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"My Two Mommies", should gay and lesbian couples be legally able to adopt?

The fact that people actually oppose issues like this astound me. The cases made against gay adoption don't even begin to weigh up to the defense. However, I think this is just society being stubborn to accept change. Its proven that change is inevitable though, so in the question of whether gays should and will be able to adopt in the future, I say yes to both. First of all, no matter what case you make to kids bullying gays, kids adopted by gays becoming gay(which is a completely unfactual statement), etc. it is all useless arguments in the long run. The opposing side of this argument seems to only have one reason that they would not want gay adoption; they want the "perfect" family for adopted kids. And even if you view gay parents as a "negative" for adopted kids, it barely weighs up to the negatives of several other abusive or negligent families that adopt without conflict. We are comparing gay adoption to "perfect" adoption (and by perfect, I mean perfect by American traditional values), which barely happens. So when it comes to gay couples adopting, I say it is a good choice among bad alternatives.
 
sixtyandaquarter":1nijwx8q said:
Venetia":1nijwx8q said:
The only negative side effect I can foresee from a same-sex set of parents (who are caring and devoted parents) is a possibly problematic harassment from closed-minded bullies in school, and perhaps some relationship confusion later in life (as I've read many studies that suggest kids grow up to have more successful love lifes when they have both a male and a female rolemodel in their lives).
Okay maybe I'm not a good book to look at here, as some might now - but I never had a male and female role model in my parents.  I hated them, and they deserved it all.  My brother, who is in no way related to me in any legal way and I met in high school, is married.  His mother died when he was 8, and his father is a womanizing alcoholic and cocaine addicted bastard.
He's married with a new born and he's the happiest I've ever seen him.  I will never believe that who your parents or guardians are, describes who you will be.  I know plenty of people with stable loving families and they can't get shit right, and I know too many people with the reverse.
It's too chaotic.

Secondly, bullying is a horrible excuse.  I'll say it again even though I already said it once, and Vennie you'd know that this isn't meant to you as much to those who say this IS THE reason to disallow it.
It's allowing the hate.  It is.  It's saying, don't do something because someone else will hate you - better they never knew as opposed to better they learn something new.

It's promotion by regard of ignorance.

Interracial kids are just as bullied, so are fat kids and gingers and white kids in my neighborhood but we still all go to school.

*offtopic*
Just shooting out in the dark here, why gingers? I know a few that are actually hott -- i'm actually dating one.
*/offtopic*

At any rate, I believe that there should be a requiem for the family. Two lesbians should be able to adopt a female if they are a stable family with a good income. Same thing for males (with male babies).

People call others gay all the time in schools, but if someone is gay, then people will hate that person; but others will accept it. You have to have a personality that permits change and difference, otherwise you're as bad as the people you view to be.
 
Where is the proof that gay men or women cannot rear a competent healthy child? In a system that allows ONE parent to rear a child, I do not see how two gay parents should not be allowed to adopt. Until there's proof, I still say there's no way gay parents will magically turn the children they rear gay.
 
shiroun":1dqx69oo said:
At any rate, I believe that there should be a requiem for the family. Two lesbians should be able to adopt a female if they are a stable family with a good income. Same thing for males (with male babies).

Why does it matter what sex the baby is?

If the fear is that somehow the parents will want to do something to the children (an utter shit view I might add) then surely they'd be more likely to do it to the sex they're attracted to? (Again, adding, that that view is shit and I'm just talking relatively (is that the word?)).




Anyway.


My friend has the strictest, most middle-class and "perfect" parents ever. He's gay.

My other friend, who walked in home to find his dad screwing his friend's dad, is straight as a really straight thing in a 2 dimensional plane where everything was straight.

Another of my friends, walked in to find his dad's friend screwing his mom, and he turned out gay.

So yeah, the types of families you grow up with do not in any way decide how you end up. There are people from near me (a respectable area, not much trouble) who have guns; there are people from the ghetto-like downtown area of my city who are training to be lawyers and are in university.

