God Condemns Two-Thirds of World to Hell

[arcthemonkey]

I should confess that I don't know a whole lot of things about Islam, only the attitudes and testimonies of the muslims I know. I thought I made it pretty clear that I was basing my statements on a limited knowledge base.

It is clear, however, that few of you know what I mean by a profound religious experiance, and can't really understand how it does not apply to Islam.

Unfortunately I don't have the time to reply in depth to basically anything here, but I would like to share a thought that I had earlier.

I have no reason to believe that people aren't given the chance for salvation even after they die. I don't know of any scripture or otherwise that states in even uncertain language that one cannot ask Jesus for salvation even at their judgement. However, even as far as I have no reason to believe such is the case, I don't have much evidence to the contary, either. I believe that God is merciful, but I also believe he is just.

I guess I should phrase this to say that I have no reason to believe that just because someone is not a christian when they die, they are condemned to hell automatically. Whether such is the case or no, I'm not taking the chance.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Will this god forgive a man who is being a Christian just to avoid hell?
That's funny... if I would be god, that would be enough reason to make you fry but that's me you know? :p

 

[arcthemonkey]

That's not what I was saying.

At all.

 

[Grandor]

I'm a Catholic myself but I don't agree fully with it. You could be a savage living on a southern pacific island and never have heard of God or Jesus..

But that's what everyone (who's religious) says about their own religions. I say my religion is true, and someone disagrees, and says theirs is =/ Well, there is only one sure way to find out :D

Finally another Catholic. It seems to me that everyone nowadays is converting to something else but they used to be Catholic. And your right. Their will be no solution to this topic. Everyone thinks their religions are right and that everyone is going to hell, bad karma, downgrading to a lower form, or whatever they believe is going to happen when they die for not believing that specific religion. Like you said their is only one way to find out.

 

[Rhazdel]

It is clear, however, that few of you know what I mean by a profound religious experiance, and can't really understand how it does not apply to Islam.

This is merely a matter of opinion. You can't argue that "my faith is deeper than yours", because there is no way to prove either side. Just because you don't believe that other religions' holy experiences are on the same level as what you believe does not automatically discredit them. They probably feel the same about your religion's experiences.

There are other religions out there, even if you don't like what they have to say. My original point was that I think there is an overblown response to "OMG, God is condemning 2/3 of the world!", because every religion condemns at least 2/3 of the world, by that standard. What happens if, when a Christian dies and he finds himself standing before Vishnu? Likewise, what happens when a Hindu dies and finds himself before Jesus?

 

[apocalypse]

In my opinion, and the opinion of the Islamic faith, everyone is judged firstly according to their "fitrah" in arabic, meaning natural inclination.

In that sense, every child is told to be born a muslim (natural submitter to God), even the trees, the animals, etc, are all muslim in the literal sense. Since they conform to the will of God without any objection.

The difference is that mankind reaches puberty they learn to think and gain free-will to make their own decisions, and these are those in Islam that will be questioned.

So if someone where to die a child, or die without ever even knowing the relations (the torah, gospel, qur'an), they would be questioned about their natural inclination to believe in one God. So if someone living in a jungle somewhere, were to see the sun, and deeply believe in ignorance that it was his creator, and worship it alone, he would have accomplished monotheism (tawheed) and not be punished.

The difference is one hears about Islam, knows it well, and chooses to deny it after it was made clear to them, these are those that are acountable. The word in arabic for disbeliever is kafir (meaning to literally cover up the truth). Meaning the truth was made manisfest to them, and they didn't bother to check it, or practice it.

All Islam calls to in its root is like that of the torat, meaning to worship God alone without any partner, do good deeds, and depend on God. That's all we really can do as humans, knowing salvation without actions like Christians in my opinion breeds arrogance, and certainty which abolishes that deep sincerity in loving/fearing one's Lord the Creator.

Can the Christian really feel remorse from his sins, crying to his Lord in the late hours of the night, seeking nearness to Him? I really can't see how Christianity took a complete turn around from Judaism, it used to be belief in one God, with righteous actions. The actions and rituals may change with time, but how can the core belief and creed change from one God in Heaven, to God on Earth sacrificing himself for our sins.

What about those prophets and nations of the past, are they condemned to hell because they didn't accept Jesus? If not, then why does God "need" to change the creed and have us now rely on accepting that event?

In relation to the topic question at hand, from an Islamic point of view, nobody can say such and such is in heaven, rather we hope for sincerity, fear hypocritism, and trust in God. So many Muslims may be in the hellfire due to their sins and what their hearts conceal, and many non-Muslims may enter heaven due to their dying upon the fitrah and monotheism in God. Basically the most important thing for Muslims in monotheism, not associating any partners with God, since this basic belief is the very nature of man. That if you believe in God, you should believe He is one without partner. Just look at the greek mythology gods, always fighting and disputing (kinda reminds you of modern day politics :D).

