Final Fantasy 12

[Diogo //Skyfusion//]

Well, I was indeed comparing it to other FF games, but my point is, FFXII takes a more western RPG route in focusing more in the gameplay and less on non-interactive cutscenes.

Sorry, but to me they were quite easy and a bit on the boring side. Maybe it's just cause I've had to adapt to Phantasy Star/Shin Megami Tensei difficulty while playing them lately, but FFXII seemed ridiculously easy overall.

I found the elite marks to be ridiculously hard the first time you get them. The normal marks not so much, but still challenging enough to make the battles fun.

If I want exploration, I'll play an MMORPG and get the added bonus of being able to do so with friends and have a blast doing so.

And the added "bonus" of dealing with n00bs, exp stealers, hours waiting for bosses to spawn, sucky and overly simple battle systems and grinding that takes 10x longer than in FFXII. That's the entire point of FFXII's gameplay, according to the developers, to offer a MMO experience without all the crap that online play can bring to the overall experience.

If I want character customization, I'll play Shin Megami Tensei, Pokemon, or again, a MMORPG. All three do that way better than FFXII. I spent infinitely more time customizing my party in Nocturne than in FFXII, and had much more fun doing so.

Nonetheless, that's one of the things FFXII tries to focus on. I could also say that, in my opinion, if I wanted a story in a game, I would play games like Vagrant Story instead of most of the FF series, but it still doesn't change the fact that most FFs are story-driven on purpose.

And most of the generic MMORPGs are far worse in character costumisation than FFXII.

but when you need to grind non-random encounters make the process that much more tedious.

I think totally the opposite. Random Encounters, in my opinion, only had unneeded loading times, plus they ruin the exploration and immersion of a game. More grinding = more loading time. Seamless encounters + gambits = Perfect for boring grind.

Sorry, I didn't get what exactly made the bosses good. I've seen far better bosses in my time playing RPGs.

Other RPGs having far better bosses does not ruins my point. FFXII is a game where it focus more on bosses and less on mini-games. Either this philosophy was well implemented or not as well as other games, it is irrelevant. I much prefer fighting bosses - because they take more potential of the battle system than all those filler monsters that die in one hit do - than playing crappy mini-games that in no way improve the main battle system.

FFXII might be flawed, but gameplay-wise, it was a step into the right direction IMO.

 

[Lazyguy077]

I agree, they really went overboard with the sidequests. It's nice if the game some bonus quests, but this game just had way too many. To do everything in FF7 takes you about 70-80 hours, but in FF12 it takes almost 200. It's ridiculous, and on top of that, the hunts or whatever seemed like an excuse for the poor story and way underdeveloped characters.

That's exactly what it is. It's a perfect excuse to distract you from the fact that the story's terrible.

I just think that they can make these games if they want. They're losing their original fanbase and getting people who don't know about Final Fantasy 2 and 4 where everything was fun and didn't need to be drawn before me. It ruins where my imagination would have fit. I'm just ashamed of what is becoming of my favorite game series.

At least, if you're going to make something that isn't a Final Fantasy, which XII is not, make it and call it something else and place a "from the makers of Final Fantasy" on it... and realize that we are loyal to the name "Square" rather than the name "Final Fantasy".

Also, whoever was the fan of western RPGs... you should realize why a lot of us are disappointed in this game. We're Eastern RPG fans, where FF originates. We don't get Final Fantasy like we expected. We get a half-assed version of a western RPG with some eastern rpg elements.

Annoying loading times? You're talking of ONLY 3d rpgs from the psx on... the majority of FF took place on SNES and NES. How about bring up a valid argument about what made them bad, because they were the highpoint in RPG gaming, especially for this series. FFVII stuck to its roots even though it had that so-called "annoying" loading time. "Gosh darn that four second loading time is so... GRRR"...

But, I'm aware that Square's not gonna make what they should make. They're going to make games that will get them more money. A load of American casual gamers love this new style of FF, whereas Square's original fanbase is saying... "F YOU" because they're ruining something that was great. PERIOD.

