The Purpose of Government in Rpg's

[Spoo]

The Basics[/FONT]
We all know the purpose of government, right? In short, to protect the rights of people. If any of you paid attention in civics, no matter the grade, you'd know this.[/FONT]

However, Rpg government can be twisted to make it a bit more interesting. For example, the government, in one area, I mean. I skip down to governor as the leader, then to city council, which is made up of the city's scholars and elders, then citizens have the lowest rank.[/FONT]​

I decided to skip the Executive, Legislative, Judicial branches along with some other things in the US constitution, but I do have congress, at least at some point.[/FONT]
What government does and why[/FONT]
For this section I'll be looking into the US government as an example. Without government our country would be chaos. Here's the list of purposes of government, right out of the book:[/FONT]

• To form a more perfect union -- Coordinate resources[/FONT]
• Establish justice -- Mediate between citizens[/FONT]
• Ensure domestic tranquility -- Protect citizens[/FONT]
• Provide for the common defence -- Conduct foreign affairs[/FONT]
• Promote general welfare -- Provide services for citizens[/FONT]
• Secure the blessing of liberty -- Promote prosperity[/FONT]

A lot of reasons, right? Suppose there was no supreme central government in America. We get attacked directly. Many states, ruling themselves would retaliate, only to be defeated. Then each state gets taken one by one until....POOF! No more USA! I guess that covers it for now. If this does good I might continue it...But thats all for now![/FONT]

Thanks for reading it![/FONT]
~~Mapper :thumb:[/FONT]

 

[crispychaney]

lol i thought you were going to put more into it than that lol
im dissapointed now
you may want to consider the different types of rulers also such as:
a monarchy
a democracy
a dictatorship
a communist state

and then perhaps discuss some of the pros and cons of each

 

[Clest]

Yeah, quite simple, but I congratulate you on touching the subject

I hope you don't mind if I add in some constructive comments, you may even add then to your main post if you find they are good enough :P

Governemt

Well, government may have many purposes, but the main function of governm,ent since the first organized societies were formed is: An interest trade where the governor offers order and protection, in exchange for privileges.

Surely that as in any trade, there are honest dealers and those who will try to trick the other part. And even about tyrants, they deceive the people, even when it seems they press people with brute force. Because once people feel that they are both unhappy and that they can overthrow the ruler, they will.

With that, we can guess government has a huge impact in your game settings, at least in the different communities. A society ruled by a tyrant is far different than one ruled by a fair council.

Not to say all councils will be fair or that all tyrants are pure evil. This is a misconception since a tyrant may use deceit and force but through that really get to keep order and security.

Government will usually influence:
-A region's economy, both general wealth and distribution including taxes
-A region's order: crime rate, penal code, law enforcement...
-A region's freedom, controlling what people are free to do. Relates to art, religion, journalism...
-A region's military strength (for both protection and conquering other lands)
-Science development (be iot technology, alchemy or even magic)
-Foreign relations: how the nation deals with other nations.

All those elements impact your game's settings and the story is affected by settings. You can work on government just as a complement to your settings or you can actually use then to enrich your plot or even base the plot around the subject.

I won't go into governhment types, but that is a must do. From then detail the government structure, assuming that it is more than one ruler or that the ruler has assistence.

Then create the rulers, outline their personalities, and outline their Ethos (basically, the personality they show to the people). Remember a king may look good to the people, but be cruel behjind the scenes).

Well for now I think that is it to add.

Reading The Prince, by Maquiavel might help with this issue also

 

[Grathea]

You mean Machiavelli, right?

I'll touch on communist governments.

Communist governments are based on one central principle - the commune. A group of people, usually workers, live in a small village-like commune. All goods produced in the commune are free for anyone who needs them.
As you can probably tell, this eliminates an economy. However, should you try and game the system by taking everything you want without producing in return, you are very likely to be met with disapproval and possibly even violence until you return the stolen objects. This has potential in a game, for example, a shop where everything is free. You'd need to do some stuff to balance it out, though.

More on communism can be found here.

 

[Clest]

Yep, Machiavelli. They translate his name over here for pronounce means o.o

And comunism would be a good theme for an RPG... I imagine something like George Orwell books, but in RPG form, where they portray a protagonist or more who are exceptions in a facist or comunist setting.

 

[PINEDAXP]

Machiavelli's apport on separating the church from the state are indeed important ones. As for an RPG there's nothing better than a communist system (actually it'd be better in the whole world too)

Why do I say this? If you notice, in RPGs, Imperialists are the bad guys (aka capitalism)

And the communist guy who tries to get an equal society is the good guy...

So, not so far from reality isn't it?

