Should employers be allowed to require you to be bilingual to be hired?

[sixtyandaquarter]

Fun.

People who aren't able to go and learn a second language are increasingly being cut off from the minimum wage jobs that they need to get by.  You can't justify people living in a society that speaks mainly English not being able to get a job because they can't speak Spanish.

Yes because if you live in an area where people want to hire people who can swim, and you don't - it's obviously the employers fault. 

It's about cutting young people or uneducated people (who can't get better paying employment) off from the only jobs they are qualified to do or WOULD be qualified to do were it not for a stupid bilingual requirement.

Show me one town.  Go on.  Show me one town in the US that has the requirement of a second language in a menial job, but doesn't have anywhere near by to learn that. 

If I was 16 and needed a summer job and lived in a predominantly Hispanic area that wasn't predominantly Hispanic when my parents bought our house, what am I supposed to do for a summer job if everything in the area requires that I speak Spanish now?

Umm... how bout the same thing the people who are losing their jobs and didn't need a college, let a lone a high school diploma when they entered the work force, but need one now.
You ehh... get the hell up and learn to deal with it. 

If I had a relative that didn't have any other skills or wasn't able to learn another language due to disability, but they needed a job, would it be right to turn them down because they're not bilingual?

There are plenty of disabled workers.  Don't feed me that, I worked in a reach out program that got disabled workers jobs - both physically and mentally disabled.  If you have Downs Syndrome you can work construction, pool maintenance, and loads of other jobs that you probably aren't thinking of, so how would not being able to learn two languages stop you? 

And whether you like it or not, it is catering to a select group of people that choose not to learn.  If an employer wanted to teach me the phrases I would need to be able to deal with people who want a burger at McDonald's, that's fine, I'll learn, but don't tell me I can't have the job just because I can't speak the Spanish (or whatever language) required at the time of applying. 

Guess what?  They don't HAVE to teach you.
They don't.  If I go to a Taxi company, chances are they won't pay for my learning to drive.

Guess what, the only places that pay for training are places that are unique.  They have a system or setting that is so unique, chances of you having training elsewhere already is pretty slim.  They hire you based on your resume, the skills you have.  They say "Well, he has these 5 but he doesn't know how to work this our way - this guy only has two, but he does know... why not just teach this first kid the one skill instead of this second guy 3?" and your off and you have work.

Very few places will train you off site or pay for classes of any sort.  Generally the only training you get is onsite, IE: in the McDonalds you are trained then and there to use the fryer.  That's it.

And unless you're a legal permanent resident, are 55 and have had your green card for 15 years or are 50 and have had your green card for 20 years, you have to take the citizenship test in English.  So, unless you want to wait a really long time, you have to take the test in English.

Or unless you are born in the country.  See your above statement is right less than 25% of the possabilities.
You can be born here by two parents and get citizenship without any knowledge of the English language.
You can be born abroad by two parents who are US Citizens and get citizenship without any knowledge of the English language.
If you qualify for duel citizenship (which in some cases only means one parent, the father, has to be a citizen) you can be a citizen of the Us without any knowledge of the English language.
You can qualify for any number of other methods for citizenship and qualify without any knowledge of the US language.

Trust me, look up the citizenship laws, look up the usciv.gov website and do some searching.  There are over 5 ways to be a citizen without any knowledge of the common English language.

No, by the way, I haven't ever seen a free Spanish class anywhere that isn't online.

Where do you live, I bet I could find one.

I live in NY.  Every high school offers Spanish as their second language.  Many offer French and Italian, some offer German, Russian, etc.  But every single one offers Spanish.  Every G.E.D. course also houses a free course for adults to learn other languages.  There are thousands of schools in the US, no actually a hell of a lot more than thousands, who offer night courses for various things, particularly hobbies.  Like you go on Wednesday and learn pottery.  Each one of those will generally have language courses, and many are very cheap and many are free and will teach Spanish.

And as for being "only" online.  That's enough.

I didn't say anything about hiring TWICE as many employees.  A few that speak Spanish or Chinese or whatever fluently would suffice, but since a second language is supposed to be considered a PLUS and not a basic requirement for a minimum wage job, it should pay better than minimum wage.