This isn't really even about FFXII anymore, anyway. This is about the fans of Eastern RPGs against fans of Western RPGs, ultimately. That's what this argument breaks down to, if you realize it. And eastern fans should have more pull because we were fans of ff longer, because up until XII (XI and X-2 don't even qualify) they've been EASTERN rpgs (whereas X starting having a FEW western elements.) They're switching RPG types due to the money they'll make making western ones.
~b~

 

[Anonymous]

Lazyman, you can't say the entire game is made up of sidequests and mark hunting when both the sidequests and mark hunting are entirely optional. Just going straight through the storyline, not doing any of the extra stuff, takes you through about 70% of the areas, and can take anywhere between 30-40 hours for an average gamer. If an RPG delivers 30 hours of gameplay, even WITH sidequests, it's made up for the cost of the game and thus is worth buying.

Also, the concept of 'saving the world' isn't even introduced into FFXII, there is never a time when anyone says that their objective is to save the world. The objective is, loosely, to restore peace to Dalmasca and push the Empire out of their land. There are, obviously, subobjectives. Vaan wants to experience the world as a Sky-Pirate, Penelo wants to protect Vaan, Ashe wants revenge, Basch wants to honor his fallen king, Balthier and Fran.. well.

 

[Lazyguy077]

Lazyman, you can't say the entire game is made up of sidequests and mark hunting when both the sidequests and mark hunting are entirely optional. Just going straight through the storyline, not doing any of the extra stuff, takes you through about 70% of the areas, and can take anywhere between 30-40 hours for an average gamer. If an RPG delivers 30 hours of gameplay, even WITH sidequests, it's made up for the cost of the game and thus is worth buying.

Also, the concept of 'saving the world' isn't even introduced into FFXII, there is never a time when anyone says that their objective is to save the world. The objective is, loosely, to restore peace to Dalmasca and push the Empire out of their land. There are, obviously, subobjectives. Vaan wants to experience the world as a Sky-Pirate, Penelo wants to protect Vaan, Ashe wants revenge, Basch wants to honor his fallen king, Balthier and Fran.. well.

30-40 hours without the marks? Are you kidding? Yeah, maybe if your autism is acting up and you have severe brain damage. That game was cake, dude... What are you, five? The side quests aren't supposed to be logner than the game itself. If I had done every side quest in that stupid game, I'd still be sitting there playing the thing. Right after I rig up a shotgun to automatically blow my brains out as soon as I beat the final boss, because I needed it because I went into a sullen, boring video-game coma...

Yeah, and there were, out of the 30 hours of play, which is pathetic, mind you... there were... maybe 20-30 minutes worth of story, at best? Most of the time of this game was taken up in training, not in actual story. I've said it before, and I will say it again. XII is a sham of an FF.

No, FFVII was a FF. Worth its cost, and I'd know, because I have played that game more than anyone EVER has. I've bought that game more times than anyone, as well. I have gone through 4 copies of this game. If I played all the way through this with every sidequest and EVERYTHING done... I would range around... 85 hours? THAT is a game. THAT is a ff.

Phantasy Star IV, if you can find it, is worth its money, no matter if you are a collector and just want to have it, or if you actually want to play it. It's a good game, 60 or more hours of gaming and story WITH NO SIDE-QUESTS included... AWESOME game... Sad to say, PSIV was more of a FF than FFXII was, and that's sad.

Last but not least, it's LazyGUY, thanks...
~b~

 

[Diogo //Skyfusion//]

That's exactly what it is. It's a perfect excuse to distract you from the fact that the story's terrible.

The reason why the story is under-developed is because FFXII's director/ writer left the project at the middle of its production. And that was the same guy who wrote the stories for FFT, Ogre Battle and Vagrant Story, and was behind many of the game mechanics including the Marks system.

I'm just ashamed of what is becoming of my favorite game series.

It's absurd to claim that one FF ruins the entire series when every single FF is drastically different from each other, and it will be even more so from now on.

which XII is not

FFXII sticks more to the roots of the FF series than FFVII, FFVIII and FFX do. OMG!!

We get a half-assed version of a western RPG with some eastern rpg elements.

Do you know what's really half-assed? Useless loading times between encounters, screen breaks that ruin immersion, little exploration, little customisation, few bosses, little dificulty and crappy, poorly-designed mini-games.

FFXII's team actually worked hard to have the world far more grand, explorable and huge than in previous FFs. They actually worked hard to have seamless encounters and good graphics at the same time, without lag. They even DECREASED the quality of the graphics for the sake of better gameplay. They actually put effort into making a decent sidequest system instead of creating a lame mini-game in 5 minutes (although even FFXII had its share of lame mini-games).

How about bring up a valid argument about what made them bad, because they were the highpoint in RPG gaming, especially for this series.

