FF7

[G-man]

lol I hate it because squaresoft said "okay guys let's make FF7, about a spiky haired- my hate begins there, and thank you Seph did nothing lol never realized that XD

 

[Rye]

What are you talking about, may I ask? O.o Cause, sorry, that made no sense.

 

[Marcus]

Final Fantasy 7 was actually a good game... in a completely different way than what most people say it is. You can write and rave about how "brilliant" it was but in my opinion, it was the biggest piece of RPG satire in the history of games. They set up cliches only to tear them down and make fun of them. Everything from it's over-the-top villains to the terribly stereotypical commentary on race and religion, the game was comedy gold yet anime fans seemed to have deemed it as "serious" when it seriously wasn't.

You begin the game as a purple suit wearing skinny kid who wields a bigass sword while tearing down a powerplant... within 30 minutes you get a lot of commentary on the state of modern living, the futility (and hypocracy) of eco-terrorists, and urbanization. As the game continues, you get characters with various racial sub-types like the emotionless "wasps" in the higher parts of midgard, the cross-dressing (and gay bath scene) with cloud, gambling, drunkenness, the "turks" (who pretty much serve as an oddball take on modern bounty hunters), an irate Irishman (Cid), and a jive-talking blackman (come on... I don't need to tell you this do I?). Once you finally reach the end of the game, it dives into the realm of "bogus conspiracy theories" where Cloud's memory is revealed to be tainted and everything up to that point was the meddling of Hojo and the inner "circle" of Shinra.

Really, the game's story was rdiiculous. How many people even got the references to Midgard and Nibleheim (Nifleheimr). I also loved their take on the military (marching, faceless drones who all look the same) and the completely over-the-top action scenes. Escaping from that one naval base while that one weapon was attacking and getting into a slap fight with Scarlet was pure Hollywood cheese as was landing in midgard via parachute.

As an RPG, it was pretty above average. Lots of fun mini-games like snowboarding, submarine, motorcycle, and mount pheonix game (it sucked you couldn't play it again, it was a badass real time strategy game), the materia system worked well (but there should have been more difference in character stats) and the game's world was humerous enough. I loved the touch of the "Japanese Island" where they were in a "battle" with the main continent. It was a good game, but it wasn't a "ZOMG GODLY GAME WITH WORLDS BEST STORYLINE EVAH" because too me, it was pretty much "Bad anime in 3D."

 

[G-man]

I mean I didn't like it from the start, and I'm saying I agree with Seph doing nothing

 

[Petros]

The only thing I didn't like was Sephiroth. I feel his reason for trying to destroy/whatever you want to call it the world was weak..

]

Okay most stereotypical villains just want to blow the world to smithereens, that would be a weak. He intends to wound the planet just enough without destroying it so all the planet's energy that goes into healing it would flow through him, essentially making him a God with the power of the lifestream running through him.

 

[Diogo //Skyfusion//]

]

Okay most stereotypical villains just want to blow the world to smithereens, that would be a weak. He intends to wound the planet just enough without destroying it so all the planet's energy that goes into healing it would flow through him, essentially making him a God with the power of the lifestream running through him.

Most stereotypical villains want to blow the world OR become gods. FFV's villain wanted to unify back the worlds so he could have control of a power called void, becoming a god himself; FFVI's villain was a madman who succeded into becoming a tyrant god, Ultimecia wanted to become a goddess who could manipulate time, Kuja wanted to become a god until he found he was mortal, Seymour wanted to manipulate Sin and become a god, and even Vayne, the most believable and unique villain in the main FF series, wanted to use the nethicite to bring back freedom to his race from the fake gods and become a god (or at least a more down-to-earth version of it, an absolute ruler) himself.

 

[G-man]

which brings me back around to Seph being cliche

 

[Rain]

Are you ever going to stop trolling?

Seriously, this topic was made to just to bad mouth a game that 90% of the people on this board like... that's trolling at it's most basic. I'm suprised this hasn't been closed yet :/

 

[G-man]

What exactly is trolling? And I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, Final Fantasy seemed like a good game to me at first, but I eventually saw through the haze, 90% people liking this game does not affect my opinion in anyway, I'm simply stating FF7 was one of Squaresofts weaker games.

 

[Rain]

What exactly is trolling? And I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, Final Fantasy seemed like a good game to me at first, but I eventually saw through the haze, 90% people liking this game does not affect my opinion in anyway, I'm simply stating FF7 was one of Squaresofts weaker games.

Ok, well had you stated you opinion in an already existing Final Fantasy thread then yeah, it would have been fine, but the fact you made a thread just to tell the world of your distaste towards Final Fantasy 7 is completely pointless and a waste of web space ... also, trolling.