If you lived where I did you would be hiring TWICE as many employees since a large majority only hire two people.  Now you need a guy who speaks Russian, Spanish, and either Italian or Hebrew depending on your clients.  The chances of knowing someone who speaks two of those languages is slim.  So you are hiring 4 guys, and hoping that either the Italian or some other group of your clients can get by.

Very few places here are stacked with workers.  Generally even the Hotel near by only carries about 10 people who will have to deal with the front desk - and all of them must be bilingual, you must speak Spanish or Italian.

And no, you can't "get work anywhere".  When was the last time YOU went out and looked for a job?

You don't know me very well.
If you knew me off the IRC you'd know I get a new job roughly every three weeks.  I happen to lose jobs constantly.  I'm a horrible worker and don't watch my mouth.  I will throw an insult and a bitchy customer.  I currently work at a comic shop and as soon as the summer kicks up I'll be working at a pool spa maintenance for a whopping $1 more.  But I'll have good dental.

My longest dry spell without a job was 5 weeks.  Five weeks for someone with a G.E.D. and has to check off "some college" in their applications, and when asked has to mention that I was kicked out of one college for skipping two classes.

There're not everywhere and they're not easy to get, bucko, in case you haven't noticed.

Funny how I get a job every time I lose one after a week or two, no one I know can't get one - well some say they can't... but that's because "I'm not working there it's dirty"... yeah.  Jobs are left and right the problem is swallowing your pride and getting off your ass.  If you can't get a job it's not the market's fault, it's your under skilled.

Things may be good where you live, but they're shitty everywhere else and being denied a job because someone doesn't want to learn the main language spoken in the United States is fucking retarded unless they're hiring for a position which specifically requires the ability to translate.

FEEDING CHILDREN AT A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT IS A JOB THAT SPECIFICALLY REQUIRES THE ABILITY TO TRANSLATE.
A poor immigrant family who has to work illegally to pay for meals and even then after all it's said and done has to go over the dollar menu, no of course not, why would that be a needy cause to learn a stupid little language that over 30% of the US already speaks in some measure.

Driving a vehicle is a skill that you're expected to learn as a means to survive anywhere in the modernized world.  It's universal.  It's not comparable.

No.
I live in a large city.  Gas costs nearly $4 a gallon at times, and I've seen it cost higher.  There is massive amounts of public transportation.  There's bus service 24/7, taxi service 24/7, trains and subways 24/7 and lots of other things.  I can take the ferry to different spots of NYC.
A year ago or two I did a lot of traveling around this great city.  It costs me a total of $8 thanks to a nice little metro card that works all day for that one set price.  For the entire day.  To go miles.  To go to 3 of the boroughs that make up NYC: Manhattan, Staten Island, and Brooklyn.  Driving it would cost so much more with tolls and gas.

A larger population of my city does not drive, perhaps, to get by.  Maybe because almost the entire workforce in Manhattan commutes and does so by public transportation.  Everything is a bus trip away.  Free transfers allow you to hop from bus to train to bus again to subway and you can travel over 40 miles on $2.50.

Don't tell me the modernized world demands driving talent when a projection of the public transportation here alone shows that over 40% of the locals don't need to depend on a car.  It's a luxury for people who don't want to wait for a bus that comes every 15 minutes and is timed so that the transfers before it only have a few minutes wait.

Funny how NYC and several other cities in the US are obviously less modern then the rest.

Maybe when where you live is slowly overrun by immigrants (legal and illegal alike) who don't speak English and all the jobs at McDonald's and Jack in the Box and KFC and Payless and all these other stores start requiring you to be bilingual and nobody you know who doesn't have a college degree of some kind can find a job because they don't speak the immigrants' language, you'll understand what's going on.

There is no Jack in the Box here.  We have McDonalds, White Castle, KFC, all the rest.  And the people working there are all black.
College diplomas?  I only know two people with them.  And like I said very few people I know struggle to find work.  They struggle to accept work.

