastless and tactless. And so instead I say, "see ya later people". That is until the word people becomes a durragatory word for all humans. Wether this is done by aliens who enslave us, or a group of nonhumans who beleive themselves superior to us, or simply would rather group all of us together - like one would say Asian if unsure of origin. Or black. Or white. So until then, later peoples.
The difference between insults for white people is that white people are the agent group at least in America. If you ask a white person in America to describe themselves, 9 times out of 10 they're not going to describe themselves as white. However, ask a black person the same exact question and they'll probably tell you they're black pretty quickly. Same with any other minority.
So a word that's insulting or degrading because of race...well it's going to affect the person who readily identifies themselves with race more than the person who identifies themselves with other traits. Especially if it's being used by the agent group.
Onto the power of words:
Words will always have power because it's impossible to say something that doesn't mean anything or with no intent. Have you ever tried an improv game where you and a partner speak gibberish to each other? Your ever present intent every time you voluntarily utter sound is what makes that game successful.
So a word that's insulting or degrading because of race...well it's going to affect the person who readily identifies themselves with race more than the person who identifies themselves with other traits. Especially if it's being used by the agent group.
Onto the power of words:
Words will always have power because it's impossible to say something that doesn't mean anything or with no intent. Have you ever tried an improv game where you and a partner speak gibberish to each other? Your ever present intent every time you voluntarily utter sound is what makes that game successful.
I dont know that that's completely true. I think it has a bit to do with a culture of victimization. I mean, I could go to central africa and suddenly I wouldnt be the default, "white" would suddenly be a descerning feature for me. That fact being pointed out wouldnt really be reason for offense. In a world with a majority of black guys, Im not "the guy with the rosey cheeks and big smile and Yogie Berra haircut", Im "that white guy". I refuse to believe people are so irrational and emotionally driven that they can't NOT be offended by words. Its simply not true. You're still making a choice to be offended and if you simply choose not to be offended anymore, the problem goes away. If someone's intent is provocation, my default reaction isnt offense. My reaction of choice may be offense, but Im not incapable of turning the other cheek.
The way most people see Race is pretty social so yes I agree with you, put yourself in a different situation and you'll see the difference in how other people identify you and how you identify yourself.
Macchia- Regardless of your reaction to a certain word, the word still has power, IMO. In fact if a word is able to provoke any kind of reaction even if it's turning the other cheek, well isn't that proving it has some power? You personally may not be offended (much), but no, the problem doesn't go away as long as there's at least one person out there who will be offended.
Macchia- Regardless of your reaction to a certain word, the word still has power, IMO. In fact if a word is able to provoke any kind of reaction even if it's turning the other cheek, well isn't that proving it has some power? You personally may not be offended (much), but no, the problem doesn't go away as long as there's at least one person out there who will be offended.
Lene;136302 said:
But in the end, isn't that a problem with the person (who is offended) and not the word itself? If that's the case I believe we should try and change society instead of ignoring the word or telling ourselves not to use it. If you put fences around people they're going to try and get around them (we've all heard that before.)
If people are bothered with something as simple as a word then it is up to them to change their society (or simply leave the society, depending on the severity of the situation.) I don't think if we pretend it doesn't exist and come up with imaginary rules of when and where it can be used things will somehow be better off.
FoxDemonSoavi
Member
as logn as it offends someone it gives it power. You take away the power of a word by choosing not to let it bother you. Its a philosphy used to help people learn to deal with insults. Enither the word nor the person using it, has the power to offend you without your permission.
Yes "as long as it offends someone." There will always be people offended by something so long as the majority of the society finds the word offensive. Thus, the most effective way to fix the problem is to change public opinion.
And while the word itself might not offend you, so long as it's used in an offensive way and the word offends others in that culture then the word carries weight.
And while the word itself might not offend you, so long as it's used in an offensive way and the word offends others in that culture then the word carries weight.
ixis;136400 said:
I don't pretend the word doesn't exist...I just don't think there's any reason to say the word the way people have been saying the word. Personally, it's something I refuse to perpetuate, so I will and I do actively try to bring people to a different understand of this word. Even if it's a small as telling my younger siblings the history of the word and why it's not cool slang helps. Or talking to my kids in the future, or even just talking to the people I come across.
