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Incest

moog

Sponsor

Who said that murdering was bad? Killing another person only seems bad to us because it has been embedded into our brains. But who said killing is horrible. I never got that. Same with incest.

You cannot be serious.

If incest is ok, then murder is ok.

What? These are two totally differant comparable objects. You cannot possibly be serious to catagorize these two together. Incest is not that big of a deal. If two people commit it together, so be it. Its not hurting anyone. Like Diss said, if you murder someone you are taking away from them.

I think you are being sarcastic but if not then I seriously want to know what has been implemented in your brain!
 
Originally, the laws prohibiting incest and adultery in general had more to do with making it easy to determine who inherited property or land within a family structure.  Legitimate heirs were needed and when one person slept with another family member and had a child or just with another adult and had a child, there would be confusion as to who gets to inherit.  Who is the true heir?

As far as Biblical laws against incest, these were for mostly the same reasons, but back in the very beginning with Adam and Eve, you have to consider the fact that human DNA was pure and free of the contaminations that we have today.  If you took a human being from a thousand years ago and compared them to a human being today, the human from a thousand years ago would not have the impurities that we have today.  They wouldn't have the presence of synthetic chemicals or anything else like we do today.  For Christian people, it should be understood that as humans populated the planet, the bloodline became less and less pure over time due to the activities of specific people.  Altering DNA and creating the possibility of birth defects is a lot easier to do, especially when there are people interbreeding with each other.  You take a weak person and breed them with another weak person and you generally get an even weaker person.  If the human bloodline was pure to begin with (if you believe God created Adam & Eve, etc.), then it would make sense for them to intermarry up until the point where birth defects started showing up, at which time it was outlawed for the good of everyone and helped prevent the weakening of the species.

To comment on people in Europe "manipulating" people into having large families, that's crazy.  People had large families years ago for a number of reasons, such as helping on the farm or in the family business (labor the parents didn't have to pay for), to make sure there was a legitimate heir, and to guard against not having anyone to take care of them in their old age.  Children used to be put to doing something constructive as soon as they could walk and that's probably how I'll be with my kids.  My niece was helping wash dishes when she wasn't quite 4 years old.  My stepdad has about 6 brothers and sisters and all were expected to help keep the house clean and work in the garden, etc.  I don't think anyone was "manipulated" into having a large family; they had large families because there was a legitimate need to have more children in order to survive.  Large families have dropped off since the end of the farming era and the beginning of the industrial era and the usage of oil as a source of energy and for no other reason.  It's not due to any decline in religious influence at all and to believe such is ludicrous.
 
Murder removes life from the world while willful incest does no such thing.
So? What does that have to do with murder being decided as being bad? Murder is unwilling death. But willing death is just as bad. The person who killed the one who wanted to die will still go to jail(in America. I don't know about other countries).

How is willing incest not bad if willful death is?



What? These are two totally differant comparable objects. You cannot possibly be serious to catagorize these two together. Incest is not that big of a deal. If two people commit it together, so be it. Its not hurting anyone. Like Diss said, if you murder someone you are taking away from them.

I think you are being sarcastic but if not then I seriously want to know what has been implemented in your brain!
I am serious. What is in my brain is curiosity. I have always been attracted to death. I don't fear it as much as other people do. I am not gonna say that I wanna die, but I'm not gonna be upset if it happened. Of course they are two different things, but who decided that they were bad? How is it that we say incest is ok willingly, but willful death isn't? How is a non-participated death different from non-participated incest? I don't see how its naturally in our brain. If its natural, why wouldn't the idea of incest be natural? That also is towards homosexuality.

Yes, two different subjects. Some people see incest as a bad thing, others don't. Why is death a bad thing? Your removing something, I know. But if it doesn't affect you, why would it matter.

What if you found out your brother and your sister were doing it? Would that be ok? People's respect for your family will drop. Plus, your ok with it. Your friends would find out that your ok with it. Not only is your rep bad, there is no respect for you or your family, and your life won't be the happiest. You can try to live it happily, but it won't be easy. Is that ok?

So how is murder any different? Personally, when I hear that someone died, I don't give a shi*. As long as I doesn't affect me, I don't care. Someone was murder. Not my loss. But then there is a murder in my family. My life is struck hard. I can try to be happy, but it will be hard.