The random encounters never were, and never will be the "highpoint" of the FF series. To quote the creator of the FF series, Sakaguchi: "If the first FF was done today, it would feature a massive, explorable world and seamless monster encounters."

FFIX was originally not supposed to have them, but that was not possible. They wanted to go away with them with FFX as well, but technical limitations and time restrains prevented that to happen.

Besides, they suck. EVERYTHING positive about the random encounters can be acchieved in more seamless and much superior encounter systems, without suffering from unneeded loading times or destroying the immersion that RPGs try hard to acchieve.

The random encounters, much like the traditional turn-based systems, are a NES/ SNES system that was vital for its time because of the hardware. The current hardware allows to create much superior systems that have all the charm while still not featuring all the flaws and problems.

They're going to make games that will get them more money.

If that was the case, they would just recycle everything instead of actually trying new things.

SE lost a lot of money with FFXII's production. If FFXII was just a recycle of the previous FFs like you wanted it to be, it would have been released two years before, and a FFXIII would be released for ps2 as well. In other words? Double the money in sells and less money wasted on development.

So as you can see, you are wrong. They did not decided to go to the safe route. Not like they did with FFs before FFXI.

A load of American casual gamers love this new style of FF

What new style of FF? FFX-2's style is totally different than FFXII's. FFXIII's will be totally different. FFvXIII's will be totally different. Wait, since when were the FF series stuck to one style?

whereas Square's original fanbase is saying... "F YOU" because they're ruining something that was great. PERIOD.

Or improving what was old.

They're switching RPG types due to the money they'll make making western ones.

1) They do not make more money this way.
2) FFXIII is going back to a more Eastern style, as you can see.
3) Who determines the style of each FF are the developers, not the business men. It was the developers who decided to make FFXII feel like a MMO. Not to get more money, but because they WANTED it to feel like one. And even Sakaguchi, the creator of the FF series, aproved. If the developers wanted, they could give a totally different style to FFXII.

Oh, and the first FF was one of the most western FFs in the series. It took countless elements from western RPGs.

 

[holloway]

30-40 hours without the marks? Are you kidding? Yeah, maybe if your autism is acting up and you have severe brain damage. That game was cake, dude... What are you, five?

Those of us who don't just race through it in like 3 days generally clock up 20+ hours on the main story. I'm at the top of that Lighthouse and at 28 hours, and that's with minimal sidequests done yet (I cut off the ten hours I spent fucking around with marks off my time just then).

Square have changed game style in all FFs since 8. 8 was the last flat background FF, 9 had actual 3D backgrounds, 10 was just a huge change, X-2 was nothing like old ones, XI was an MMORPG and XII was centred more on gameplay and the world than story. And so far XIII is looking like X meets XII. So how can you say Square are following a similar style lazyguy?

And if you remember the early FFS, rather than saying "nothing like old!!" you'll remember the stories were pretty shite at first, with the focus on the RPG side. To me, XII is far closer to that than VI-X were.

Yeah, and there were, out of the 30 hours of play, which is pathetic, mind you... there were... maybe 20-30 minutes worth of story, at best? Most of the time of this game was taken up in training, not in actual story. I've said it before, and I will say it again. XII is a sham of an FF.

No, FFVII was a FF. Worth its cost, and I'd know, because I have played that game more than anyone EVER has. I've bought that game more times than anyone, as well. I have gone through 4 copies of this game. If I played all the way through this with every sidequest and EVERYTHING done... I would range around... 85 hours? THAT is a game. THAT is a ff.

Lol, what? You are fucking kidding right? If you want to finish EVERYTHING in FFXII, you're looking at 150+ hours, so in no why is FFVII going to be more than that. VII's story was long, but not well executed. Please tell me WHY Cloud felt compelled to save the world? Sephiroth to destroy it with him still on it? Think about it- the first 10 or so hours of the game have NOTHING to do with the actual story. So that "30-40" hours of story you are on about is quite wrong given that's "20-30" of actual game from when the story starts, then there is a lot of time spent just wandering. In FFXII the story wasn't made to seem longer with shitty minigames like hunting a key underwater (seriously, what the fuck? A key in the ocean you have to find- and is like 20 times the size of your players?) or climbing a huge tower.

 

[Freyr]

FFXII sticks more to the roots of the FF series than FFVII, FFVIII and FFX do.

