Please Get Off Your High Horse, World

[Venetia]

Spoiler: I think this is original ...

I haven't seen a debate like it, atleast not within the most recent 5 pages.

Also this is aimed at everyone from everywhere. If you think you're being singled out ... Well, quit being pretentious.

Har, har. If you point out the hypocritical statement there you win a cookie.

Is it really United States of America vs. The World?

I'm R-E-A-L-L-Y sick of seeing these people from other countries badmouthing the country I live in. I swear, I barely hear a pretentious thing about anyone else.

What I'm trying to say is: Shut the hell up. Not just you, everybody.

I know I'm opening a can of worms here but it's getting very old. It's not just the internet. It's television, radio, word of mouth. The fashionable thing to do these days is talk bad about The United States. Even fellow Americans (mostly, liberals) put down their own country--usually to make themselves look better and more "cerebral".

There are a lot of problems going on in the country, especially now, what with "the war" and everything. It's easy to imitate cookie-cutter statements about the intricate political workings of a country that you've undoubtedly overheard some pundit mention. But it's not so easy to actually sit back and really take in other opinions or appreciate past actions, and the fact that you really don't have the slightest clue about what you're speaking of.

Even if you are very learned in politics, does it give you the right to drag our flag through the proverbial mud?

You're allowed to have opinions, I have no problem with it. But sit back and consider: is it really your opinion? Or are you just trying to be a fashionable elitist who's pretending to have a well-developed and highly organized speculation on something you actually don't care two shits about? How many times have you said, "Oh, hey, a story on Iraq. I think I'll read it", or "Wow! A legitimate discussion on the financial assessment of America, I think I'll sit down and have a gander!"?

I keep seeing people suck in and fart out the bull that big media presents to the people. Yeah, BBC included, since they're the biggest media of all.

How easy is it to say:

• "Americans are the world police!"
• "America doesn't care about its people because they have no universal health care."
• "America is way in debt!"

But how hard is it to follow up those blanket statements when asked:

• "You realize that it's not just America in the middle east, right? Also, do you think the Iraqis are better off with Hussein? Do you honestly think that sitting back and doing nothing with our thumbs up our asses speaks louder than action when attacked within our own border?"
• "America has a much larger population than, say, Canada. Canada has ~33 million people. The U.S. has ~301 million people. 21% of the U.S.'s overall spending budget is allocated in Social Security already. Would the current step toward Universal Health care be approved (H. Clinton's idea), it would cost upwards of $130 billion/year, increasing every year. That's more than the education budget. Also, in countries with U.H.Care, waiting lists can become indeterminably long and doctors become less efficient, being able to spend only a fraction of the time with patients. How do you propose we get around this enormous speed bump? More taxation?"
• "After World War II, nearly all of Europe was decimated. Who supplied vast, vast sums of money to get these countries restored? Also, it still stands that the U.S. has the highest GDP as a single country (as the E.U. is a conglomeration of countries), trumping the runner-up by nearly $9T USD. Statistically, although the value of a USD has decreased worldwide, the stock markets are still at a high. What say you to that?"

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So in summation, if you're "against" the U.S., why do you feel you can make such pretentious and uncalled-for statements about the country?

If I wanted your opinion I'd ask. I never say anything bad about other countries.

So here's your chance to pose your opinion, when it's called for. Your (atleast somewhat) EDUCATED opinion. I'm tired of the pundit-imitation.
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I'm sure I'll get all sorts of opinions from folks who didn't even read half this rant but if you read only one thing, read this:

PLEASE make an educated statement to defend your case. I know many of you will defer to blanket statements about "The Iraqs" and "President Bush" but PLEASE provide some details.

ALSO this is not about the upcoming elections. I don't care what you think about so-and-so here.

 

[DerVVulfman]

Thank you... tired of it too.

 

[Cruelty]

walloftext
first wall of text i've actually read in a long time tbh.

:}

nice post.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

America is an easy target. It's popular, and there's nothing an American can say.

The moment someone from the USA defends anything or talks back, it falls under "Redneck Pride", the Cowboy Syndrome of ignorant Yankee Doodles who look at a the world from a soapbox filled with ammo and dynamite.

 

[Ratty524]

The reason why you are the only person I actually like on this forum is because of such statements. They are educated and easy to understand, and if you can get MY attention, then you officially rule my world. :D

 

[Anglachel]

I like in Australia so you might say I know fuck all about America. However I have spoke out about George Bush on the forums. Can you blame me? My dad thinks he is satan, every facet of the media is absolutely burning him, so what am I going to think?

I don't say anything because it's 'fasionable'. I couldn't give a shit.

I don't know anything about your healthcare or debt, but even if you don't realise it everything you do affects us massively here in Australia. Our primeminister, John Howard, has be reffered to as Bonsai. AKA mini-Bush.