It's hard enough for the lower class to find employment without creating an additional hurdle for them to jump over.  Knowing a second language shouldn't be a requirement to get a minimum wage job.  A job that pays more than minimum wage, sure, but I shouldn't have to speak Spanish before I'll be considered to work at the counter at McDonald's.  Period, dot, the end.

Just to let you know I'm poor.

I qualify in the poverty line.  I speak one language, English.  I can barely spell if I'm not typing.  Sure the spell check helps out, but a lot of words I can type correctly but I'd write wrong.  I suffer from mental issues such as acute paranoia attacks, and more which I won't get into.  I have no problem finding work.  Everyone I know can get work, they chose not to.

A very small amount of people can not find work.  They don't look in the right place, they get proud and refuse to do certain jobs because they are demeaning, below them.  Tiffany, my friends sister, can't "find" work.  She won't work at the supermarket that's a block from her apartment because she doesn't wanna touch raw meat, which is what she'd be doing.  She refuses to work at the port because she dislikes the smell of fish and salt.  She won't work at the hair stylist next door because then she'd "have to get her hair cut there" (no that doesn't make sense to me either).  The blockbuster?  She won't work there because she doesn't like the blue uniform.

Almost anyone I know won't work at a job because of some menial reason.  That's the only reason they won't work.

Oh and numerous countries seem to have a bilingual quota and they get by just fine.  We're separated from the majority of the world and it hurts us and spoils us.

So if you don't know English, and you're not actively learning it, and you're living here, get out.

Why to completely not know what America stands for.

 

[thelivingphoenix]

Finally, Tensuke, somebody gets it.  Until English becomes the minority language in the US, I agree, "English, it is.".

And yeah, there are places that you can learn Spanish, but you know what?  In most places, you have to PAY for it unless you're already in high school and having to learn it to graduate and some schools don't require you to learn it at all.  A lot of people simply don't have the time to learn the language of someone else who decided to move next door because they're too damn busy just trying to get by in the first place.  You live in an English-speaking country, you learn English, you don't expect them to learn what you brought over from the old country.

And if I was struggling enough to have to consider working at the counter at McDonald's, I probably can't afford to pay for a damned Spanish class.  And even if there is a free Spanish class near by, is it within walking distance?  Do I have the money to buy gas to get there?  If I have 3 kids, do I even have TIME for a Spanish class in between taking care of my kids and working 10 hours a day and driving 45 minutes to get there and 45 minutes to get home?  God help me if I'd had to learn Spanish when I worked at the car parts factory when I lived in Tennessee, because it was the only job that I could get nearby that paid any decent money and you had to work your fucking ASS off for that.  Every other job in town or even close to town paid $5.15 an hour unless you had some kind of degree and even the job at the factory paid $6.35 an hour, depending on what job they gave you to do on and off during the day.  Some jobs paid $6.35, some jobs you had to make 46 parts in an hour to make $6.35, some required you to make 110 parts in an hour before you could make a dime over $6.35.  That was a menial job, it was nasty, there was no air conditioning during the summer or much heat in the winter unless we had inspectors from Chevrolet, Ford, or any of the other number of auto makers we made parts for, you could be cussed up one end and down the other and there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it, except quit.  Quit?  Who can quit and find something that they can make $12+ an hour at without a college education in that area?  Not a lot of places in rural Tennessee where you can make that kind of money without a college education or some kind of skill that takes time, effort, and typically money to learn. 

So, yeah, sure, why not raise the number of requirements for a minimum wage job and make it that much harder for people to find work where they live just because some immigrants don't want to learn enough English to order a burger?  Let's keep inviting illegal immigrants over here by making sure everybody in the service industry speaks their language and makes everything easier on them, like they're our honored guests.  And no, if you can't figure out how to order a burger in English after having been here for a while, unless you're mentally disabled, you don't need to be here.  I bet you I could go into Mexico right now and learn enough Spanish between here and there to be able to order a burger at McDonald's in Mexico City WITHOUT the clerk knowing a word of English.  I don't expect them to cater to me in THEIR country where Spanish is both the main language, the national language, and the de facto official language.