How are they different? In the idea that death removes and incest doesn't do anything, Ok, I see where your coming from. But in sense of how they affect people is pretty much the same. This also goes for homosexuality. The only thing different about that, is that there are too many supporters to make it seem like a bad thing. But, if it isn't so bad, why is it such a big deal. Take out christian beliefs. No bible. Besides that, why is it so bad? Its not natural. For you to say it is would mean that incest should be too. Death being a bad thing is natural. Try to hurt a animal and watch it flee. Natural. Death is bad. So why isn't incest or homosexuality?

(Sorry for repeating myself so many times. I just read it and noticed. Its almost 4 AM and I just got home from a party.)
 
thelivingphoenix":1grk08x3 said:
To comment on people in Europe "manipulating" people into having large families, that's crazy.  People had large families years ago for a number of reasons, such as helping on the farm or in the family business (labor the parents didn't have to pay for), to make sure there was a legitimate heir, and to guard against not having anyone to take care of them in their old age.  Children used to be put to doing something constructive as soon as they could walk and that's probably how I'll be with my kids.  My niece was helping wash dishes when she wasn't quite 4 years old.  My stepdad has about 6 brothers and sisters and all were expected to help keep the house clean and work in the garden, etc.  I don't think anyone was "manipulated" into having a large family; they had large families because there was a legitimate need to have more children in order to survive.  Large families have dropped off since the end of the farming era and the beginning of the industrial era and the usage of oil as a source of energy and for no other reason.  It's not due to any decline in religious influence at all and to believe such is ludicrous.

You're talking about exactly what I'm referring to.

In the point of view of the common person, they believed that they were having kids to help out around the farm etc.  And for all practical purposes, that's what happened.  Families would have kids in the double digit numbers for free labour.

It just so happened that it was also very advantageous for the ruling class if the commoners bred like rabbits, so it was actively encouraged.  If a man has a large family to support and a lot of work to do, he's less likely to travel or rebel against the ruling power.  The commoners didn't realize that they were doing exactly what their government at the time wanted them to do - exactly the thing that kept them in the lower class.

Diaforetikos":1grk08x3 said:
Murder removes life from the world while willful incest does no such thing.
So? What does that have to do with murder being decided as being bad? Murder is unwilling death. But willing death is just as bad. The person who killed the one who wanted to die will still go to jail(in America. I don't know about other countries).

How is willing incest not bad if willful death is?

Willful death isn't bad.  If a person has a real reason to want to kill themselves (or be killed) I have no problem.  I can't think of a logical reason as to why I should object to it.

Just to clarify... A good reason is something like "I'm going to survive for three months in horrible agony oh god kill me now", not "wah my parents don't understand meeee \\_-;;;"

Diaforetikos":1grk08x3 said:
What if you found out your brother and your sister were doing it? Would that be ok? People's respect for your family will drop. Plus, your ok with it. Your friends would find out that your ok with it. Not only is your rep bad, there is no respect for you or your family, and your life won't be the happiest. You can try to live it happily, but it won't be easy. Is that ok?

You're talking about cultural consequences, not natural ones.  It is quite possible that a culture exists, has existed, or will exist where the opposite of everything you said is true - people's respect for your family will increase due to sexual involvement between your brother and sister, etc etc.

Besides, I generally don't care what other people think about my life.  I'm concerned with what is right, not with what others think.

Diaforetikos":1grk08x3 said:
Besides that, why is it so bad? Its not natural. For you to say it is would mean that incest should be too. Death being a bad thing is natural. Try to hurt a animal and watch it flee. Natural. Death is bad. So why isn't incest or homosexuality?

Let's assume you're right for a minute.  I'll cede every point that you've made to you for the sake of argument.

So what?

Even if it's, as you say' not natural', why is that a valid reason not to do it?  Where is the logical connection between "X is an unnatural act" and "we should not do X"?

Simply saying "IT'S UNNATURAL" doesn't mean that a person shouldn't do it.
 

tai

Member

Ah, incest. I fully support it.

I'm not encouraging it, just supporting it.

I don't see anything unique about it.
I don't see anything wrong with it.
 
Here's my thoughts. If you wanna bone your sister/mother/brother/aunt/etc....and they wanna get down too......go ahead.

But it's not for me. I just can't see myself having any sexual contact with anyone I'm related too.

But maybe if I had a hot sister...
 
According to your morals. But mine say, and this is exactly how I feel about homosexuality, that while it's not for me, I really don't care about what anyone else out there is doing sexually.

Also, the hot sister part was a joke.