But hey, that's just my input! Peace

 

[MusicOrsenX]

Let's think out of the box here, say life did exist outside of our galaxy.. where is their heaven and hell?

What if they too had loads of different religions and made conflicts and other acts of violence towards one another who would be correct then?

I say if you didn't hear it from the horses mouth never believe it.

Being an atheist myself i personally think Star Ocean 3 makes about as much sense as any religious story.

Its logical and is technically possible, we could create our own world inside a computer if we wanted to, possibly make it evolve and most definitly make our own story up for this particular creation.

-Sorry if this is of 0 relevance to this whole thread.

 

[Andy6000]

Let's think out of the box here, say life did exist outside of our galaxy.. where is their heaven and hell?

What if they too had loads of different religions and made conflicts and other acts of violence towards one another who would be correct then?

I say if you didn't hear it from the horses mouth never believe it.

Being an atheist myself i personally think Star Ocean 3 makes about as much sense as any religious story.

Its logical and is technically possible, we could create our own world inside a computer if we wanted to, possibly make it evolve and most definitly make our own story up for this particular creation.

-Sorry if this is of 0 relevance to this whole thread.

You've changed if you're on to saying sorry now my friend.

Anywho... Everyone always believes their own religion is right and others are wrong... I mean, if there was reasonable doubt involved, that wouldn't really be faith now would it? You can't jump off the bandwagon to say maybe and then jump back on (as evidenced by all our fine religious viewpoints in this thread alone), so you're all stuck believing deeply that everyone is going to be condemned, and the best possible solution is for everyone to shut their damn mouths about it.

Because really, all we're doing here is pointing out... I suppose irony? But it's not really changing anyone's minds that were actually dedicated in the first place, though I suppose ruining the beliefs of those with half a mind to see outside the box is reason enough for religious harrassment: oh wait, that's the viewpoint of door to door preaching in hopes of conversion. DON'T DO DRUGS.

 

[Vanilla!!!]

just about every religion says that if you aren't a part of that religion you will suffer eternal consequences (except Buddhists, because you can retry life over and over until you become Buddhist and 'get it right', so to speak).

I'm a Buddhist,and we don't think that you'll be punished just for not being Buddhist.You'll be punished for your actions.Buddhism would be kind of a "school" that teaches you how to do the right things.Even if you don't believe in Buddha's ideas,if you are a good person,you will reincarnate as a higher form of existance.If you act wrong...well,hope you don't reincarnate as an earthworm(not a joke)

 

[apocalypse]

I'm a Buddhist,and we don't think that you'll be punished just for not being Buddhist.You'll be punished for your actions.Buddhism would be kind of a "school" that teaches you how to do the right things.Even if you don't believe in Buddha's ideas,if you are a good person,you will reincarnate as a higher form of existance.If you act wrong...well,hope you don't reincarnate as an earthworm(not a joke)

What's wrong with earthworms, everyone loves a good earthworm now and then...

 

[lunarhiro2002]

Eh, did i miss the memo or something?

When did God condem 2/3rds of the earth?

I think that you can find out what God intends to do by reading the Bible. Everything else is conjecture.

 

[Rhazdel]

I'm a Buddhist,and we don't think that you'll be punished just for not being Buddhist.You'll be punished for your actions.Buddhism would be kind of a "school" that teaches you how to do the right things.Even if you don't believe in Buddha's ideas,if you are a good person,you will reincarnate as a higher form of existance.If you act wrong...well,hope you don't reincarnate as an earthworm(not a joke)

Traditional Buddhist belief is that Buddhists seek enlightenment and must forego all earthy desires that distract from reaching this enlightenment. When a Buddhist reaches total enlightenment (nirvana), he or she breaks the cycle of reincarnation and his or her spirit joins with the universal energies of the cosmos.

The rest that don't reach nirvana are reincarnated as another form of life based on their actions on Earth.

Sounds a little like the concept of "Heaven and Hell", no?

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

The bible is just like a phone book to me, do you really think that if there's a supreme entity she/he or it even would probably waste his/her/its time telling us what to write in a book? C'mon, there's an universe out there, and you know? this universe even if you don't believe is actually QUITE vast...
Now, I doubt a god would be damning 2/3 of earth and blah blah blah.
The way I see it is God is the nepenthe maintaining all the universal rules in place, he someone said longtime ago, "the watchmaker" of the universe.
From there to say he is the old man with a beard watching us in every move and saying "don't do this, don't do that'.. I doubt it.
Geez, I can't believe there's people who still believing these jokes.

 

[apocalypse]

Whoever said God was a man, or a man with a beard at that. I don't believe that's in the Bible at all, rather the way Christians have catagorised him.

Furthermore, God created us with a purpose, life would seem pretty meaningless to simply be without any real final purpose, and then die. From the womb to the tomb seems a pretty good sumary of life.

Therefore, how can't we have a purpose, and if there were some divine purpose, it would entail that God should reveal it to us, that we may understand and be guided.