And NO, working at a fast food restaurant isn't a job where the ability to translate is necessary!  All a person should need is a few key phrases in another language to work there and they can be taught to an employee easily, but the ability to have a conversation with the person is completely unnecessary.  That's what the manager is for, have the manager be bilingual if they have a problem.  It is not necessary to know Spanish or whatever to serve somebody a burger.

And it's a proven fact: you stop catering to the needs of illegal immigrants and they STOP COMING where you are.  They go somewhere else!  It's not about "swimming", it's about making sure the people who were born here legally have access to the most basic jobs without them having to work extra hard to get them.

No, a taxi service won't pay for you learning how to drive now, but guess what?  There isn't a huge influx of car drivers into the United States where before, we didn't use cars.  If cars were uncommon in the United States and a bunch of people just decided to bring theirs with them across the border, yeah, that new taxi service would probably help you learn how to drive because it's in the best interests of the business and the driving class you could get yourself would likely be neither free, cheap, nor nearby.

Not being picky about the job that you get is all well and good and yeah, there are a lot of people that bitch because there isn't any work to be found when in reality, they're just lazy shits that don't want to do any better for themselves.  They exist; half my late dad's side of the family fit into that category.  But, you can't keep raising the requirements for a minimum wage job, because a minimum wage job is supposed to require a minimum amount of skill; that's why it's a minimum wage job.  Since when are we expected to have extra skills to get a minimum wage job?  We're not supposed to!  Minimum skills, minimum wage.  Speak Spanish?  You're supposed to get paid more.  It's not a basic job requirement to serve burgers.  It's just not.  Minimum wage jobs are supposed to require you to be able to do at least some of the following:

1)Follow directions
2)Perform basic math
3)Perform a light to mild amount of physical labor
4)Show common sense
5)Have a good attitude with customers

Minimum wage jobs are supposed to be entry positions requiring a minimum amount of skill.

And having to have a high school diploma to go to work is probably unreasonable, too, since having the legal ability to work and support your family regardless of your level education is a right, not a privilege, unless you abuse the right by breaking an employer's rules.

What am I supposed to do when the area I live in gets slowly overrun by people who don't want to learn enough English to order a burger?  Move?  Why should I have to move?  They come live next door to me and expect me to change the way I live to suit them and complain when I don't hire someone who speaks more than a few phrases of their language?  I don't think so.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Someone else take up this argument I'm getting a head ache from repeating myself.

An employer has the right to hire someone based on skills and abilities.

A cop might not NEED to know how to shoot.  Hundreds have never shot their gun on duty.  Yet they have to know how.  They are trained, and the training is paid for by the department.  Why?  Because it is a skill that in the really real world, most people do not possess.  A very small amount of people honestly know how to hold and shoot a hand gun properly, it's not something you just tend to be able to know already.

A private service bus, that is to say one that goes and picks up the elderly or physically challenged, requires that everyone on staff while the bus is in motion know at least CPR.  CPR is easy to a hold of.  There is no excuse to not know CPR except that you never took the time of day to learn it.  Very few will teach you.

See that?
Common skill vs. unique skill.  One will train you, and the other is apparently evil.  What ever will you do when all your neighbors know CPR and you don't.




I'm 25 years old in a neighborhood where most people do not speak English.  I speak one language.  What the fuck is my excuse if it's so damned horrible.  My area is nicked NEW NEW MEXICO.  Street signs are IN SPANISH.  The Walmart has it's ad in SPANISH.
How the hell do I have jobs CONSTANTLY if it's so horrible for someone with no knowledge to have a local job when so many places require bilingual abilities?

You can run in circles all you like.
Here I'll help you, we're Americans damn it learn our non official language err get out and don't steal our jurbs.  There repeat that till your blue in the face, you'll still be wrong.  You'll just be blue too.  At least something about your argument would change then.

 

[thelivingphoenix]

The difference when you're talking about CPR and shooting is the fact that both involve life and death.  If a police officer doesn't know how to shoot his gun correctly, he might miss and hit a completely innocent, uninvolved person and KILL THEM.  It's almost the same thing with having to learn CPR to take that other job.  Life and death.  Knowing Spanish to be able to serve someone a burger isn't a matter of life and death.  Your comparisons are involving life and death; knowing Spanish to take someone's order for a burger isn't.  It's not a matter of life and death, it's not, it's not, it's NOT.