I appear to be rambling again. Please shoot me.
 
shiroun":3ud02zvt said:
*offtopic*
Just shooting out in the dark here, why gingers? I know a few that are actually hott -- i'm actually dating one.
*/offtopic*
*offtopic*
Simply because there are morons who discriminate against random groups.  I could easily have said people of the Jewish faith or decent, or Muslims - but I tire of repeating myself and wanted a new example.
Half (or all but 3) of my family on my mothers side are gingers, and it's a bit of a shock for my family I don't have red hair at the least.
*/offtopic*

shiroun":3ud02zvt said:
At any rate, I believe that there should be a requiem for the family. Two lesbians should be able to adopt a female if they are a stable family with a good income. Same thing for males (with male babies).
Wait, I'm confused.
Are you attempting to say that gay men should only have male babies?  And lesbians only a female?  A gay couple, let's say Bill and George, wouldn't -or couldn't- adopt, raise, and nurture a little girl?

-Oddly enough a lot of homophobic people would be more terrorfied of - wait am I spelling terrorfied wrong or is not technically a word?  Damn spell check... where was I? Ahh, yes.. *ahem*, oddly enough a lot of homophobic people would be more terrorfied (!) of gay couples involved with children of the same sex.
What with the idea that all gay men are child molesters and all lesbians are sex craved man haters.

And personally I think income is over rated.
I know several people who are poor with kids, some of them - yes - taken in from other family members, and legally adopted in some cases.  Sure the kid has hand me downs, and the cheese is of the government variety - but I don't think financials even matter in the current system - here at the very least.  If not it shouldn't anywhere else.

second_crimson":3ud02zvt said:
Where is the proof that gay men or women cannot rear a competent healthy child? In a system that allows ONE parent to rear a child
Considering that argument is half effective.
Since in some regions a single parent can't adopt a child.  They can only raise if they are a biological parent/guardian (IE: an uncle), or if the kid is adopted, half the adopting party recently died - if you get my drift.

-
Oh and Wyatt (who posted while I was >:\) no.  I will not shoot a Commander.
Besides I think we have similar friends :x
 
People are getting up in arms of little things in this thread, no one has said gay people shouldn't be able to adopt.

-Gay people should be allowed to adopt.
-Children would be much better off with loving gay parents that whatever other unhealthy environment.
-Having gay parents doesn't mean you will turn out gay.

What family/environment/race/background you come from does not determine where you end up. That's because we are humans not robots. Eventually we reach the maturity to make our own decisions and we are responsible for own choices. Where we end up in life is a result of us. That being said you can't deny parents have a big influence over a child. I'm not suggesting that if a child has an abusive father he will in turn definitely end up as an abusive father. But studies show it is a lot more like. That being said some people won’t make the mistakes their parents made, they aren't their parents. Would you say that he wouldn't be better off in a healthy family environment? Parents are people, people make mistakes, every parent is going to stuff up somewhere. All they can do is try their best.

(as I've read many studies that suggest kids grow up to have more successful love lifes when they have both a male and a female rolemodel in their lives).

I have strong views on this based on my own experience. I don't know any of your personal situations but our views are going to relate to that. If you had a bad childhood I'm sorry and I don't want to offend anyone. Yet that help shaped who you are today, for better or for worse. I'm not saying if you have gay parents or a single parent you will turn out bad. I have a heterosexual mum and dad, I'm a single child, I like in a somewhat middle class family with middle class friends. People might say it's perfect but of course this is definitely not, and never is, the case. My mum is way too overprotective and I think if got mothered too much. Why do I say this? Until recently I had never developed courage, and 'manly' skills, I was really sensitive, I couldn't handle other people's opinions, I wanted freedom from the over-protectiveness. Then there's my dad who never taught me and skills and yet calls me useless because 'all I do all day is sit at the computer'. He has no social skills whatsoever and I have never been exposed to anything social growing up. He was a terrible teacher and I hated doing anything with him because he would just get angry and make me upset. Sure he did his best and I understand everything about him knowing what his parents and experience were like.

