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white|noise

onzephyr":hvhjqxeu said:
seven":hvhjqxeu said:
hi again guys.
I like some of the concepts unique to roguelikes (i.e. procedural generation, permadeath, complex interactions between mechanics) but the genre remains obscure because of a steep difficulty curve. My plan is to re-envision its better qualities while making it less esoteric: I hope to create a user-friendly UI, an intuitive control scheme, graphics, and level design that teaches through play, without losing too much of the genre's complex strategy and replay value. I don't know how close I'll get to that, but it should lead at least lead to an interesting prototype. More developments as they develop. :eek:

With you 100% on why the genre is great but remains niche. And with a goal like that i'll be checking back eager to try your game out. Good luck on the design goal!

Compared to big 3D shooters are a niche, but I've noticed that there are a lot of roguelikes coming out from indie developers and I see a lot of comments from people saying they love them. So the more the merrier.
 
Venetia":23d75mn4 said:
Hey Seven, I'd really like a chance to playtest a demo of this, but you posted a ZIP file containing your CAPX, when we're looking for you to link to your game itself, as an HTML file.

Basically you just export your game, and upload what it exports, then link us to the HTML file -- it will load in our browser window.

You'll get a lot more replies about it if you make it easy to play :D

Personally I'd like to see both the exported game and the capx file. Having both makes it easy to comment on what might be wrong or could be improved. Isn't part of the contest the ability to receive comments and make course corrections?

Does one lose points if one provides a .capx as well as a hosted file? Personally, I like downloading the capx file, running it, and ... see the next post.
 
seven":306fik9z said:
oops. let me know if this works:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25752478/rogueday8.zip


e; fixed projectiles.

Whoops, a plugin problem. I'm realizing that Construct 2 is really great, but the plugin installation is a real pain. Finding my Program Files and dropping in a plugin is a pain.

I guess if people are providing .xapx files, they need to list the plugins that are used.

I, for one, appreciated you .capx and I can install the plugins and admire the game and learn from your coding. Thank you for providing it. :biggrin:
 
Day 13

xG7rh.jpg
[Embedded content has been removed]
RvHrc.jpg


There is no real precedent for music in roguelikes, and the mechanics that are unique to the genre open up interesting opportunities for audio. My own take on how to innovate here is that procedural generation is thematically significant, and should be reflected in the music (e.g. instruments and the melody change dynamically in response to events in the game). However, that goes beyond the scope of this project (five days left!). This track is still a work in progress (it feels a little empty, and needs some percussion) but it's a good example of the style I'm trying for.

The screenshots are of the new field of view system (using rez's fantastic fov+pathfinding plugin) but I'm not quite ready to post a build yet. Check back tomorrow.

We are in the home stretch now! Expect daily updates until the 30th.
 
Day 18

It is already here.


This update was a long time in coming. I wanted to get working A*/Dijkstra map pathfinding implemented for enemies, and it didn't work out, for a variety of silly reasons. I'm still going to see this through.

This update has enemies which chase after the play and can be killed (but do not yet attack). Walk down the stairs to see them.

We're close to the deadline now. This game needs a name.

YOU will give it a name.

I haven't been able to search out much feedback, because work on extending the engine superseded any real design decisions. But if you're interested in this project, now is a nice time to contribute. Be creative! If at least seven names are suggested I will use one of them as the title; otherwise I'll make something up.

Thanks for bearing with me. This project still looks more like a tech demo than a game, but hopefully everything will come together in these last few days.
 

Tuna

Awesome Bro

I shudder at the thought of implementing Dijkstra's algorithm in Construct. I don't think the engine has any feasible support for the data structures it would require. Would be neat, though!

I think your project turned out pretty well. The atmosphere is great! It would be cool if you managed to implement enemies damaging the player and possibly some sort of scoring system before the deadline. Good job!
 
Tuna":1w3vsmhp said:
I shudder at the thought of implementing Dijkstra's algorithm in Construct. I don't think the engine has any feasible support for the data structures it would require. Would be neat, though!

I may have been a bit misleading; I didn't mean dijkstra's algorithm as such; there's an excellent article on it here. although the array has to be redrawn each time the goal point (the player) moves, enemies only have to check adjacent cells to travel to, so that the time to find a path for any number of enemies each step is effectively O(1). I wasn't able to get it working, but I suspect it can be done with just two arrays and some (while) loops.