If someone doesn't get their English word right, they won't likely keel over from getting a burger that was improperly "dressed".  You live in an English-speaking NATION where 8 out of 10 people speak English as their first language, not their second.

Take Waco, Texas.  23% of people there might speak Spanish as their first language (taking into account people with a Hispanic heritage that do speak English as a first language, not a second) and you STILL have to be bilingual to work at a McDonald's.  How do I know?  Because my business partner lived there only a year or so ago and had relatives that were turned down for a job there because they couldn't speak Spanish.  7 out of 10 people (judging from demographics) speak English as their first language there, so it's not like we're dealing with a "Chinatown" or a "New New Mexico" type situation here.  We're not talking about a tight knit immigrant community where everybody speaks Spanish or Chinese or whatever the language may be, we're talking mainly about places where they are a minority within a community.

Nice, by the way, insulting people is what you do when you don't have anything better to say.

 

[Sic Semper Tyranosaurus]

The difference when you're talking about CPR and shooting is the fact that both involve life and death.

A three year old Guatemalan boy is going into anaphylactic shock in the McD's you work at. His mother babbles some incomprehensible Mexxykan talk at you while the person who sold them the food just shrugs and goes back to mopping. Was it the onions they couldn't pick out of the melted cheese, the cucumber pickles, or the red dye in the ketchup?

You don't fucking know, do you?

EDIT

Finally, Tensuke, somebody who agrees with me.

Fixed.

 

[Venetia]

ughghgghghghghghghghghgh

This topic is not "Should America Have English as its National Language?"!!!!!!!

LOOK.

I agree that, when a person relocates to a country, they should learn the lingo. I'm not going to move to Russia and then demand that everyone there learn English.

But guess what--There are enough Spanish-speakers (I say that because Puerto Ricans and Cubans are included in the mix, not just Mexykerms) in the country, that people who only speak Spanish can get by without learning more than very sparse English, if any at all.

And those Spanish Speakers have money (usually not much) that they'd like to part with.

And who takes the money?

Businesses!

And what businesses are they more likely to patronize?

Ones with Bilingual Employees!

So how do businesses around them make more money?

By requiring atleast some of their employees to be bilingual!

I know what you're going through. You're in California. I used to live there. A LOT of businesses there require bilingual people. But not all of them. Probably not even 40% of them. Unless you're looking for a job near a Barrio.

My advice? Get outta the service industry! Because newsflash: when you don't serve people, ya don't have to speak their language!

NOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHING the govm't does should EVEREVEREVEREVER stop a business from making money or serving a client base, unless it infringes on the welfare/basic rights of people/wildlife. And it is not YOUR RIGHT to have a job! For all Uncle Sam cares, you can be unemployed!

And if it really matters that much that you get a job in the service industry, taking 2 semesters of Spanish at a community college is usually enough to say you're proficient in Spanish.

So there's really not a huge amount to bitch about.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Nice, by the way, insulting people is what you do when you don't have anything better to say.

When I move to insult you, you'll know.
I've done nothing but say you're argument is roundabout, and implied that if it's so horrible to get a job when you aren't bilingual where a small percentage of the minority speaks Spanish, how come it's not so horrible in a place covered in Spanish with the same issue of not being bilingual?

As for what Vennie said, yeah but that's the thing.
Most people don't move to the US and demand we learn their language.  It's usually natives who try to reach out and, as certain people above would say, "cater" to immigrants that causes so must misguided hate.



EDIT:
There are thousands of deaf Americans, and thousands who can not read and write.
Should we demand that menial jobs not need hearing and/or force the ability to have any communication verbally and/or in writing?  I would not hire a deaf guy in an office where communications, such as over a phone, over a cubical, or through a com system is extremely important.  Likewise I would not hire someone who can not read to work at a restaurant where the monitor types out the name of the meal they are meant to put together.

Look.  I'm busting on both poor innercity youths with no education, and the deaf - but no one cares.  It's funny how everyone gets all upset over the Spanish speaking community but no one gives two shits about the Polish/German speaking communities or the French speaking knits up north and spread fairly wide.  There are places in the US where it's the same exact thing, just replace Spanish with those languages, Italian or Hewbrew - but it's those damn pesky Mexicans and their cousins who are so wrong.