What I'm getting at is that I ended up sensitive, caring, nice, 'feminine'. I lacked 'masculine' traits such as being able to take action, handle emotions. A healthy person whether male or female needs a balance. Anyone can be too nice that they get walked over and can't handle criticism (me), but obviously there are lots of jerks out there. Your parents don't determine how you end up because you have many other influences on your life and ultimately you decide where you end up. Still have role models that are either both balances, or a caring loving role model as well as a stronger confident role model are desirable. These don't even have to be male/female or even parents. Even if you have them you may not take influence from them. Still some people will never agree with me because they just view all this as personality traits.

My opinions aren't based on traditional values, they don't come from my parents directly, they don't come from any religion because I'm not religious, it is more based on modern 'spirituality' and 'psychology' (I’ve read a lot on this topic, and I want to be a psychologist, I’m by no means qualified and I will probably change my beliefs throughout life) and my own experience. I really wanted to make myself clear because I brought it up, although it was unfair to place it on same sex couples.

Actually, the gay and lesbian community is acutely aware that sexual polarity is independent of gender.

No one is perfect; no one is expected to be. Equality is great, I believe in it. Women and men should have the same rights. However I think feminism has confused some people. Equality is not sameness. There is always polarity and it is not dependant on genre. My arguments could be completely false is this is all based on our DNA.

Single parents can raise a child well, so can same sex couples, so can heterosexual couples. All I'm suggesting is that it's healthy to have balanced role models.

My friend has the strictest, most middle-class and "perfect" parents ever. He's gay.

The society norm of the view for what are the perfect parents is bull. It's stereotyping. You can be too strict, and there will be so much going on behind the scenes no person outside of that environment will really see the truth (hasn't homosexuality proven to be in the genes anyway). It's the same as stereotyping anyone, or when people say that I will ace a test without any effort because I'm smart even though I put a huge amount of working into preparing myself. I disagree with lots of norms in society. Work to pay bills and nothing else. Work now so you can retire later. Go through school, go to college, get a good job, but a house, look after it, have kids, wait till after the kids are grown up to enjoy your life, go in debt, work to pay off all your material goods, you life is always on hold. No, no, no. If that's what you want to do fine, but I think we should live in the moment and follow our passions. Do what we really want regardless of what people think or want from us. That's off on a tangent but it gets my point accross.

Nothing in life is ever ideal, a safe and caring environment is far more important that anything else. All of us who voice our opinions are saying what we believe, yet that is determined by our own experiences. It's like we are all wearing different colour sunglasses that we view the world with, and no one can see eye to eye, "if only they saw it in THIS colour" we say. It's ok for people to disagree sometimes, they are voicing what they thing is right, it just depends what you focus on. I think it's important to be able to hold contradicting idea in our minds, then make our own decisions. Extremely homophobic people aren’t looking at the big picture. Some of us just like to explore and look at contradicting sides of the issue, but then stick by what we believe in.

Ok that was a long rant and probably off topic for the most part, but it brings up a lot of issues I feel strongly about. I have homework I’m supposed to be doing and if I put this much effort into it I would have literally finished by now, and then some :P
 
I see no harm in having homosexual couples to adopt a child. If there is freedom of choice, then there should also be applicable here. Have the freedom to choose if you want to adopt a child and be able to, with no gender or choice discrimination.
 
Venetia":2r79v08n said:
Seems like this is more of an argument at a brick wall than a debate :P

Haha yeah :P No one is going to come out any say 'OMG GAYS SHOULDNT B ABLE 2 ADOPT!!1!'. And if they did they would be imediately hunted down and killed :P
 
I swear, back when I was still new there would've been 4 pages by now... and it would be evenly split!!

Perhaps if I get bored I will blitz a post of all sorts of reasons for gays not to adopt, simply for the sake of argument.