If by "roots" you mean an underdeveloped story equivalent to the FFs of the 80's, then yeah, this game really sticks to the roots to its series. Gameplay-wise it's not much like FF, except the battle system. It really isn't nothing new, the same old system only without screen transitions.

They actually put effort into making a decent sidequest system instead of creating a lame mini-game in 5 minutes (although even FFXII had its share of lame mini-games).

The Mark Hunting isn't even a decent system. It's really poor. They made up those stupid stories ("a giant frog ate my wife's ring lol, go kill it") in what, like five minutes? Some monsters are impossible to find without looking it up on the net. For example, how the hell would the player ever be able to find that T-Rex (its name was Pylraster or something) thingy in front of the Pharos? The game never gave any clue where it was. That's just a pathetic way to add some more hours to the total playing time.

 

[Diogo //Skyfusion//]

If by "roots" you mean an underdeveloped story equivalent to the FFs of the 80's, then yeah, this game really sticks to the roots to its series. Gameplay-wise it's not much like FF, except the battle system. It really isn't nothing new, the same old system only without screen transitions.

I meant that the gameplay and setting is far closed to the roots of the series. It brings back a lot of forgotten gameplay like buyable magic, multi-hit attacks, old-school equipment systems with their respective old-school effects (axes deal random damage, katanas with high chance to have stronger attacks...), etc. The setting of the world is extremely similar to the one used in old-school FFs as well, mainly when it comes to the style of fantasy, and even the story's style in focusing more on the events and less on the characters,and featuring no real, overpowered, plotcentered main character.

The Mark Hunting isn't even a decent system. It's really poor.

Opinion.

They made up those stupid stories ("a giant frog ate my wife's ring lol, go kill it") in what, like five minutes?

Is that a problem? Those stories were just there to give an explanation for why you should hunt the mobs, and some stories were actually decent and developed further some NPCs. FFXII has probable the most well-developed NPC characters in the FF series.

Some monsters are impossible to find without looking it up on the net. For example, how the hell would the player ever be able to find that T-Rex (its name was Pylraster or something) thingy in front of the Pharos? The game never gave any clue where it was. That's just a pathetic way to add some more hours to the total playing time.

Pylraster was a bad example, as it is extremely easy to find. I do agree that the conditions for some mobs to spawn suck, but that hardly ruins the marks system as a whole.

 

[Lazyguy077]

I meant that the gameplay and setting is far closed to the roots of the series. It brings back a lot of forgotten gameplay like buyable magic, multi-hit attacks, old-school equipment systems with their respective old-school effects (axes deal random damage, katanas with high chance to have stronger attacks...), etc. The setting of the world is extremely similar to the one used in old-school FFs as well, mainly when it comes to the style of fantasy, and even the story's style in focusing more on the events and less on the characters,and featuring no real, overpowered, plotcentered main character.


Opinion.


Is that a problem? Those stories were just there to give an explanation for why you should hunt the mobs, and some stories were actually decent and developed further some NPCs. FFXII has probable the most well-developed NPC characters in the FF series.


Pylraster was a bad example, as it is extremely easy to find. I do agree that the conditions for some mobs to spawn suck, but that hardly ruins the marks system as a whole.

This was supposed to be a discussion, not a stupid argument. I will state we all are simply voicing our opinions. No reason to begin attacking Freyr and I. However, FFXII is still a disappointment, fanboy. Get to know this. A real FF fan knows that your statements possess as much validity in this discussion as any statement the government of the United States has about the rest of our world. Now, before your mother reads your posts, go wash your mouth out with soap....

Less development into the characters? I already stated FFXII was a western-based RPG. So I'm not even going to re-state it. If you don't know what western RPG means, go look it up, or something.

Furthermore, buyable magic without any explanation is totally ridiculous. Have you forgotten magic WAS ALSO buyable in VII? It was customizable for your characters in the form of a rune stone called a "materia". Also, don't think certain characters weren't supposed to have certain abilities. Because some had better base abilities, and based on who you supplied the materia with determined how much damage the spell did. It's far more complex than XII.

VII had a Science fiction feel to it. No bad thing there. Crazy 80's hair on characters? CHOICE STYLE!