I swear this country is racist and the worse part is it'll defend how it isn't by implying it is.

 

[Sic Semper Tyranosaurus]

Look.  I'm busting on both poor innercity youths with no education, and the deaf - but no one cares.  It's funny how everyone gets all upset over the Spanish speaking community but no one gives two shits about the Polish/German speaking communities or the French speaking knits up north and spread fairly wide.  There are places in the US where it's the same exact thing, just replace Spanish with those languages, Italian or Hewbrew - but it's those damn pesky Mexicans and their cousins who are so wrong.

I swear this country is racist and the worse part is it'll defend how it isn't by implying it is.

But... Butbutbut! Brown people! 

 

[kaze950]

There is no official language of the US, since it's set to be the language of the people.  Since the people are different region to region, you would exclude a huge populous doing certain things.  For example setting up only allowing Spanish in school, when in certain areas you'd get further locally speaking French, Italian, or whatever.

Actually, in the majority of the states, English is the official language.

IMO, unless the job requires knowing a language or the majority of the clients do not speak english, a business shouldn't hire people just because they don't speak a foreign language.

Likewise, I think almost every job should require the employee to know English. It is the official language of many states, and not to mention the de facto language of the country. Its quite annoying to ask an employee something, and get "que?" as an answer.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

There is no official language of the US, since it's set to be the language of the people.  Since the people are different region to region, you would exclude a huge populous doing certain things.  For example setting up only allowing Spanish in school, when in certain areas you'd get further locally speaking French, Italian, or whatever.

No it's not.  It's the most common language today, not the official.  States do not have official languages.  They have official seals, birds, their own flags and slogans - but no language.

Don't forget in the American Revolution there were more Dutch speakers in parts of the US than English speakers.  During the Louisiana Purchase until about the time of the Gold Rush of 76 there were more French and Spanish speakers in the territory than English speakers.

To this day there are large knit communities in Brooklyn and every borough really that speak an ethnic language more than the "common" English.  Three blocks down from me not one store has a sign in English first, it's Spanish with English as a tag along.  Five blocks in the other direction and two blocks down everything is in English and Chinese.

Where you people live, sure maybe it's different.  But here, in my neighborhood the only separation isn't immigrant or not, it isn't a language barrier (Though fuck it really should be with all the clans), it's a social barrier.  The poor, the poorer, and the just at the poverty level but we'll call them "Middle Class" because they're white.

Even the Senate tried to vote an amendment to the immigration reform that would declare English as the national language.  Making it an official language.  That was passed May 25, 2006 but expired when the House of Representatives couldn't agree on anything.  Including if English should be forced as a language.

And thank god they didn't.

 

[thelivingphoenix]

The problem with what you’re calling ”Mexicans” and I call “illegal aliens” is that they are exactly that as a majority: illegal. So, why are the “illegals” held to a different standard than Americans and legal aliens are? You say there is no difference of standards? Let’s take a look at the root of the problem, the motives and/or reasons that the media and people are causing a stir on this to the point of throwing insults at each other.

Let’s start with the standard to comparing this to being handicapped. I would not consider refusing to learn English a handicap. If an alien comes to the United States and wishes to live here permanently, they are required to apply for citizenship. A work visa and a student visa are the only exceptions. This means that they will be required to learn English to become a permanent member of the U.S. and to have the same rights and privileges that Americans have, unless you’re born here or are 55 and have had your green card for 15 years or are 50 and have had your green card for twenty years.  Those are fairly extreme circumstances and are not the norm.  Most people who are born here speak English as their first language.  A large portion of people born here who don't speak English as their first language are because their parents are illegal, in which case everyone but the mother can be legally deported.  And actually, it was the mother’s intention to circumvent the law by coming here specifically to have a baby on American soil so she could stay here, so they should both go back where they came from.  Unlike handicapped people who are born with a physical and/or mental problem, there is a choice that is made to or not to speak a language just like there is a choice that is made to cross the border illegally.  You make that choice and you deal with the consequences.

