School = Success?

[Zeriab]

Skirtboy is quite right.
The trust associated with getting degrees in very technical subjects should not be underestimated. Particularly in areas with tough security and health requirements.

You could in theory teach yourself all you need to know, but from an employer's point of view it will be a much bigger risk to employ you. You can tackle the problem with getting loads of certificates and etc, but I am sure that's long-winded and expensive as well.

 

[Feldschlacht IV]

The thing is, if you're not counting the degree, college is still too expensive to learn a whole bunch of generalities I could teach myself.

Would you be comfortable driving over a bridge built by a self-taught civil engineer? Or flying in a plane designed by someone who learned aerodynamics from wikipedia?

Trust me. If you plan to do ANYTHING technical in your life (Science, Engineering, architecture, medicine etc.) you can not tech yourself all you need to know. General subjects, maybe. Arts, definitely. But anything math-based, forget it.

Ah yes, that's true. I'm not saying that everyone should ditch college and start teaching themselves quantum physics, but there has to be some sort of change in how college is financed and the cost vs. how much you actually get for it. I understand the importance of college, but it needs a major restructuring.

 

[e]

Actually, you can teach yourself anything; having a degree doesn't mean that you learned in school, it just means you've passed the examinations, and that's usually enough. I don't go to most of my college classes because all they do is rehash the notes in class, something I can do on my own from home. All they require is that I show some proof of proficiency at the end, and that's what's school is about: it gives your future employer a certification that you can do this and that.

If you're going to be your own employer, then I guess the point is moot, but having a college degree generally helps.

I'm partly lying; college did teach me a few things, but it's mostly a way of thinking, of communicating, of organizing. It gave me a useful methodology, but in terms of strictly technical knowledge, I learned more from the textbooks/notes than from the teachers themselves. But that's at the undergraduate level (which I haven't completed yet, so idk). Maybe it's different afterwards.

 

[Feldschlacht IV]

I don't think you can teach yourself everything because there's only things you can learn through having a teacher (i.e. instruction) and such.

 

[Venetia]

venetia everything is a huge rip-off now-a-days, but you're going to have a harder time succeeding in an art-related field if you don't go to school for it. it's worth it imo.

Not that much harder, actually!
I always figured it'd be very difficult to get into game design without a specialized degree. I found out that it really isn't very different in the employers' minds from just having a nice portfolio.

I will agree with you on that for culinary arts and fashion. But for things like graphic design--well, I'm a graphic artist, and I don't have ANY school for it. And the job makes chicken scratch, unless you make a name for yourself in a big way. So paying off that $80k student loan will be no walk in the park!

A general "art" degree from a university will usually net you the same results, just not QUITE as fast, but a HELL of a lot cheaper (esp if you're transferring in from community college halfway through). You have to do more learning on your own, but if you're passionate about the career, you'll already be good/working on getting good on your own.

 

[Ellie]

$80k!? Jesus. Ok in America it might not be worth it. :S

In the UK you're talking £3k a year tuition MAX.

 

[tofurkey]

The most important part about college is not so much what you learn, but it's more of proof that you have the aptitude to do the work in the first place. That's why employers are so interested in seeing that you have a college degree: it shows that you were able to put forth significant effort on your own accord.

You could argue that you learn the same skills in high school, but realistically, the vast majority of high school students are still dependent on an adult while applying these skills, so it isn't really good enough of an example.

As for tuition, it's true that it's a little pricy, but the price of the university often scales with the prestige. Saying one college is "better" than another isn't quite accurate--the proper term would probably be "reputable." Your college education ultimately comes down to what you put into it as well as the individual professors that you have. As such, if you're looking to go to college just to learn or just for the sake of having a degree, then it's better to just go to a cheaper institution as you could probably get a similar education as a more prestigious university. Otherwise, the more expensive universities will generally lead to more options--not necessarily better salaries.

The bottom line is, as many before me have said, that it really depends on what you want to go to college for in the first place.