 

[Diedrupo]

Machiavelli's apport on separating the church from the state are indeed important ones. As for an RPG there's nothing better than a communist system (actually it'd be better in the whole world too)

Why do I say this? If you notice, in RPGs, Imperialists are the bad guys (aka capitalism)

And the communist guy who tries to get an equal society is the good guy...

So, not so far from reality isn't it?

You've GOT to be kidding me.

 

[PINEDAXP]

Edea: "I want to rule the world" Bad Girl

Shakhan: "Eventually I'll be over with prince Bart and my reign will no longer be questioned" Bad Guy

Bart: "We have to overthrow Shakhan to make an equitative government based on equality for evryone" Good Guy

Comunism IS the good guys tendency in RPGs... have you heard a "good guy" saying: "We have the power, let's make an excuse and take over our oil rival"

You all know it, you might disagree but you know it... when a Kingdom is attacked, forces are sent to preserve the land, not the ppl

EDIT: In the example above, Shakhan killed Bart's family, and Bart is the rightful king of the game....

Spoiler

I'm not posting here anymore, I noticed some people is just too happy being manipulated by capitalist models and feel that communism is evil when it's not... anarchy isn't the same as communism, learn that people

 

[Diedrupo]

Edea: "I want to rule the world" Bad Girl

Shakhan: "Eventually I'll be over with prince Bart and my reign will no longer be questioned" Bad Guy

Bart: "We have to overthrow Shakhan to make an equitative government based on equality for evryone" Good Guy

Comunism IS the good guys tendency in RPGs... have you heard a "good guy" saying: "We have the power, let's make an excuse and take over our oil rival"

You all know it, you might disagree but you know it... when a Kingdom is attacked, forces are sent to preserve the land, not the ppl

I thought RPGs were about heros saving the world from evil villains, not anarchists trying to overthrow governments for the sake of some political ideal.

 

[PINEDAXP]

And those heroes have a communist tendency, and the government has a capitalist, or imperialist tendency, as well as bad guys... I know this hurts some ppl, but it's the thruth

 

[Clest]

I thought RPGs were about heros saving the world from evil villains, not anarchists trying to overthrow governments for the sake of some political ideal.

Actually, there are both of those :P

As per communism: It is a wonderful idea, but I don't believe humans can live with it. It would work greatly for some elven community or for some high evolved alien race, but humans as we are, would screw things as they did in the old U.R.S.S or even worse. Think of Animal Farm by George Orwel: first "Everyone is equal", leter "Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others!". It is really sad...

But there are many alternatives to things, capitalism and communism are just mainstream.

You can even create your own political/economic system.

In my game I create a galactic kingdom based on european feudalism where you have a king and each solar system has a feudal lord and each planet has a governor or secretary of the feudal lord. There is a lot more to it and there is a civil war going on for the king's throne after the last king kicked the bucket :P

 

[holloway]

[/FONT]The Basics
[/FONT] We all know the purpose of government, right? In short, to protect the rights of people. If any of you paid attention in civics, no matter the grade, you'd know this.

If you'd payed attention it whatever the hell "civics" is, you'd no this to be rubbish. The purpose of government is to govern. Protection of the rights of the people is a far more socialist viewpoint and not at the core of ANY concept of government.

[/FONT]

However, Rpg government can be twisted to make it a bit more interesting. For example, the government, in one area, I mean. I skip down to governor as the leader, then to city council, which is made up of the city's scholars and elders, then citizens have the lowest rank. ​

You really have no idea do you? "Twisting to make more interesting" Duh, do you mean changing government layout? The US government isn't the only governing style there is. What you described is a constitutional monarchy. And no that does not mean it requires a codified constitution.

[/FONT]

I decided to skip the Executive, Legislative, Judicial branches along with some other things in the US constitution, but I do have congress, at least at some point.

What the hell? No executive, legislative or judicial branches means NO GOVERNMENT. You can't not have these. They ARE the government.

[/FONT]Here's the list of purposes of government, right out of the book:
[/FONT]

• To form a more perfect union -- Coordinate resources[/FONT]
• Establish justice -- Mediate between citizens[/FONT]
• Ensure domestic tranquility -- Protect citizens[/FONT]
• Provide for the common defence -- Conduct foreign affairs[/FONT]
• Promote general welfare -- Provide services for citizens[/FONT]
• Secure the blessing of liberty -- Promote prosperity[/FONT]

You messed these up pretty bad.
Perfect union- correct, but this also includes maintaining the state powers whilst retaining federal control.
Justice - no mediation. Simply to uphold the law.
Tranquility - Justice and policing as well as economic security.
defence - er, no. Foreign affairs is diplomacy, defence is military and offensive capabilities.
general welfare - you managed to get this right
blessing of liberty - it means freedoms and rights. To uphold the freedoms and rights of the people

[/FONT]A lot of reasons, right? Suppose there was no supreme central government in America. We get attacked directly. Many states, ruling themselves would retaliate, only to be defeated. Then each state gets taken one by one until....POOF! No more USA! I guess that covers it for now. If this does good I might continue it...But thats all for now!