If you are illegal and have avoided the rightful and legal process to stay in this country, then you are a criminal and have no right to any job regardless of your language abilities. There are over 28 documented states that have made English the official language of their state. They can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-only_movement . Now, let’s dig a little deeper on the argument that the U.S. does not have the English language as the official language.

It is 100% accurate to state that to become a U.S. citizen you must learn English if you enter this country and wish to stay and live your life here UNLESS you want to wait 15 to 20 years to take the citizenship test in your own language and even then, you have to be over 50 or 55.  It is called becoming a citizen of the United States of America. Now, the thinking behind this is that a law is an official document, and is enforced as official. So, if English is the only language the citizenship test is given in unless you meet the requirements listed above for being over 50 or 55, then technically, I would feel safe in assuming that English is the official language of the United States of America, especially since at least 28 states have made English their official language and the Supreme Court has done nothing and will do nothing to stop the states from taking this action. It is forged on official documents passed by officially elected officials and lawmakers and are supposed to be enforced by law enforcement officials. How much more “official” do you need? It's not on the books in less than half of the states, but it's the official language of the majority of the United States.

As far as cops and medical personnel being compared to minimum wage and entry level workers... A police officer is required to get special training to be able to do his job, usually at a special school called a police academy.  He is a skilled worker.  A minimum wage or entry level employee is considered an unskilled worker.  This is to ensure that he knows a sufficient amount of law to know when and how to respond and the physical capability of responding reasonably to situations he/she might commonly be placed into. A police officer also has to become proficient in the use of weapons, tactics for use when dealing with intoxicated and “high” suspects, legal paperwork, and many other things that pertain specifically to his/her job. Concerning the medical training, like CPR, this again is a job that has specific job requirements due to a very targeted clientèle, specifically those who have specific elderly or physically challenged people only, and I can assure you that CPR is not the only training needed to fit this job. There are many other training techniques that are necessary to fill a position like this. I would even go as far as to say that even the driver of the bus needs special training and license. The very least amount required would be a CDL. It takes formal training to get this and is not considered an “entry level job” as far as the normal standards of “entry level”.

A job that requires special training cannot be related and compared to an entry level job where you are supposed to have entry level skills. Are you trying to compare apples against oranges?

Now, let’s take a look at the real problems that you support by supporting the language requirement by greed-minded employers. But, I have a question for you. Would you defend someone who robs you, your neighbors, your local government, your state government, and your federal government? Would you harbor and support a felon? Or someone known to commit felonies? A thief, a robber, a rapist?

Source: the LA Times, June 2002:

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A.County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak Spanish

(All 10 from the Los Angeles Times)

Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops but 29% are on welfare. See...

http://www.cis.org/

Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from immigration.

The cost of illegal immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was a NET (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay) $70 BILLION a year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University].

The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE.

29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.


Now, the first one states that 4 out of 10 “workers” are “illegal” and yes, that average includes McDonald's, But what makes this important is the second one. Here, I will quote it so you do not have to scroll back up to get it, “2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.”

Wow, it is kind of impressive to know that if you are supporting the language requirements imposed by greedy employers for low wage earners that you are an active supporter of murderers, rapists, child molesters, and other felons since 4 out of every 10 “workers” (in that area, at least) are illegal. I wonder what the statistics are in other areas where the bilingual requirement for entry-level jobs is pushed?

I could go on for hours and hours calling out criminal supporters based on this small list of information alone. I could actually go a lot deeper into them and would probably have enough evidence under the Patriot Act to accuse every supporter of violations according to the wording of that particular Act of Congress.

So, if you are an American, how can you support the hiring of bilingual employees whose purpose is mainly to cater to a growing illegal immigrant population? The felonious acts that now common in our streets and overcrowding our prisons are due to illegal criminals. I mean, if they were illegal by coming here without legal and due process, what would make you think that they would not commit other crimes while they're here?

There is a major difference between being racist, biased, and uneducated, and just being down right foolish enough to imply ignorance and practicing childish attacks when you have not completed any research on both sides of the issue. What you assume are racist remarks are actually educated and unbiased remarks with the ability to see the whole of the problem instead of just the surface.