I think education is key. I believe that the majority of people who use the word do not understand the meaning of this word, or do not care about the history of the word. If they did, they'd think twice about using it so casually.
And the most ironic thing is that the n-word is still offensive, even for people who use the word. A random white person (or sometimes anyone who doesn't appear black) saying the n-word will still get retaliated against because the only thing these people understand of the word is that it's a "black" word and only black people can use it and it defines black people.
Here's a post I found on the BET forums:
This? Is bullshit. I'm sorry, it's bullshit, in more ways than one. Yet I think there are a number of people who think that way. However, the majority of the posts on that forum are more like this:
I'm not the only one and I'm not part of a small minority either. This is a HUGE issue where the black community is divided on. I do think once discussion is opened up between black people I think people who mindlessly say the word for whatever reason will stop or become reluctant to use this word in the way they're using it.
It's easier said than done to say, throw away all the persecution that this word provokes and treat it like it's nothing. How can someone easily chuck away the numbers of people who have had to endure the negative consequences of this word in history? I can turn the other cheek and keep my nose high when it's being said to me an a malicious way because the people who say it are weak, miserable people. I've done that. But the way that black people are using this word? It's unacceptable, it's hypocritical and it shows a gross lack of self-respect.
JMO.
Anyone who says only black people can say the n-word is a racist, as they are saying only blacks can say it, not any other race. Plus, it's a double standard.
We live in a society where words mean more than their definition in the dicitionary. If someone says, "Wassup, Nigga" you easily tell that they are not trying to be offensive or rude and do not bear any grudge to people that are black. If, however, someone said, "That damn nigga/er!", in an angry tone, that could be deemed offensive.
Anyways, while words are not 'just words', people shouldn't get offended so easily by them. I'm jewish and I don't mind when my friends call me 'kike'. I don't mind if a neo-nazi came up to me and called me a 'kike'. I might dislike it, but he has a <b>right</b> to do so. Now, if there is violence, that's a whole other story (Speaking of violence, the whole 'hate crimes' thing is stupid. A crime is a crime. Making a crime any different/worse just because the people are of different color and the motivation are what some would call racist is just plain discrimination and a double standard.)
BTW, this post is just a general post for this thread, not meant to be a reply to any of the other posters.
We live in a society where words mean more than their definition in the dicitionary. If someone says, "Wassup, Nigga" you easily tell that they are not trying to be offensive or rude and do not bear any grudge to people that are black. If, however, someone said, "That damn nigga/er!", in an angry tone, that could be deemed offensive.
Anyways, while words are not 'just words', people shouldn't get offended so easily by them. I'm jewish and I don't mind when my friends call me 'kike'. I don't mind if a neo-nazi came up to me and called me a 'kike'. I might dislike it, but he has a <b>right</b> to do so. Now, if there is violence, that's a whole other story (Speaking of violence, the whole 'hate crimes' thing is stupid. A crime is a crime. Making a crime any different/worse just because the people are of different color and the motivation are what some would call racist is just plain discrimination and a double standard.)
BTW, this post is just a general post for this thread, not meant to be a reply to any of the other posters.
I was actually responding to soavifox lene. But, :P
I'm not asking to pretend it doesn't exist, I'm asking that we should change society (which is what your post goes on to say. There's a problem without our society and we have to change it.)
Perhaps the best thing we can do is teach respect for the history of the word to the younger generation.
I'm not asking to pretend it doesn't exist, I'm asking that we should change society (which is what your post goes on to say. There's a problem without our society and we have to change it.)
Perhaps the best thing we can do is teach respect for the history of the word to the younger generation.
FoxDemonSoavi
Member
ixis;136745 said:
Bascialy waht I was saying. But honestly each person allows themselves to be affected by the word. People used to hurt my feelings with insults all the time until I realized I was letting them hurt my feelings. If I chose not to be upset by the words they wouldn't upset me. Adn thus I got a "thick skin".
IF everyone realized that, the whole issue of being offended by a word would become moot.
sixtyandaquarter
Member
Just a question, and I know it deviates, sorry...