 

[skirtboy]

Actually, you can teach yourself anything; having a degree doesn't mean that you learned in school, it just means you've passed the examinations, and that's usually enough. I don't go to most of my college classes because all they do is rehash the notes in class, something I can do on my own from home. All they require is that I show some proof of proficiency at the end, and that's what's school is about: it gives your future employer a certification that you can do this and that.

If you're going to be your own employer, then I guess the point is moot, but having a college degree generally helps.

I'm partly lying; college did teach me a few things, but it's mostly a way of thinking, of communicating, of organizing. It gave me a useful methodology, but in terms of strictly technical knowledge, I learned more from the textbooks/notes than from the teachers themselves. But that's at the undergraduate level (which I haven't completed yet, so idk). Maybe it's different afterwards.

And what, might I ask, is your major?

 

[e]

Computer Science.

Double major, actually; computer science and English literature, with some electives in music. Like I said, college was great for self discipline and work methodology, but other than exposing me to things I might've overlooked on my own, I never actually needed the teachers. Just having the class notes and content was enough. At least so far it is.

 

[skirtboy]

Both of those are of the sort which are much easier to teach yourself. Computer technology changes so rapidly that even the most learned professor has to study to keep up, while English literature is extremely subjective, so all you're intended to get out of it is the thinking and analysis skills. More technical subjects are simply different.

 

[Surmuck]

Yeah but the degree proves you learned it, or at the very least - did well enough on the tests.

Sorry kids, but 'self-taught' doesn't go on record anywhere but a portfolio. So if that's the way your going, you really have to make your portfolio count.

 

[Zeriab]

Not necessarily skirtboy. Once again it depends you as a person.
I learn far better from structured education like what I get at the university than were I to do self-study alone.
Having a mentor gives almost always a better result for me than were I to learn it by myself.
Of course that's just how it is for me. How to learn the best differs from individual to individual.

Surmie got a point in that employers don't like self-taught, but that barrier is only really a problem for getting the first job. If you get the first job and do it well, then you being self-taught doesn't really matter.

*hugs*
- Zeriab

 

[Wolfgang]

Going to school is not a %100 garuntee that you will get a job and have a family of three kids with your beautiful wife/handsome husband in a $120,000 home with a SUV and a Corvet waiting for you in the driveway. These are lies.

Highschool can hardly prepare anyone today for the real world. Colleges have to reteach their students the basics of reading, writing, math, and science in order to bring them up to a level where they can start learning new material. Highschool teachers are not doing their jobs right! Either that or the students are failing to learn. Even when one gets out of college, life will not become easier.

What schooling really is, is a chance to learn all that you can so that you will be prepared to fight for what you can get in life. It definitely gives you a leg up on the rest of the pack (the dropouts), but it will not hand the keys to the kingdom over to you. You will still have to strive for what you can get.

 

[Venetia]

Heh around here a $120,000 house would buy you a piece of crap on the wrong side of town :P
Hell, my townhouse is worth $190. And Florida is a fairly inexpensive state to live in.

 

[Venetia]

And I disagree, a lot of people get by without a full college education. I have a respectable job and a nice place and a nice car and I only went to a year of college (and it didn't teach me jack shit). And a lot of people just BS their ways through college and never really learn anything outside of how to fuck up a trigonometry equation.

College is only a necessity as a piece of paper to show off to interviews for higher callings, to tell your employers that you have some sticktoitiveness and some higher learning. It is not a guarantee that you will retain that knowledge, nor is it a necessity for you to have that knowledge in the first place. I think it's a large, expensive waste of time for the most part. But much of society (the people with the jobs to give out anyway) views it differently.

Experience almost always trumps college education. But the trick is getting your foot in the door to acquire said experience!

 

[Wolfgang]

I didn't say that college was the end all to be all, but I was saying that a college education can help you get a leg up on everyone else, but (Note!) it has to be used correctly. If you learn from your classes properly and get the hands on experience you need (alot of college classes have this, if yours didn't, then you were cheated out of your money and time) then you can have a better chance then most. Overall, effort is more important then anything, but education can help. Doesn't mean it will... most people waste what is handed to them.