Transexuality by Choice

[Ellie]

There are often arguments over whether or not transexuality (I.e. physically changing your sexual characteristics to that of the opposite gender), like being gay, is a choice or not.

But, what if someone wanted to make that choice? Not because they think they (from a male prospective) are a girl, or because the feel they should have been a girl, but because they want to be a girl... is this possible, is this right, is there anything wrong with this?

I personally would, if there was an actual way, have a sex change. I don't mean inverting your penis, or cutting part of your intestine and using that as a vagina; I mean an actual physical sex change, with no catches. I understand such a thing isn't possible (yet), but nonetheless that is how I feel.

Should people be allowed to make that choice?

One argument could be that such a change would probably be permanent... but then so is a tatoo, or laser eye surgery. After all, people have plastic surgery by will all the time - bigger boobs, smaller butts, botox, you name it. What about sex changes?

Discuss~

 

[Ellie]

Oh and double post for emphasism:

The argument here is nothing to do with whether someone would look stupid as a girl/guy, though all transexual/crossdressing debates here seem to end up as such. I already look like a girl (>:|) but that's besides the point anyway, please keep it out of this thread.

 

[Despain]

No. It's not something that you just for the fun of it. There are people who were genuinely born with the wrong sex organs, but just doing it on a whim is total bullshit, insulting to real trasngenders, and it's a mistake that you will regret.

 

[Ellie]

I get what you're saying, and this is completely hypo...theto...whatsitmacallit, theoretical. Obviously it's not just a decision to be made overnight, even actual transexuals have to spend at least a year as their regender to see if it's actually what they think it is. It wouldn't be just a "here's a pill, it'll make you grow boobs and a vagoo", *gulp*.

But I don't get how it's insulting to transgenders

 

[FlippyD]

It's because it sounds like you just want to try it out for yucks, unlike transgendered people who go through supposed psychological trauma, and who claim to want to change not for yucks but because of a genetic mishap.

It's like a white person saying "Hey, I'd like to take a black pill just to see what it's like for a day", I guess.

Really, transgendered people are so mixed that they get a lot of fucked up wannabes jumping under their umbrella. So many that it all looks like the old bisexual debate to me.

 

[arbiter]

;D

 

[bashful crobat]

Sex changes are irreversible, and so can't really be compared to the relative ease that comes with the removal of a tattoo (a few visits to a laser therapy clinic and it's gone). The choice to have a tattoo is nowhere near as large as the choice to get your John Thomas lopped off, which would greatly alter the way you live and the way the world sees you.

 

[rey meustrus]

I think we could all use some time as the opposite sex.  Sex changes aren't going to do it though; it might help us to understand the sexual differences, but what we all need is a way to understand the way the opposite sex thinks.  It is subtly different.  Even real transgenders don't get to know this.  If they're doing it right, they already think like what they're changing into.  No, you're more likely to understand the other side by taking LSD than by changing sex.

Though I feel like joining the bandwagon on attacking the first post's premise of desire being enough for a sex change (and the technological necessity of perfect operations, which are fully reversible and give you full reproductive abilities unlike what they can do now), I've got to admit that if anybody could willy-nilly go have a sex change (and they actually did it) there would be a lot more tolerance between the sexes.  It would truly make both biologically equal, and therefore reduce any standing which people have to believe women (or men, for that matter) inferior.  If you can't tell what the person in front of you was born as, how do you know you're not insulting a former member of your own sex and implying yourself deficient as well?

 

[arbiter]

;D

 

[Grathea]

Sex reassignment surgery isn't anywhere near a quick thing - you need a ton of money, a letter from a therapist saying that you are actually gender dysphoric, at LEAST a year of time on hormones and living fulltime as your correct gender (as in, no spending time as male if you're a male to female transsexual), etc.
Also, since the operation removes your main hormone production centers, you're going to end up on hormones for the rest of your life. Hormones which have a whole load of nasty side effects. Not fun stuff.
I'll be honest, I came into this topic expecting to really bitch about the title - transsexuality is NOT a choice, by any means, and anyone who insinuates that it is is wrong. Of course, the topic was different from what I expected to be, but my point stands - it is NOT a choice, and nobody would honestly want to pick this life.
And a tattoo is the wrong comparison - tattoos can be removed, but the effects of SRS or continued hormone use are severe and can't really be reversed the way tattoos can - having to take hormones every day for the rest of your life, being sterile, etc... aren't anywhere near what a tattoo is.

 

[Ellie]

I don't think I explained myself very well...

I understand sex reassignment surgery/therapy are not nice things to go through. What I am talking about is completely theoretical - an actual sex change, the idealistic no-strings-attached change of male to female. Imagine science had advanced far enough to allow someone to become a female/male at the drop of a hat. Should people be allowed to make that choice?

Obviously transitioning would still be a big factor, and only a complete idiot would have a sex change or anything major like plastic surgery without tring it out for a year or so first.

Oh and sorry for the tatoo comparison, I was clutching at straws at an idea in my head but forgot what it was. :/

 

[___]

I have no problem with people doing anything they want to their body in any fashion they want. However I do think that a person who has had a sex change has a responsibility to tell potential partners about it, if nothing else to save themselves both a trip to visit Jerry Springer.

 

[FlippyD]

I dislike the idea because it's dangerously close to the whole pro-transhumanism argument which I'm convinced will end in utter failure for us humans (but it's going to happen anyway so fuck-all.)

Obviously if someone has a genetic disposition towards one gender, but a mental disposition towards the other I feel that such a process would be warranted and, if we had such a pill by that time we could certainly tell if a foetus was affected in such a way in-utero, and thus it could be applied immediately.

However, why take a pill to check out the other gender's equipment when you could just get a girl/boyfriend sex android?

 

[___]

I think it'd be fun just for the sake of it in a magical world where such a thing could be done without consequence. Unfortunately that is not likely to ever be the case. I could imagine a world where you could grow sexual organs in a vat and have them installed or something, and hormone therapy can do wonders for altering one's features over the course of time, but there's not likely ever going to be a pill or a magic wand that will transform you one way and back again.

For dabblers though we're probably not far off from direct neural interfaces that can simulate the experience, which might be a good aid in helping potential transsexuals decide whether it's really for them, and as a general therapy tool (as well as great recreation if the moral minority don't manage to make it illegal, haha).

 

[Grathea]

In that case, I'd probably see it as just a fairly extreme form of bodymods. I wouldn't have any problem with it - long live self-expression, after all.
But like N said, that's in an ideal world, which we sadly don't have - ask any transperson and they'll back me up on this one.

 

[Dissonance]

In the end, if it's what a person wants to do, nobody else has any right to tell them no.

In the same vein, if they're all "omg I hate this" after it's done they've only got themselves to blame.

 

[___]

... if they're all "omg I hate this" after it's done ...

That's called pure comedy

 

[Grathea]

... if they're all "omg I hate this" after it's done ...

That's called pure comedy

Actually, it's really sad. There are a couple of transpeople in Australia or somewhere who have raised a fuss with this same argument, and it shames the whole community and makes it much harder to be taken seriously for all the other transpeople out there.

 

[___]

Naw, when a person brutally fucks up their body for fun and pleasure and realizes after the fact it wasn't such a hot idea and there's no fixing it, hilarious. The solution for people who actually have this done for a good reason is to mock the fuck out of those confused bastards like the rest of us, to make sure nobody perceives them as part of the same group (which they aren't anyway).