Since no rule states you HAVE to agree with your post, and you can simply post for the sake of debate I may call out some of these fairly one sided opinions, including my own here... and I will do so badly :(
So damn it, someone help me not fail!  Someone argue against me!
 
You should've picked a more controversial topic, sixty. I think everyone agrees with you, or else everyone thinks too highly of you to debate. C'mon you religious Christians, fight back!

Ven-Dog said:
Perhaps we should repost this on a Yay Extreme Rightist Orthodox Bible Thumpers Forum.

Yes please.

EDIT:
Wyatt said:
My other friend, who walked in home to find his dad screwing his friend's dad, is straight as a really straight thing in a 2 dimensional plane where everything was straight.

I would give that kid a hug, he seriously needs it.
 
The Great Terror":3a1aihje said:
Frankly the whole parents modeling masculinity and femininity and sexuality in general is a bunch of left field horse shit.  Freud is shit, guys, a pile of greek referenced shit that conservatives usually mock except when it comes to homosexuality.  It assumes that what we consider masculine and feminine is a natural outgrowth of human "nature" than an arbitrary cultural construct built by the prevailing winds of society.

Seriously do you really think you "learned" your sexuality... from mom and dad?  Granted they are models for intersex relations but so is everyone else in your life.  And to what degree is anything outside of yourself truly responsible for where you stick your penis?  And what of gay children that come from otherwise perfect heterosexual nuclear families?  Did their parents not model gender roles roles enough?  Does that suggestion at all sound ludicrous to you?

I ask the Moral Family Values community where the priorities lie in this issue.  Is it more important that a child be provided a stable loving home with responsible parents who model most behaviors necessary for a happy and healthy life, or that little adoption Johnny knows the proper socially acceptable place to stick his penis?  That is the essence of the issue on the most practical of levels.  If you are going to tell me a kid is better off bouncing around between foster homes and group housing within the crowd of abused and trashed children than being in a stable home with caring responsible adults who happen to be gay, then the priorities being operated under are fucked and are not in the interests of the child.  Rather they serve the interests of a few obsessed with the cosmetics of society.  A few who will likely not adopt themselves.
I apologize if I'm necroposting but I find this an interesting thread... so just to say given that parents rarely provide an actual role model for their children when it comes to sexual roles, you can toss the gender argument. What guidance they do give is verbal and the capability of a parent to relay that information is dependent on knowledge and communication, not their gender or sexual orientation.
 
The problem here is scope.  We have a gay marriage law on the books, but there are no laws governing divorce, which basically means that no law provides for child support, or custody in the event of a gay divorce.
 
Junk Man, that is pure silliness.  A new classification was not created by the MASJC or the CASJC.  Simply put homosexual marriages are recognized as marriages under the laws of those respective states.  If you have a marriage you dissolve it with a divorce.  That goes without saying.  Divorce laws need not be changed.  A marriage is a marriage after all.  What argument can you think of to treat a gay divorce any differently?  Do you think child support payments are sex specific? Please explain.
 
I'm a Christian and I don't have a problem with gay/lesbian couples adopting. It's not the "natural" way of things, but what is these days? And besides, I'm sure the home of two loving gay/lesbian people is better for the child then some group home with 15 siblings.
 
sixtyandaquarter":267livcx said:
I swear, back when I was still new there would've been 4 pages by now... and it would be evenly split!!

Perhaps if I get bored I will blitz a post of all sorts of reasons for gays not to adopt, simply for the sake of argument.

Since no rule states you HAVE to agree with your post, and you can simply post for the sake of debate I may call out some of these fairly one sided opinions, including my own here... and I will do so badly :(
So damn it, someone help me not fail!  Someone argue against me!

Perhaps, sixty, you should instead be celebrating the lack of agrument against you. More people are, on this subject at least, vocal towards the side of (forgive me) freedom and open-minded opportunity.
 

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