Also, I didn't say that because 90% of people like it you should like it as well, or that it should change your opinion... I was using it to illustrate my point.

 

[G-man]

Hmm that does make sense, I did not make this title to show my distaste for the game, I made just as an overall dicussion for any FF's I just decided to start with 7 b\c of my dislike of it, but I should have been more specific in the title, but to show I'm truthful I'll leave FF7 alone....for now XD, and move on to FFX.....

 

[Zankoku no Yami]

Hmm that does make sense, I did not make this title to show my distaste for the game, I made just as an overall dicussion for any FF's I just decided to start with 7 b\c of my dislike of it, but I should have been more specific in the title, but to show I'm truthful I'll leave FF7 alone....for now XD, and move on to FFX.....

Dude, if this thread is called FF7 and its about any FF... well, dude, we have quite a number of other threads that DISCUSS the Final Fantasy series. Post in them instead of making a whole new one. I really don't think they are quite old enough to be concidered necroposting; but i could be wrong.

EDIT: Hmm... can't seem to find the FF one. Could have sworn there was a more recent one in these pages. But we really do have quite a number of threads discussing RPGs as it is. And how many times are we going to have these all around FF discussions? They always turn out the same.

EDIT: Okay, i was looking for the wrong name. Here is a good thread to talk about the different FFs if you wish.

Linkage: http://www.rmxp.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21560, bam.

 

[PINEDAXP]

Oh my God... I can't believe all the things I just read... FF7, is the Game that did evolved everything, I mean, it changed the whole thing... Cliches? none... cliches are so called because they've kept using them ever since... Seph and his "mother" taking over has been the main arguement used by FF haters for years.. Mainly because they cannot get the whole game... Tell me, did Spikey Haired Crono talked like Cloud? Did you see the Main Girl die in the beginning of the game? Did you see FMVs like those before? Limits? I mean... you judge things the way you want... but try to feel like when that whole trend on RPGS changed suddenly... And you'll see how things really are... Hating a game or not understanding it doesn't make it a bad game

 

[Diogo //Skyfusion//]

Oh my God... I can't believe all the things I just read... FF7, is the Game that did evolved everything, I mean, it changed the whole thing... Cliches? none... cliches are so called because they've kept using them ever since...

FFVII's story is filled with sci-fi movie cliches and anime cliches. Maybe they were a bit new to the RPG genre, but that was it.

It was a quality RPG that introducted the RPG genre to million of players. That's it. It hardly evolved anything in the genre, outside of the limit breaks and the use of FMVs. Some fans just think the story wasn't cliche back then because FFVII was their first RPG and they had ABSOLUTELY no experience in the genre or in Japanese animes before.

 

[Prexus]

FF7's story is pretty basic, once you break it down.

Reluctant Hero complex, joins forces with a small group, takes on a huge power. Villain separates himself from big power, threatens the world and Hero's love, Hero fights for revenge and wins unconditionally.

The problem with FF7 comes from how you get from one step to another. Why was Cloud, the reluctant hero, so willing to join AVALANCHE suddenly? How was a small group of terrorists able to thwart an Empire that nobody else could stop? Why was the Villain, who was once controlled by the Empire, suddenly able to succeed it and go on his own? Why was the Hero able to defeat the Villain if he was so powerful and such a huge threat?

Nothing changed between when Cloud gave Sephiroth the Black Materia, for no reason whatsoever, and when Cloud destroyed Sephiroth. So why was he suddenly able to do it, and not under Sephiroth's control?

It's this that makes FF7 not only cliche, but poorly presented cliche.

I admit there are hot spots in FF7. The battle system is pretty well balanced, no real way to -super power- your character, except by giving one character all the highest level materia which is perfectly legitimate. A Main character dying was pretty good, although in no way a new and exciting thing (FF4, how many characters died?) and whathave you.

The cliches are there, the problems are there, and the good stuff is there. Which easily explains why there are people who love it, people who hate it, and people in between.

 

[G-man]

Nice to get some support, but I don't want to troll so I just declare that out of all FF's, I think the best one is of course, FF6.

 

[Zankoku no Yami]

FF7's story is pretty basic, once you break it down.

Reluctant Hero complex, joins forces with a small group, takes on a huge power. Villain separates himself from big power, threatens the world and Hero's love, Hero fights for revenge and wins unconditionally.