Tuna":1w3vsmhp said:
I think your project turned out pretty well. The atmosphere is great! It would be cool if you managed to implement enemies damaging the player and possibly some sort of scoring system before the deadline. Good job!

I appreciate the feedback! enemy attacks are done. I'm not sure about a scoring system, but by the deadline this game will (hopefully) have an ending.
 
Interesting. I was confused at first, especially since it took me a bit to figure out the controls. Don't forget to add that info when you clean up your OP before submission :D

I quite like how the text appeared as I moved ... Felt cinematic.

One problem I noticed is that it's REALLY REALLY REALLY easy to fall in the water and die instantly. I feel like, since there are no checkpoints, and I keep getting rooms with pools that have teeny little ledges to navigate around them, falling in water should just knock off some HP and plant you back on land. Or knock off a chunk of HP each tick you remain in the water (consider LIMBO, where you can only be submerged for like 3 seconds before plotzing).

A little bug I found funny: After dying, when the whitenoise is filling the screen, if you tap "A", you still see & hear the sword slash animation. Haha.

Something strange happened when I started the game, at the base of the stairs. I was trying to figure out the controls. I looked up and pressed 'A' towards the right side of the stairs, and like this little red thing appeared, which sort of looked like a bleeding cut, above the player-sprite's head. I moved and it stayed where it was--I could even walk underneath it. Should have grabbed a screenshot.
Not sure what type of bug that would be.


As for the name, well, you have ROGUE all over the place ... How about naming it Rogue?
If that's too reminiscent of X-MEN or something, how about RogueLike? When there isn't much elucidation on characters or story, all I can think of are names that directly apply to what the game is :]
Oh, maybe, WhiteNoise
 
Done.


I guess I was too late to submit. :c Good luck to the other entrants.

It's late and I don't have time to write out everything I added today. There's quite a lot, though. I'll write some sort of post-mortem in the next week. I'm not done with the concept behind this game, but to meet the deadline and compensate for the event limit the code here is held together with rubber bands and chewing gum. Without a C2 license I would have to develop future versions in a lower level language (C++, etc.) so you won't be hearing about this again for a while.

To everyone who posted: thanks for following this project. Getting feedback and having something to work toward was a great experience; and even if I'm not in the running I don't regret the time I spent on this. tl;dr you are all bros.
 
sorry for not replying to your posts earlier.

Venetia":1kppjnjy said:
One problem I noticed is that it's REALLY REALLY REALLY easy to fall in the water and die instantly. I feel like, since there are no checkpoints, and I keep getting rooms with pools that have teeny little ledges to navigate around them, falling in water should just knock off some HP and plant you back on land. Or knock off a chunk of HP each tick you remain in the water (consider LIMBO, where you can only be submerged for like 3 seconds before plotzing).

A little bug I found funny: After dying, when the whitenoise is filling the screen, if you tap "A", you still see & hear the sword slash animation. Haha.
fixed both of these.

Venetia":1kppjnjy said:
WhiteNoise
yes.

@the opening text: I put some thought into how those opening titles are set up, so I'm glad you liked it. I was interested particularly in the fact that they all appear backwards, and with some other ideas which didn't make the deadline; I'll elaborate on this in the write-up.

Bob Thulfram":1kppjnjy said:
How big is this game? It seems to take forever to load!
I didn't realize it was that bad. :x when I export the game and clear the cache it still takes <20 secs. to load everything, including preloading music. might be a disparity in download speed.
 
Hey Seven,

I saw your report, requesting for the topic to be moved back to the C2 contest board.
Unfortunately, you missed the deadline, and as such, I can't keep your thread there. The board is supposed to be for vote-able entries only.

I'm really bummed that I can't include you on the judging process, and I know you're a good member and have worked really hard on this, however I can't make an exception. If I made an exception for you, I would have to reset all votes on the popular vote, and totally reconfigure some of the judging-related things I've already set up elsewhere. In addition, I'd have to make exceptions for the several other late entries, or else it wouldn't be fair.
I tried to post frequently throughout the final day, to keep everyone as up-to-date on when the cut-off time was as I could. Really didn't want anything like this to happen :(
But it wasn't a matter of a few minutes; you were about 4 hours late. I had already finished setting up the judging materials and polls by then.

If it's any consolation, I think that what you were working on was pretty neat. I hope that you keep working on it. If anyone wins a license and wants to donate it, but doesn't know who to donate it to, I'll keep you in mind.
 