Gee, you mean like Europe. That really isn't a reason behind a federal government. The federal government SPAWNED the states. If you don't have the federal government you don't have states- individual states governing themselves destroys a supranational unifying government and therefore means the "USA" doesn't exist as a country. States become countries.


It's apparent you wrote this out on a whim. For the life of me, I cannot understand how it passed moderation. There's nothing to it, and it is, well, wrong.
[/FONT]


Edit: And I've no idea what has happened with the quotes.

 

[tibuda]

I didn't wished to enter this discussion, but I have to comment some posts here. I don't know if the terms I'm using are correct, and maybe my word are confused (english is not my first language).

Communist governments are based on one central principle - the commune. A group of people, usually workers, live in a small village-like commune. All goods produced in the commune are free for anyone who needs them.
As you can probably tell, this eliminates an economy.

God, how can you say "this eliminates an economy"?? If goods are produced, you have an economy, but it is not regulated by the market. People think an economy as a market, but it's not. According to the classical definition, economy is the way people organize themselves to produce and distribute goods and services for their needs. And that descriptions fits well to the role the government has in a communist state. We can even say that government have the market's role in such state.

I thought RPGs were about heros saving the world from evil villains, not anarchists trying to overthrow governments for the sake of some political ideal.

Communism is not anarchy... Marx (communist) had many discussions with Bakunin (anarchist) about it in the First International. There are some similarities, but they are different. I will not explain it, because it's not the topic. Maybe you can have heros saving the world from profit-hungry people.

And those heroes have a communist tendency, and the government has a capitalist, or imperialist tendency, as well as bad guys... I know this hurts some ppl, but it's the thruth

I can't agree. Some heros are revolutionaries, but not communists. They may fight against feudal rights, or something else. Marx in the Communist Manifesto recognises the role the Bourgeoisie had in the history. I believe you are confusing imperialism with capitalism. Imperialism (the highest stage of capitalism, according to Lenin) is the "colonization" of poor countries markets by international monopolists. People in those poor countries really don't like these firms, because of the profit remittance, but it doesn't mean they don't like capitalism. Maybe they just wished that these profits stays in their country.


Now I wish to point out an intermediate choice between capitalism and communism: the welfare state. Maybe once we are in capitalism, it will show some limitations, and some will think it's "bad". Unemployment, the extreme poverty in Africa, the uneven development in Latin America... Since the 1929 crisis, keynesian economists are telling about the role of the state to fix market failures. Off course, there are inflationary consequences of such policies. But some countries (like Brasil) would never get industrialized without a massive government intervention. Some extreme marxists would say the welfare state is the "antibody" created by capitalism against communism, but it's not the point. The point is that the welfare state can reduce the distortions created by the free market, and they mean no harm to people's rights.

 

[holloway]

^ I love this guy. So much.

 

[Clest]

Yep, great post

 

[Spoo]

Well then, High School civics books and The Volume Libraries must be SHIT! That book was my brothers...From his senior year...
Oh, and to clear a few things up, Anarchy is a government ruled by a king or queen, communist governments basicly control what people eat, their health care, that stuff. And a dictatorship...Just a country ruled by a person or a group of people.

Oh, @Diedrupo
I'm not telling anyone they must have an advanced government in their games. In Warside, the whole problem is caused by a cult (or whatever) killing various political figures, so making a government makes the story progress making more sense.

 

[holloway]

Yes they must be then. This wasn't politics.

 

[lunarea]

Anarchy is a government ruled by a king or queen,

That's monarchy. Different from anarchy. Anarchy = absence of government.

 

[holloway]

Anarchy is a government ruled by a king or queen, communist governments basicly control what people eat, their health care, that stuff. And a dictatorship...Just a country ruled by a person or a group of people.

NONONONONO. Please just stop, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Diedrupo]

And those heroes have a communist tendency, and the government has a capitalist, or imperialist tendency, as well as bad guys... I know this hurts some ppl, but it's the thruth

It's too bad that countries like North Korea, China, and the former USSR show that communist countries are some of the most totalitarian and evil countries in existence.

I'm also willing to bet that you can't name a single RPG where you overthrew an evil kingdom that was all about people owning their own businesses (that's what capitalism is, in case you had some mistaken idea of what it was about). In fact, all evil kingdoms have a tendency to you know, oppress the people they take over, very similar to communist countries.

Also, communism != socialism.