The problem with FF7 comes from how you get from one step to another. Why was Cloud, the reluctant hero, so willing to join AVALANCHE suddenly? How was a small group of terrorists able to thwart an Empire that nobody else could stop? Why was the Villain, who was once controlled by the Empire, suddenly able to succeed it and go on his own? Why was the Hero able to defeat the Villain if he was so powerful and such a huge threat?

Nothing changed between when Cloud gave Sephiroth the Black Materia, for no reason whatsoever, and when Cloud destroyed Sephiroth. So why was he suddenly able to do it, and not under Sephiroth's control?

It's this that makes FF7 not only cliche, but poorly presented cliche.

I admit there are hot spots in FF7. The battle system is pretty well balanced, no real way to -super power- your character, except by giving one character all the highest level materia which is perfectly legitimate. A Main character dying was pretty good, although in no way a new and exciting thing (FF4, how many characters died?) and whathave you.

The cliches are there, the problems are there, and the good stuff is there. Which easily explains why there are people who love it, people who hate it, and people in between.

You ask "FF4 how many characters died?" i ask "FF4 how many characters died THEN CAME BACK?"

And the 'basics' of ANY story are cliched. You do realize, to make an original idea, you have to first take the cliches and use them as the basics? Tear down ANY story, no matter WHAT it is, and its cliched at its roots and basics. Because there is nothing new or original. As said before 'only new ways to tell them'. Its as simple as that.

Why was Cloud so willing to join avalanche? Remember the little skit with Zack? They were headed to Midgard to start over; but Zack died. Not only that, but Tifa, his old childhood friend, was part of AVALANCE. Why NOT join? Not only that, but look what Shinra did to Zack! That is more than reason enough.

The villian was being used as a geniue pig the entire time. He didnt just seperate; no, he realized what they were REALLY doing to both him and WHAT they did to his mother. Its revenge man.

Take just about ANY RPG or story; what do you got? A bunch of misfits who can supposedly do what an ENTIRE army can't. It usually comes down to just a group who saves teh day without the help of the armies available to them. So how can they do what others couldnt? Cuz thats the only way to make a story about heroes? I dunno. Its done in almost every case. It just works.

Sephiroth was never actually really controled by the Empire. No, he was just being used. He realized this, and abandoned them. Don't forget, he was the legendary SOLDIER, few stood a chance against him.

The hero didn't defeat the villian on his own. He had a team of... what, 8? The final, final battle was in certain condiditions and dont forget; who was the one who killed Sephiroth originally? That's right, Cloud. Cloud beat him the first time. That much, i am pretty sure, was part of Cloud's REAL memories, for Zack was knocked out at the time. So, why is it so suprising that Cloud couldn't beat him a second time?

Cliche's are merely the foundation for something far bigger. And FF7's storyline was far bigger than that; it was complex and had much depth to it. You just cant look at the cliche's alone when judging a story like that. Or any story today. If every last thing about the story is cliched, thats one thing; but in this case, the cliche's were only the foundation for a far bigger story.

Oh, and I was into Japanese anime for a good 3 years before FF7 came out and i didnt even GET FF7 until about 2000 (in which FF8 was my FIRST FF. Then after i loved it so much, i got 7). So no, back in those times, the ideas they used were not cliched. Because I had already watched a good majority of anime to know most Japanese cliches and sterotypes.

I will agree, many things were cliched; but the important parts of the story, weren't.

 

[Petros]

Well that was pretty much what I've tried to say all along so thank you for saying it better than I did.

Anyway, another thing, you said "Oh a hero who has a dark past, that's never been done before" well you can either have a hero with a happy light-hearted past/no relevant past at all or a person with a dark and mysterious past. So, if you're going to pick whichever one is better, shouldn't it be the one where you can actually add some story to it and make it interesting. Just saying "a dark past" is like saying oh, this story has a hero and a villain, man this is cliche!

 

[Celesinator]

I thought FFVII was really flat and boring. It really seemed like FFVI. I really did hate FF7 for an amount of years.. but came to like it. It's like... my 4th favorite or so. FFVI(Advance, not SNES, although the snes one was good, too, just not as. Seemed like they actually gave characters new personalities and Locke cursing... probably once.) and IV and IX are my favorites. They were really good for the time. FFX, V, and III are good, too. Liked them alot.

FFVII is and always will be mediocore, but it's not really all that bad. Just repetitive and a but... retarded at times (Cloud knew Aerith for 1 disk and yet he feels depressed. I wonder if he would be depressed if Tifa died. Tifa seems to impact him more.)

 

[EmuMaster2002]

Petros: FF9. Zidane has a pretty lighthearted past, and it was presented well. The dark past is a tired concept that everyone uses anyway.