I know that since I made a comment that I am originally from Tennessee that you assumed I wasn't educated when the fact is that I do have some formal education. But, maybe it is time for some Tennessee wisdom?  I was always told that there are 2 kinds of fools. The first kind is the one that stands firm on their doctrine without ever investigating both sides, and refuses to even take a look the other side of the argument. This is the dishonest fool. But, there is also an honest fool. That is someone who has made a judgment based on the information that they currently had.

Now it is your responsibility to take the small amount of information I have provided and go and learn more from my side of the argument and see if you are still willing to stand with the crowd or stand for the country you were born in and protect it by stopping the flow of crime from people who do not care about you or the country you say you love.

By supporting bilingual job requirements in what are supposed to be entry-level positions, you are supporting illegal immigration and the hiring of illegal immigrants.  8 of 10 people in this country know only English.  I’m not against having bilingual employees, I’m against openly stating in a job ad that you prefer to hire someone who knows a second language (i.e. Spanish) for what is supposed to be an entry-level position.  It relates directly back to illegal immigration and crime.  Stop catering to a growing illegal immigrant population which will eventually ruin this country.  Illegals lower the standard of living of almost everyone around them and the only ones who benefit are those that illegally hire them.  This is one of the ways that the middle class is slowly being destroyed and once the economy of the United States tanks due to illegal immigration and a few other significant factors, where are the people crossing the border illegally from Mexico going to immigrate to, then?  By flooding in across the border the way they do every year, they're slowly, but surely destroying the chance for prosperity that those who come and live here legally have.

And by the way, Sic, your “butbutbut, brown people! ” post above adds absolutely nothing intelligent to the discussion and serves no purpose but to insult me and anyone who agrees with me on this issue.  Thus, it needs to be removed by a moderator or an admin on the grounds that it is both spam and can be construed as flaming.  And not that anyone’s probably going to do anything about it, but the misspellings of “Mexican” and “jobs” are also obviously meant to insult me by implying that I’m both a racist and some sort of backwater hick, possibly or even probably because I mentioned that I’m from Tennessee.  I was trying to ignore it, but since at least 3 of you have done it, I finally decided to address it as a problem. You could be a little more mature than that.

 

[So fist]

Thelivingphoenix,

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp

Please refrain from posting random statistics from emails with incorrect and unattributable sources.  Most of these are truthy in that they are massaged, misrepresented and taken out of context, others are simply unattributed and could be completely made up for all we know.  None even come from the source they purport to come from.  If you want to talk statistics take them from published reports in the future.  If you make a fake but accurate argument I might lose my mind.

 

[Dissonance]

Look.  I'm busting on both poor innercity youths with no education, and the deaf - but no one cares.  It's funny how everyone gets all upset over the Spanish speaking community but no one gives two shits about the Polish/German speaking communities or the French speaking knits up north and spread fairly wide.  There are places in the US where it's the same exact thing, just replace Spanish with those languages, Italian or Hewbrew - but it's those damn pesky Mexicans and their cousins who are so wrong.

I swear this country is racist and the worse part is it'll defend how it isn't by implying it is.

I give two shits about them.  If I were to put myself in an English speaking American's shoes for a minute... Fuck French, Italian, Spanish, Polish, Portuguese, German, Greek, Hebrew, Russian, Swedish, blah blah blah.  You want to have it as your first language and speak it at home?  Great, have English as a second.  Period.  This applies to every language on the planet that is not English.

As a Canadian, we have English and French as our two official languages, and we require everybody to have a working knowledge of at least one of them to enter, no exceptions.

Back on topic - The only jobs that should require a language proficiency that is other than the country's OFFICIAL LANGUAGE (god USA define it already you fags) is if you are dealing with users of that other language in an official capacity.

Official capacity - translation jobs, dealing with tourists, embassy work, dealing with refugee-status immigrants

NOT Official capacity - person at McDonalds, illegal immigrant or not, who doesn't know English or for whatever reason refuses to speak it.  That person doesn't get their burger, and nine times out of ten shouldn't even be in the country.