If this thread was "cracker, just a word for white rednecks?", would anyone have honestly cared? One day I was watching a movie on UPN, at the time they were trying to locally dub themselves the "blackest" channel here in NYC on billboards and bus side ads. This movie was from the 70's, and had several racial slurs. Nigger was cencored, it wasn't re-dubbed but simply cencored - with that annoying "beep". Every single insult one could have for white folk, and others, was not cencored or re-dubbed. The commercials saying "tonight's monday movie" (or whatever it was) even showed the black detective saying, about someone who was meant to be half Chinese and half Mexican, "You Chic. You know what a chik is? It's a half chink half spic"
Now, I'd just like to ask, would it been the same to reverse the roles? Have UPN dub itself the "whitest" channel, and have all the racial slurs redubbed or cencored about them, but leave nigger? To have a white guy say chink and spic. It wouldn't float, it would cause an uproar - which is, in my oppinion, wrong that one side can get away with something no other side can do.
The point I'm making really, is that when that was brought up once by someone I know (who sadly is racist) it made all of us laugh. The idea just seemed funny, to see a channel billing itself "whitest", because we knew it couldn't happen.
I know this was off the main road here, sorry about that but just a thought. If I can be called a mic, a cracker, and all the other things out there, a fag for having long hair, and all this and that - why can't I say nigger? Not that I do - I've already stated I'll use the friendly slang of "nigga" to friends whome I know for a fact aren't offended, more of an inside joke, but if for some reason I lapsed and used the word, after being called whatever, does that make the other guy right? I'd be wrong yes, but if we got into a fight about it I'd be the one who would have, if lawyers were called, brought up on hate crime charges.
BTW there are alot of worse words and phrases out there for white, black, gay, and every other "group" of people out there. These words stated in this post will be the most I'll go, and I won't use here on the forum any stronger and/or more offensive language for the sake of tasteful debate. Just a point that when I say "cracker", I don't mean to equate it to the same level of more powerful words such as "nigger". I'm just using the most used and known insult/phrase for a particular race/group of people.
If this thread was "cracker, just a word for white rednecks?", would anyone have honestly cared? One day I was watching a movie on UPN, at the time they were trying to locally dub themselves the "blackest" channel here in NYC on billboards and bus side ads. This movie was from the 70's, and had several racial slurs. Nigger was cencored, it wasn't re-dubbed but simply cencored - with that annoying "beep". Every single insult one could have for white folk, and others, was not cencored or re-dubbed. The commercials saying "tonight's monday movie" (or whatever it was) even showed the black detective saying, about someone who was meant to be half Chinese and half Mexican, "You Chic. You know what a chik is? It's a half chink half spic"
Now, I'd just like to ask, would it been the same to reverse the roles? Have UPN dub itself the "whitest" channel, and have all the racial slurs redubbed or cencored about them, but leave nigger? To have a white guy say chink and spic. It wouldn't float, it would cause an uproar - which is, in my oppinion, wrong that one side can get away with something no other side can do.
The point I'm making really, is that when that was brought up once by someone I know (who sadly is racist) it made all of us laugh. The idea just seemed funny, to see a channel billing itself "whitest", because we knew it couldn't happen.
I know this was off the main road here, sorry about that but just a thought. If I can be called a mic, a cracker, and all the other things out there, a fag for having long hair, and all this and that - why can't I say nigger? Not that I do - I've already stated I'll use the friendly slang of "nigga" to friends whome I know for a fact aren't offended, more of an inside joke, but if for some reason I lapsed and used the word, after being called whatever, does that make the other guy right? I'd be wrong yes, but if we got into a fight about it I'd be the one who would have, if lawyers were called, brought up on hate crime charges.
BTW there are alot of worse words and phrases out there for white, black, gay, and every other "group" of people out there. These words stated in this post will be the most I'll go, and I won't use here on the forum any stronger and/or more offensive language for the sake of tasteful debate. Just a point that when I say "cracker", I don't mean to equate it to the same level of more powerful words such as "nigger". I'm just using the most used and known insult/phrase for a particular race/group of people.
sixtyandaquarter;137254 said:
Because all of those other words you just mentioned don't have this heavy and dark stain across the pages of American history behind it.
If we start capturing any other culture group and use a derogatory term to denote them by then you'll be right. It's not just a hurtful word, but it carries history with it.