OMG Seven. This game is great! Everything works so well >_< I'm sorry that you missed the deadline. This is such a great contest entry. Hopefully you'll receive a donated license as I want to see more of this game, and it'd be a pity if you stopped continuing it. The atmosphere is so great. And the new name - perfect.
 
@ven: it's all good.

@valkyrie: thanks for the kind words. I do want to continue this project, though maybe not in its current form. accommodating for the event limit, etc., this will take a long time. what I've written is part of a road map for future development. this is pretty verbose, so I've decided to split it up into several posts over the next few days.



Roles and Experience


How it works traditionally: You have just downloaded NetHack. You've heard that the game can be confusing at first, but you are enthusiastic and willing to learn. You open the game, and . . .

class.png


. . . what?

These names don't mean anything to you. You have no idea what you're choosing between. You are confused and have lost interest in the decision, so on a whim you choose to be a tourist. congratulations! you have died.

Choosing a role is not only confusing to new players, but many of the roles are redundant; there is very little difference between a rogue and a ranger, or between a valkyrie, knight, caveman, samurai, or monk. In fact, all roles are very similar strategically; the choice is "choose your difficulty" in everything but name. The player can also choose a race, but aside from some minor changes in stats, the choice still isn't compelling.

Although not all roles are geared for combat, NetHack's principle method for gaining experience is to kill enemies. Mechanisms exist for pacifists to gain levels, but the game is stacked in favor of fighters.

As the player gains levels, only their stats change; this helps discourage grinding, and this works well, but character progression should give the player more ways to interact with the game.

How it can be improved: Consolidate different roles into four or five different options, which are not only radically different but appeal to different styles of play. Mechanisms for character progression should play to the strengths of the player's role. A high experience level shouldn't make a game easy, but it should give the player the tools to develop a more complex strategy.

How it could be implemented:

warrior.png
Warrior: The strongest and least strategic of all roles, the warrior is a good choice for new players. The warrior is slow and is only capable of physical combat, but a large amount of health provides a wide margin of error. Because the strategy of the warrior does not scale with the game, the diversity and severity of hazards increases, so that while this role is still a viable choice players are encouraged to experiment. Warriors gain experience by killing enemies.

mage.png
Mage: They can start fires which spread through the map, destroying flammable objects and burning enemies. They use telekinesis to fire nearby objects at enemies (and can eventually use enemies as projectiles against other enemies), or take control of weapons and armor to create a rotating shield around themselves. They can cause lightning to strike, but have no direct control over where it lands (mages should never wear metal armor). They can shoot bubbles which drown smaller enemies and make larger ones wet (combine this with lightning for devastating consequences). Mages gain experience by using magic to exploit enemy weaknesses.

020-Hunter01.png
Rogue: They are fast, stealthy, good with a bow, and excellent tool-users (they are known to carry grappling hooks and improvised explosives on their person). Rogues are vulnerable: if enemies catch you they will likely kill you, but they'll have to catch you first. Rogues take advantage of darkness, dungeon features, and labyrinthine corridors. Rogues gain less experience than other roles, but those who succeed in speed-running to the bottom floor of the dungeon are rewarded handsomely.

necromancer.png
Necromancer: Necromancers revive fallen enemies to fight for them. The necromancer's campaign consists of killing a few enemies, who kill more enemies in turn, until the necromancer has amassed an army of the undead. Necromancers gain experience when their minions kill other enemies, but they do not become stronger; instead, necromancers gain more nuanced control of their minions: Which ones will I send to fight the minotaur? Keep that fire elemental away from the water! I'm about to die, I want to call back all of my minions to protect me! etc. Instead of strategy arising from internal complexity, it emerges naturally from the diversity of enemies.

mechanic.png
Mechanic: If it exists in the game, you can probably build it: walls, moats, doors, gun turrets, conveyor belts, transporters, weapons, armor, vehicles (with poor safety standards, naturally), bizarre new tools (scythe + chain whip + trigger = long-ranged scythe???), pressure plates and switches to control other mechanisms, stairs and bridges are all possible. Gameplay is analogous to a tower-defense game; you shape the environment around you to create fortified bases, but if enemies reach you, you won't last very long. Mechanics gain experience when their machines kill enemies, and more experience (and more raw materials) allow them to build more complex machines.
 

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