I don't think any of the prohibitions and commandments that God has given us are other than to righly guide us to be prosperous and content within ourselves, verily in the remembrance of God do hearts truly find rest. God does not need us, nor do we benefit Him in the least. Rather we benefit from our devotion, obeidiance, etc.

Think of a micro example like your father telling you not to eat food off the floor when your young, telling you not to run with scissors, etc. These may seem like simple rules and rulings, but in the end, it's someone more knowledgable and intelligent, telling us what right, teaching us, and taking care of us.

 

[Hisuwashi]

Finally another Catholic. It seems to me that everyone nowadays is converting to something else but they used to be Catholic. And your right. Their will be no solution to this topic. Everyone thinks their religions are right and that everyone is going to hell, bad karma, downgrading to a lower form, or whatever they believe is going to happen when they die for not believing that specific religion. Like you said their is only one way to find out.

Thanks, I'd agree with you there.

Anyway, I don't see God as a man as such, but rather an omnipresent force. I suppose that's what intended by the Holy Spirit, to show that God is always present in our lives....

 

[apocalypse]

For me, God is the creator, originator of the heavens and the earth, and all that lie between them. Master over all, and far removed from His creation, but at the same time He is closer to them then their jugular vein (by way of His knowledge, and love).

Islamically speaking, the holy spirit than decended to help guide and enlighten people is the angel Gabriel, who was sent to Mary mother of Jesus, and to the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon them all).

So in arabic the word rooh (meaning spirit) refers to angel Jibril (Gabriel). I know the Christians took this concept to mean a part of God, but don't know how Jews view it according to their scripture.

 

[RobF]

Why do so many people consider it "God condemning 2/3's to Hell". If you accept that there is a God and he created us and the other basic tenets of the christian faith (if for nothing else but this debate).....Then you have to realize that God originally had all of mankind on the path to heaven. But in the first few chapters of the first book of the bible, you see MAN (not God) seperating himself and basically condemning himself to hell.

I know that when it comes to religion, you hear a million analogies and thought-processes...but think of it this way: God builds Adam a house. After a few weeks, Adam sets the house on fire. (Now imagine it's a very slow burning house...as in, it's still burning today in 2007) Then Adam settles down and starts making babies with Eve. These babies are (logically) born in the burning house. Therefore, due to no choice of their own, these children and their children, and their children find themselves in danger of the fire. So God calls out to man and tells him to come towards Him and he will be safe. Finally, God (in the form of Christ Jesus) actually enters the house and creates a doorway to Himself and the safety outside.

So in the aftermath, is it really God "condemning" the majority of earth to hell, or is it just a bunch of people who don't realize the roof's on fire?

 

[Andy6000]

Why do so many people consider it "God condemning 2/3's to Hell". If you accept that there is a God and he created us and the other basic tenets of the christian faith (if for nothing else but this debate).....Then you have to realize that God originally had all of mankind on the path to heaven. But in the first few chapters of the first book of the bible, you see MAN (not God) seperating himself and basically condemning himself to hell.

I know that when it comes to religion, you hear a million analogies and thought-processes...but think of it this way: God builds Adam a house. After a few weeks, Adam sets the house on fire. (Now imagine it's a very slow burning house...as in, it's still burning today in 2007) Then Adam settles down and starts making babies with Eve. These babies are (logically) born in the burning house. Therefore, due to no choice of their own, these children and their children, and their children find themselves in danger of the fire. So God calls out to man and tells him to come towards Him and he will be safe. Finally, God (in the form of Christ Jesus) actually enters the house and creates a doorway to Himself and the safety outside.

So in the aftermath, is it really God "condemning" the majority of earth to hell, or is it just a bunch of people who don't realize the roof's on fire?

This'd be a good analogy if God wasn't omnipotent. Actually it's a pretty good analogy regardless.

But the fact that God gave them curiosity, instead of A. just making it PLAIN 'no touching tree', or B. Not leaving the fucking tree in plain godamn sight, or even C. no curiosity pretty much leads to the inevitability of, you guessed it, them touching the tree. Kind of like a house, if someone lives in it, FOREVER, eventually they might light it on fire completely by accident, and God, instead of putting the fire out and being like, "hey now, be more careful" (it's not like this metaphorical fire is dangerous to him), he/she/it plays a game of 'hey here's some hard to believe shit to swallow, sure this door LOOKS like it's leading off a cliff, but fall for a couple seconds and you'll find out it's got AWESOME TRAMPOLINE PARADISE at the bottom.

 

[KhaoticErase]

Didn't read anything else, but would just like to say:

God doesn't condemn ANYBODY; they condemn THEMSELVES.

 

[WeissRaben]

Didn't read anything else, but would just like to say:

God doesn't condemn ANYBODY; they condemn THEMSELVES.

Right...and then, I'd use Ockam Razor.
What's simpler?
A god which first create for love and then punish you if you don't follow rules written by MEN?
Or a god which punish you if you do something evil?