As for the war in Iraq, try telling this stuff to all the innocent children that died.

I probably don't know half as much as I think I do. I really have nothing about America. This post was probably in no way directed at me.

I need to vent some steam. Forums probably not the best place to do it...

 

[Lackluster]

Who cares about what other people say about the U.S.? They don't know shit.

 

[$t3v0]

Why don't they, Lackluster? You don't have to live in a country to know events that go on o.o; (Everyone on this forum seems to be a pretty big expert on Japan because it's "cool")

I do find it a bit boring when people make "blank statements" about the US just because everybody else does. Your statement about the reparation funding to Europe was a good one, And very true! But your troops were in the war like everybody else, So why should you not input some of the cost? The reason your sum was so large is (I'm guessing) because your economy back then was much stronger due to your late arrival after Pearl Harbour. Other countries that attended the Yalta conference (England & Russia) had been in it from the start, Or joined a year or two into it. And were still paying the costs of World war I.

In MY opinion, Your GOVERNMENT are like little kids with a new toy. The new toy being power (Which you've never really had before).

 

[Ellie]

I don't think it's necessarily America as a country that people bash, rather when they talk about America they mean George W. Bush.

America went to war with Iraq... Well, Americans as a whole don't make the decision,s it's up to the presidency.

Britain joined them. No, Tony Blair and his government did.

Obviously it's still not the president / PM personally, they have their advisors, their government, they vote within their party. But it's the presidency, the government, the powers that be, that ultimately decide the fate of a country, and it just happens that this fate also decides what the media and the rest of the world think of that country.

Also, America is so easy to bash, mainly because nobody outside of America tends to know anything about America. It's like... for the sake of a bad analogy, RPG Maker VX. 40 pages of people bashing it, yet nobody's tried it yet.

 

[Anonymous]

i think america bashing is cute, honestly. especially now that england's about to celebrate new years 1984. i mean america is in a pretty bad state right now (economy's a mess, government is shit, most upcoming presidential candidates are humongous faggots, too many fundamentalists, the list goes on), but every country's been fucked in the past. i don't think it has anything to do with a HIGH HORSE - i think it has to do with the fact that america is a globally-recognized name, and right now the person speaking to the world under that name is one of the most hated men alive. now if grand high empress clinton or mr. 9/11 win the upcoming election i'm pretty sure that the america hate will continue for another four to eight years, but if not then i'm fairly sure everyone will get over it. eventually everyone will be back to insulting russia or some shit.

 

[JakeyZombie]

I'm not reading that whole first post, I read enough though.

I don't think I see America singled out too often, to be honest. If you haven't noticed, the media in your country tends to single out a lot of other countries/minorities, or is that just me?

I think Americans are pretty pretentious in my opinion.

 

[Cruelty]

united states media is too busy trying to make every little thing look like a national disaster to take the time to 'single out' any other countries for any reason. :l

 

[Roman Candle]

most upcoming presidential candidates are humongous faggots, too many fundamentalists

:D

Ultimately, if you get uptight about it, it's your own fault. If you take people seriously who don't have serious opinions, you will not live a happy life. America is unpopular. No one likes it, because it behaves not only in a way that people don't like but with impunity. Deal with it.

 

[topman]

Well then, I can't really comment on the war in Iraq or the financial situation because I am neither a soldier, politician or a financial adviser, but I can say this.

I went to America last year with my brother, and at first I was nervous, not because of terrorism (it's world wide so it's no different where ever I go) or because guns are legal (they are a right in Switzerland and I have been there).

It was because of all the stories you hear everyone talk about, and most of them haven't even been to America. I won't go into detail of the stories because you probably already know them.

But when we arrived it was just the same as going to a different city in my own country (England), they had jerks but so does every other country, although it was very crowded and nobody queues in shops and the like, people where generally the same as they are in England.

And no, one of the big stories you hear are how dumb Americans are, They are NOT, they do have dumb people in their society but who doesn't, they have the largest corporations in America and they are widely spread, whereas in England you tend to only see things like that in London.

It isn't worth much, and I was one who used to judge other countries by the stories you hear (not any more I have learned my lesson) but at the same time I never spoke out about it, I may have mentioned one or two things, but I have my own country to complain about, and it does have it's problems just like everywhere else.

I am not a fan of patriotism, but I love my country, and I love any country, although there are certain ones that I wouldn't visit.

 

[Rye]

I don't really care if people bash America and how stupid it's been, but I hate it when people autoamtically assume that all American's are the same and LOVE what everyone hates. :\ I don't automatically assume all Canadians LOVE hocky, I don't assume all Britians have bad teeth and drink tea!