XII? Vaan? Gay. Uh, Ivalice? I already played that game. It was called Final Fantasy Tactics. Ever heard of it? Phenomenal game right there, too. Didn't follow suit to FF series, but neither did Mystic Quest or VIII, and they were both good. You just have to get more involved in the games to enjoy them. I never said VII was longer than XII. I wouldn't want it to be. XII was too long if you do EVERY SINGLE THING, because they gave me busy work throughout the whole game. MMORPG intensions without the online multiplayer vibe for XII? Okay. Uh, that's a silly idea. Think about it. MMORPG with the MO is just a Massive Role-Playing Game, which really just meant to me it was too long for no good reason. The game was boring and a complete waste of DVD-disc space, every copy of it made, too.

Those of us who don't just race through it in like 3 days generally clock up 20+ hours on the main story. I'm at the top of that Lighthouse and at 28 hours, and that's with minimal sidequests done yet (I cut off the ten hours I spent fucking around with marks off my time just then).

Square have changed game style in all FFs since 8. 8 was the last flat background FF, 9 had actual 3D backgrounds, 10 was just a huge change, X-2 was nothing like old ones, XI was an MMORPG and XII was centred more on gameplay and the world than story. And so far XIII is looking like X meets XII. So how can you say Square are following a similar style lazyguy?

And if you remember the early FFS, rather than saying "nothing like old!!" you'll remember the stories were pretty shite at first, with the focus on the RPG side. To me, XII is far closer to that than VI-X were.


Lol, what? You are fucking kidding right? If you want to finish EVERYTHING in FFXII, you're looking at 150+ hours, so in no why is FFVII going to be more than that. VII's story was long, but not well executed. Please tell me WHY Cloud felt compelled to save the world? Sephiroth to destroy it with him still on it? Think about it- the first 10 or so hours of the game have NOTHING to do with the actual story. So that "30-40" hours of story you are on about is quite wrong given that's "20-30" of actual game from when the story starts, then there is a lot of time spent just wandering. In FFXII the story wasn't made to seem longer with shitty minigames like hunting a key underwater (seriously, what the fuck? A key in the ocean you have to find- and is like 20 times the size of your players?) or climbing a huge tower.

IV had a great story, great battle system... What else did I need? VII still at least had the same battle system and possessed an enthralling storyline that compelled the best and most loyal fan base of any FF game I have ever seen. You are going to say IV was bad, too? Am I trapped inside the Sealab 2021 episode "Bizarro"? VI was phenomenal, story and other related aspects of the game. II was great, but it only had a mediocre storyline. I was successful enough to keep the series alive. XII's success isn't through the fact it's a good game or anything. its the name "Final Fantasy" that allows that game to have even been produced. I have played every Final Fantasy game, even the ones for GB and the ports to the GBA and DS. I'm familiar with how VII is compared to those, and VII is phenomenally greater than XII ever has been, dude. I don't know how you don't see that. Also, even if someday XII's saled were greater than VII, I'll let you know why. Just because something is popular, that doesn't make it good. Look at Halo. Same FPS I put in my SNES back in 1994.

Although you cursed for no apparent reason, I will still explain everything for which your equested an answer in a calm fashion as would be expected.

Sephiroth wanted to absorb the life energy of the planet, which is why I assumed he wanted to reside on the thing when it was destroyed. Cloud felt that he failed to kill Sephiroth back in Nibelheim five years ago, and it just so happened that he saved the world while having to take care of Seph. And, let's think how hard it would have been for a player to have seen that key in that atmospehere otherwise? They made it large so that it coukld be noticed. Remember the distortion of colors on the screen as you played underwater. It's no supposed to be realistic. It is a video game. If I wanted to play real life, I'd walk outside after turning off the television. See, now you're no longer making valid points. You're nitpicking. There was a lead-in to the story. At least Final Fantasy VII had a stroy, unlike your oh-so-holy FFXII which had NONE. NONE. The ONLY thing I was happy about were the cinematic graphics. EVERYTHING ELSE disappointed me. Graphics in-game were great, but... still... no story? and the lack of a story did not get made up for in graphics. The graphics weren't THAT good. If you want graphics and no story, go play Halo. Stay out of my gaming genre. Also, you're merely pointing out VII's flaws. I don't have the time to point out all of XII's flaws. I'll be late for work, which I don't have until tomorrow. Give me ONE good side, OTHER than graphics, to XII?
~b~

 

[Diogo //Skyfusion//]

This was supposed to be a discussion, not a stupid argument. No reason to begin attacking Freyr and I.

Now, before your mother reads your posts, go wash your mouth out with soap....

Nice.

I already stated FFXII was a western-based RPG.

