Science Talk

[Zeriab]

What is infinity divided by infinity?

 

[dadevvtsvre]

infinity isn't a finite number (like many people seem to think) so it doesn't equal 1. infinity is a concept more than it is an actual number, so you can't really add, subtract, multiply and divide infinity like you can with real numbers. you'd also need to define infinity itself to really be able to work with it. the simple answer to that question is 'undefined' also i'm sure there's a more elegant solution out there.

 

[rieo]

infinity can be a number though. also infinity devided by infinity is the number 1 that is just common 3rd year algebra.

 

[dadevvtsvre]

also infinity devided by infinity is the number 1 that is just common 3rd year algebra.

whatever they taught you was wrong then

from this site:

First, I am going to define this axiom (assumption) that infinity divided by infinity is equal to one:

∞/∞ = 1

Since ∞ = ∞ + ∞, then we are going to substitute the first infinity in our axiom:

(∞ + ∞)/∞ = 1

The next step is to split this fraction into two fractions:

∞/∞ + ∞/∞ = 1

Next, substitute the axiom twice into the equation, we get:

1 + 1 = 1

Finally, this can be rewritten as:

2 = 1

Therefore, infinity divided by infinity is NOT equal to one. Instead we can get any real number to equal to one when we assume infinity divided by infinity is equal to one, so infinity divided by infinity is undefined.

 

[rieo]

i was speaking as if you considered infinity a basic integer with a limit and not an ongoing cycle. but yes you are right i agree.

 

[kyonides]

more than 99% of the universe's mass comes from nothing. empty space.

if you take empty space - no protons, neutrons, electrons, photons, neutrinos, waves, etc., just empty space - it would actually have mass. somehow, quantum fluctuations give nothing mass. this means that most of the mass in our bodies comes from the empty space in between atoms, not from neutrons and protons.

this could also mean that something can come from nothing, and voila, the big bang theory is validated! yaaay physics

No living thing can come out from nothing and no, our bodies have mass because of protons, neutrons, electrons and other particles, there's no real dark mass. Even gases tend to expand in space, because there's not enough gravitational force or angular motion in several places in deep space. So that means you can still find hydrogen there in low quantities or low density, but there IS something out there. Hydrogen even escapes from our atmosphere but we're still getting several millions of small portions of water from outer space in form of (small) meteors and rests of comets. If light cannot travel at a higher speed it's because there's still something out there that prevents it from hitting everything at a too high speed that could destroy any molecule or atom. Another real scientific fact is that the sun produces its light or solar wind by collapsing a bit at a specific rate every minute or second and expelling that (tons of) ejected mass as the solar wind itself. Our sun is getting smaller each day that passes!

I think his thoughts on how to demonstrate that infinity / infinity isn't equal to 1 is quite wrong. Any number divided by itself is equal to 1 no matter how big the number is. IF not, not even 1/1 could be equal to 1 but it is thanks to infinity itself.

 

[Ellie]

Infinity itself is not a number though. In reality there is no *known* limit - Infinity x Infinity = Infinity. The whole Infinity concept is pretty flawed and generally not useful in a lot of scientific equations; it's only real use is when showing something that *continues forever*.

 

[moog]

infinity can be a number though. also infinity devided by infinity is the number 1 that is just common 3rd year algebra.

u trollin boy?

 

[Zeriab]

I disagree that the infinity concept flawed.

The otter man is right, infinity is not a definite number and should not be treated as such.
It as a concept has its uses, but do not just say x = infinity and think you can treat it like every other variable.

Most 1=2 'proofs' and other such particularities are typically caused by either a hidden division by zero, undefined infinity operation or taking the square root of -1 as 1 rather than the imaginary number i.

 

[Lionel Tabris]

The answer is simple.
inf + inf = inf
inf - inf = inf
inf * inf = inf
inf / inf = inf

On another note, I'm thinking about a Sea of Dirac

 

[Zeriab]

The answer is simple.
inf + inf = inf
inf - inf = inf
inf * inf = inf
inf / inf = inf

On another note, I'm thinking about a Sea of Dirac

No...

inf + inf is inf
inf - inf is undefined
inf * inf is inf
inf / inf is undefined

 

[Lionel Tabris]

Hmm, that makes sense, At least I got 2/4 Correct!
Anyway, Watch Sci Fi Science! It's the best show ever! And It's related to science.

 

[moog]

inf - inf = inf

ahahah shit i lold

 

[candle]

shouldn't inf - inf = 0?

 

[dadevvtsvre]

shouldn't inf - inf = 0?

when you look at it, it makes sense. but ∞ - ∞ has to be undefined. it's impossible for it to equal zero.

if we were to assume ∞ - ∞ = 0, then to say

∞ - ∞ + 1 = 0 + 1

since ∞ + 1 = ∞ and 0 + 1 = 1, then we could simplify the equation and get

∞ - ∞ = 1

which it is most certainly not!

the whole question is pretty pointless in itself, anyway. infinity is not a number and it's difficult to treat it like it is. ∞ - ∞ isn't the same as asking 5 - 3 or 27 - 10. asking what ∞ - ∞ equals is like asking "if you have an infinite amount of apples and you take away an infinite amount of them, how many are left?" you could argue that the answer is 0, ∞, or any real number, but since the answer relies on the definition of what we're dealing with here, we leave it at 'undefined'.

 

[Zeriab]

*hugs dadev*

Good explanation :3

 

[moog]

shouldn't inf - inf = 0?

when you look at it, it makes sense. but ∞ - ∞ has to be undefined. it's impossible for it to equal zero.

if we were to assume ∞ - ∞ = 0, then to say

∞ - ∞ + 1 = 0 + 1

since ∞ + 1 = ∞ and 0 + 1 = 1, then we could simplify the equation and get

∞ - ∞ = 1

which it is most certainly not!

the whole question is pretty pointless in itself, anyway. infinity is not a number and it's difficult to treat it like it is. ∞ - ∞ isn't the same as asking 5 - 3 or 27 - 10. asking what ∞ - ∞ equals is like asking "if you have an infinite amount of apples and you take away an infinite amount of them, how many are left?" you could argue that the answer is 0, ∞, or any real number, but since the answer relies on the definition of what we're dealing with here, we leave it at 'undefined'.

i guess this is a pretty decent explanation

but im not sure it could be applied to all undefined numbers. imo i never understood why they didnt just develop some sort of value for finding values of infinity's equations. they made values for negative square roots (albeit its somewhat abstract as fuck) so i dont get why they couldnt just make a value for infinity

when i was in pre-cal i was dumb and assumed ∞ + ∞ = 2∞ lol

 

[Zeriab]

There are Surreal and Hyperreal numbers which I believe incorporate infinity in the number system as a quantity rather than a concept. I don't really know how they work so I may be wrong.

Another thing you may find interesting are Ordinal numbers which is about categorizing infinity in set theory. You know, with different kinds of infinity.

*hugs*

 

[moog]

yeah i remember learning about ordinal numbers, shit was really intriguing. i never learned much about the alternate infinity stuff though

 

[dadevvtsvre]

i really want to learn about that kind of abstract and complex math but the courses at my school move at such a glacial pace that it would take years before we moved past polynomial functions :X