Otherwise, let people say what they will. If they feel like making stereotypical assumptions of a country and never bothering to research or whatever, then let them. I've never been one to care what people think of who I am and where I live.

Besides, it's obviously WHY we're getting so much crap--we're powerful and we're abusing that power. We're popular and right now, we relatively suck and have an idiot in power. We pretty much have a target on our heads asking for it in a way. :\ Not all of us individually, of course, but a good majority.

 

[holloway]

Stupid cookie cutter "Greenday" comments about America - Fucking stupid

Actually intelligent/ sensible criticisms - Perfectly fine

I don't see how there is anything wrong with such statements- your country IS unpopular, can you blame everyone for feeling this way? Iraq involved many other nations, that is very true, and anyone simply saying "BUSH SUX FUCKING UP IRAQ" should deserve a good kicking. But do note that, as it stands, many see the US as warmongering for repeatedly, heck even today, pushing Iran further and further away from making alliances with Europe and other nations. They're also seen as the forbearer for the fact that your president is hardly a great public figure. Blair, for all his faults, was a very good public speaker, but Bush made himself a public figure of criticism.

Edit: It also doesn't help when your one main link to the rest of the world, the media, is generally a shambles. I mean, Fox for gods sakes.

 

[Venetia]

I'm actually impressed and relieved to get such a good number of opinions here with statements to back them up. So thanks :').

I'm well aware that the U.S., by and large, is unliked currently. But what I don't understand is why the media insists on making it worse. The war in Iraq is by F-A-R a war with an extremely low number of casualties. It's very like Vietnam in that there is no clear and concise enemy, as there was in WWII, and the media is more powerful than ever.

The reason why America came out smelling like roses from WWII is because what little media there was was owned largely by governmental and government-sanctioned stations. The reason we're coming out smelling like turds nowadays is because the media is now a huge coporate entity completely absolved of the government.

That wouldn't be a bad thing, I say down with big government--I'm a libertarian if I'm anything. Except, the news has become a massive cash cow. They pander to the dark stories of 12 kids getting blown up and dwell on it for 3 days, then briefly mention the huge victory of a terrorist encampment being occupied for about 3 seconds.

Why? Ratings!! Kids being blown up = $$$$$. Terrorists being blown up = Ho hum.

Financially and socially, I think we should become isolationist again (unfortunately, realistically, that's not really an option). The military budget is bleeding us dry. But even still our economy isn't "in the pits" just because we have a bloated deficit. It just means we have a bloated deficit. Wartime does that to every country.

However, can you imagine the world were we to become isolationist again? We provide such a ridiculous sum of money in aid to foreign countries they'd spend generations recouping.

It's not that I'm personally offended by anti-Americans, it's that I'm abhorrent of blanket statements and liberal pandering without atleast some of the facts. I've visited a few other countries. I think they're freaking fantastic and I love everyone but ignorant people.

It would be pretentious of me to sling degradations at other countries just as much as it would be were I to own a hybrid car and talk bad about trucks. Fact of the matter is, trucks are useful, even if they guzzle gas, so thumbing your nose at them for only one thing leads to nothing but blanket statements and stereotyping. (That was a very blatent metaphor. Please no one start up on hybrids v. trucks)

 

[rexxzecutioner]

This falls under the same thing that happens when anyone makes blanket generalizations about ANYTHING. False claims and unwarranted insults have been occuring forever, the target being America makes no difference in their uselessness. It's easy to have an uneducated opinion and follow a trend but you know what? Shit like this always happens and complaining about it will not stop it.

 

[Venetia]

I know, I'm not expecting people to stop. I just wanted to rant about something. If even one person read it and went, "you know, I think I'll keep my highly flammable, uneducated opinions to myself", it's a win. Likely? No. But that doesn't stop me from bitching about it :')

 

[lunarea]

A movie star could spend a year in Africa feeding children out of their own pocket and helping education, and yet what the media will focus on is the scandal of their underwear is showing in a picture snapped as they're getting out of the car to head home.

People don't want to see and listen to how great others are. That makes them feel bad about themselves. They crave the drama; they want to feel superior to all those people on TV. Why do you think Reality TV is so popular? Or soap operas? It's sure not because they take after the real life. It's that drama factor, and the fact that if we need focus on something else, we forget how problematic our own lives are.

People outside of U.S. see America as the bad guy because it's so much more fun to focus on how someone else is screwing up. Oh, it just makes us all forget that our country's got problems too! Meanwhile, the U.S. will point at all those countries and whine about how they're misunderstood - all the while telling themselves that they're lucky because all those countries are in the Dark Ages when it comes to many of the US ideals.

Personally, I chuck up the whole thing to just stereotypes. Media enforces them, people believe in them. Save for changing the mind of an individual, none of us is going to even make a ripple in the pond - regardless of how hard we try.