So did I.

It's far more complex than XII.

The materia system is not complex. Deep, yes, but fairly simple, much like the License Grid. But FFXII did not only have the license grid, it also had the gambit's system. Two customisation systems instead of one, making FFXII more complex in this area (although not by much).

I'm familiar with how VII is compared to those, and VII is phenomenally greater than XII ever has been, dude. I don't know how you don't see that.

I, for example, feel that FFVII, despite being an excellent game for its era, is fairly mediocre compared to FFXII among many other great RPGs. I don't see what is so hard for so many people to understand that not everyone thinks FFVII is "godly".

At least Final Fantasy VII had a stroy, unlike your oh-so-holy FFXII which had NONE. NONE.

Because the entire plot regarding the rise and fall of FFXII's most important story character, Vayne Solidor, and his and his empire's effects into other characters, nations, and how all that changed the entire future of Ivalice, is not a story. The several rebellions and how they were dealt with, the themes of freedom, lust for power and revenge, the political conflicts between characters, mostly between Archadians, the manipulation of the gods through mankind's history, and how Vayne's actions changed the entire Ivalice's future, either directly, or indirectly.

FFXII's story is excellent, IMO. Conceps and characters underdeveloped? Yes. But that's because the writer left in the middle of its production. Nonetheless, even though he did not completed the story, what he left was great. If he had stayed involved into the project until the end, I dare say FFXII's plot would surpass FFT's and Vagrant Story's.

Give me ONE good side, OTHER than graphics, to XII?

I'll do that:
- Music is extremely fitting, and technically much superior compared to anything in the FF series before. Not as memorable, unfortunately.
- The english script is beautiful.
- The event direction is of extremely high quality.
- The world is HUGE and hugely detailed. Grand, big variety of different cultures, and with an entire bestiary dedicated to detail even further the world: its monsters, its history, its nations.
- The towns are HUGE.
- The art style is gorgeous, from most (not all) of the character's designs (the Judgemasters as good examples), to every single town, field or dungeon.
- The battles are more seamless than ever.
- System that makes grinding faster, battles even more seamless, and adds a unique kind of tactical planning into the game.
- A lot of optional content that adds more exploration and difficulty to the game.
- Subtly. From the story, to the art style, to the music, the game is filled with subtle details, and everytime you replay it, you only find new things you haven't before.
- Maturity. Ivalice is not only full of geniously subtle details, it is also a very mature world, whose plot lacks countless of juvenile concepts that plague most JRPGs including FFVII. And FFXII managed to be mature without being overly dark.

FFXII might be flawed (battle system not polished enough, plot and characters not developed enough), but to claim that the only good thing about it are its graphics, is obviously an exaggeration.

 

[Andy6000]

This topic is fucking stupid. If you can't figure out how to discuss this game without insulting each other (and lazy guy, I don't care what you call an opinion, you're insulting the shit out of people because they disagree with your opinion on definitions), then you shouldn't be fucking talking about it at all.

I might open this in a couple of days, hopefully by then we might take some courses in actual debate rather than this tripe.

AFTER OPENING: guess how long it's going to be closed next time you all decide to fuck up

 

[benos]

http://hundsteg.se/Erik/GCmap3.jpg

Progressing Map for the great crystal.

lol at you complaining. Just a game. I do get mad at it when i end up having ultimate deaths just for falling into a trap or critical monster hits. Damn you Necrohol Of Nabuidus!

 

[gryphon666]

OK pretty much I'm seeing quite a bit of anti ff12 feelings in here which is all good coz people are entitled to their own opinions. How I feel about it? Well personally I find it to be a highly enjoyable game. For me it doesn't detract from the ff spirit since I've only played ff9, ff8 and ff10 and only finished 9 thouroughly.
What I liked about 12 was the free roaming style of battle and exploration. Coming from a slightly different background of rpgs such as KOTOR, Jade Empire and Sudeki style games I found myself alot more familiar with how the battles played out and I didn't mind the loss of control of my party to AI coz I could just have fun with whatever character I wanted as my party leader at that point. Grinding is always dull but it's essential in RPGs pretty much so I'm not bothered by it. I think the license board system is a solid idea but it lacked restrictions and paths for creating characters of a specific type. I had filled it for all characters about 80 hours into the game on the Phon Coast which my friend thought was impressive... I don't know if it actually is but in essence all my characters were the same at this point, just some higher levels than others. Essentially this system would be better if you focused on diverse classes with sub classes (for example you want to be a white mage so that's your basis and then you level up to another class choice where you choose a sub set such as a white mage who specialises in magic that cripples opponents or a tanking paladin type character) to provide replayability rather than building everyone the same person each time. This way there's more tactics involved in choosing who to use and when for maximum effect rather than just playing through with the party you think looks the best.
Aside from this I loved the free roaming 3d environments coz it gave a sense of adventuring to the game and the fact that i could do everything at my own pace and leave areas before a boss battles etc to be random and do something else for a while was fun. So I'm still playing it and loving it despite what others may think.