But honestly, for all we know, incest between individuals with strong genetics could lead to the next step in our evolution, assuming there was still a steady intake of genetic resources from outside the family. I mean, who knows, maybe the reason we've been so stagnant as a species is because of the fact that we're so strict on sexuality.

Many people seem to think that because we're the smartest animals around that we've got it all right. But look around you, all of our ideas are destroying our planet's enviornment. Who's to say, this might not also be the case with the evolution of our species?

And let's set it straight. Not every child that comes about from an incestual relationship is going to be genetically weak. While it is commonly known that incest can lead to messed up babies, that's not always the case. But in the real world, plenty of messed up kids are born to families that aren't practicing in incest. Will we now try to say that these kids should have never seen the light of day; that if their parents had known that their child could be retarded in anyway, that they should have decided not to go through with birth. Of course, we won't! Well, I won't.

So let a few people sleep with their family members. If anything, it might help our world by increasing in the number of sterile children and adults and decreasing our population in what is more of a humane way.
 
Didn't read the entire topic. But incest is a natural taboo. In history, when we developed language, we were able to put up laws we had to follow. The first subjects we arranged rules for were hunting and incest. If all people followed those rules about hunting and incest, the chances of surviving increased alot. So from that viewpoint incest is totally not in our nature.
 
In a certain way they still exist. Those rules aren't the same anymore, but the core of it is still found in most of our society's. For example: All the male clan members had to participate in hunting. If you didn't participate, you wouldn't get any food. today: if you don't work, you don't get a lot of money. Ofcourse, this is relative simple example, i don't think i can explain the more complex ones in English. Fact is that a result incest means less chance of survival ( incest = more chance on deformations and we are less resistant for disseases) and therefore against our nature. Simply survival of the fittest.
 
Survival of the fittest doesn't currently have anything to do with humans, otherwise doctors wouldn't have jobs.
 

tai

Member

(i've been waiting for someone to reply to this)
Calibre":2odod358 said:
Incest is wrong depending on how hot (or not) your sister is.
lets take out the 'sister' part, the phrase will go like this
  • A relationship is wrong depending on how hot (or not) your girlfriend is.
What does hotness have to do with anything? We know that, all else aside, there is nothing wrong with having a "hot" partner (or not). So, with that in mind, let us apply that to your statement. We get this:
  • Incest with your sister is wrong. or
    Incest with your sister is not wrong.
You're going to have to explain yourself better for us to start considering your thoughts.

gRaViJa":2odod358 said:
Didn't read the entire topic. But incest is a natural taboo. In history, when we developed language, we were able to put up laws we had to follow. The first subjects we arranged rules for were hunting and incest. If all people followed those rules about hunting and incest, the chances of surviving increased alot. So from that viewpoint incest is totally not in our nature.
Reference please? I'd like to know how 'incest' got way up to the top with food-gathering, and what proof they have that avoiding incest increases survival rate.
gRaViJa":2odod358 said:
Fact is that a result incest means less chance of survival ( incest = more chance on deformations and we are less resistant for disseases) and therefore against our nature. Simply survival of the fittest.
Show me the facts.
 

tai

Member

I know Ryeful was, but it didn't seem that way to me in Calibre's case. If you were, my apologies, but make it clear next time....
 
eharper256":eisuxqaw said:
In all perfect honesty, I believe that its been scientifically proven that having it off with your sister is actually only about twice as likely to produce genetic defects. And in fact, long lines of incest can actually improve and strengthen your families gene pool, so long as some outside source refreshes it from time to time and the weak or mutant examples do not reproduce. First Cousins, Uncles and other such relatives make for about a 20-30% increase in issues, or something suchlike, and things like Second Cousins are almost entirely safe, with only about a 4% increase in the chance that your childrens genetics will go spazz out. Don't quote me on that stuff, but at least thats my understanding.

I can understand your point of view here. People breed dogs incestually to create purer breeds of the species. Its effect probably won't be so beneficial on humans but it might have some of the same effects. But then again, I have about minimum intelligence in the biological field, so don't quote me on this.

Anyway, I have no problems with incest if the couple has a method of preventing reproduction (other than frequent, routine abortions). I like to be open minded towards different types of relationships, but honestly I can't say that I won't be repulsed by the image of a friend or acquaintance french kissing his sister. But that is their business. If they keep it in private locations, I'm fine with it; although we should be careful about breaking social barriers and prewritten laws on incest. Because, even without producing children, it could increase the amount of incestually produced children due to the larger group of people that will be more openly engaging in incest.
 

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