 

[benos]

Try to space out your words. TLTR.

 

[Celes]

I haven't played with it yet, but I really enjoyed the videos, trailers and pictures what I've seen. The Espers are so cool!!! My favourite characters are Balthier and Fran so far.

 

[benos]

I'm around level 51 and 52 on my characters. I keep going until i'm level 70 so i can finish off Pharos Tower, and choose the right sigils. Even if i looked at gamefaqs walkthoughs, somehow, i don't which ones are right.

 

[kintaruo]

I wanted to talk about this game, although I realize the topic has sorta been dead for a while.  Please though, guys, don't get into a flame war.  It's easy enough to talk about games without going crazy.

Anyway, both sides have very valid points.  Does the story suck?  Well, not completely, but it definitely isn't great.  It does have a lot of good IDEAS in it, and, if it was seen out to its finish, probably would have been a great story.  But a story is all about the implementation, not about the ideas behind it.  I can come up with a million ideas for a story, but if I can't write them in a compelling fashion, then it is still crap. 

The thing is, you can easily tell when the writer left -- the game's story starts off great, but ends up taking a severe turn for the worst (in terms of quality and amount).  It's not an excuse for the game having very minimal and relatively cliched (towards the end) story.  But, it is understandable.

Also, with regard to the characters, I believe Basch was supposed to be the main character, but the higher ups at Square decided he was too western.  That's why Vaan is underdeveloped -- he wasn't even supposed to be the main character.

Finally, the game play and world remained intact, and it is very, very, solid in those regards.  There was just a ton of life in the game in general -- everywhere you went felt alive, and that's the way games should be.  It really does a good job immersing you.  The gambit system is fun, too. 

Also, the game was kind of hard and actually required some strategy (or well placed mist attacks) unless you powerleveled (which was easy to do in this game). 

Overall though, it is a fun but very flawed game, especially in regard to the story.  The world is really developed though, and that is something interesting itself.  If they could have just made the narrative a little bit stronger, I can guarantee it would rank among many peoples' favorites.

 

[Achantion]

FFxII was a dissepoint ment ...
i beat vain (final boss) at lvl 45 or 35 don't know anymore ..
didn't touch my contrller and i didn't equip the buble belt and i didn't die .. *sigh* ...
the game starts of GREAT but the storie weakens ones you'v been to that ice esper Matheus or something ...
after that i became one of the worsed FF ever ...

 

[Lithium]

I considered it a very poorly done game compared to the other final fantasies. I liked the beginning but after about halfway it just seemed to die. Don't get me wrong, it's got it's good points, it's gorgeous for one, the music is nice and fitting even though there's nothing horribly memorable in there, and I like the "new" battle system, but sadly the story just isn't that great, it's decent, but when you compare it to others in the series there's just not enough substance, not enough "meat" so to speak. They could have done so much more, you take any political story like that and you can fill it with some many more twists and turns. I also was dissapointed in the characters, the story's main character is Vaan and yet for some reason he's got no point whatsoever, he's just along for the ride. I did however like the cities, they felt much more like real one's than in past games.

 

[benos]

I hope FF13 is a little better, heard it has something to do crystals, again, doesn't worry me alot, as long as it has something different. So i hope to love that female version of cloud. "Lightning" i know is just a nickname. And about being set in Ivalice. I don't mind it at all, even so it had been set in fft, ffta and ffta2. So it's a 3d version of tactics but a ffxi style gameplay. Or what not.

Starting the game again at Barhiem Passage, and hopefully double level up around 20 or 30 before fighting the spider queen.
I stuffed up by getting my equipment, i did not open that castle chest, I'm trying to get the zodiac spear. I must of messed up when getting my stuff back. Oh well. I hope to try to find a way to get to get the other ultimate weapons.