My BIG issue with SC4 online

[Despain]

I don't like how that article considers People who play for fun and People who play to win as being mutually exclusive.

It doesn't. People who play to win are still playing for fun -- but their level of fun is different, it's more involved and more mental than "ooh look at how Ivy's boobs are jiggling".

I used to be a MASSIVE "timmy" player but more recently I've moved into "spike" territory (mtg terms but they apply to all games really, Timmies play to EXPERIENCE something and Spikes play to PROVE something (ie. to win)).

Having people doing the same move over and over again is boring.
I tried playing against one on Soul Caliber 2 which kept doing the same move even after I learned to counter it and kept crushing her. I didn't play very long since it was too boring as you might guess. (It was like playing against a training dummy.)

then you played against a fucing idiot. people who spam the same move fall under one of two categories: a total noob who found a big cool move; or a guy whose playing to win and knows you'll be able to counter his style and is prepared to switch things up when you start to do so.

unfortunately you found someone in the first category!

 

[FlippyD]

It considers the two exclusive in order to prove a point I believe.

Obviously the people who play to win do find learning how a game works and using that to their advantage fun. It's like the old "suit of cards" theory about the types of people who play MUDs/MMORPGs.

The point is, having someone do the same move over and over again is boring, but that's not a problem with the game unless it's an unavoidable and un-counterable move. If it is (and SCIV is a balanced game) then it's the player's fault for not learning to overcome the challenge.

To you Zeriab I'd say you could've played against other opponents obviously. Ones who would challenge you, but again that's up to you. I'd say dismissing a game because one person does the same thing over and over again is a bit hasty, but if you don't like the sauce you don't gotta eat it, y'know?

EDIT: Looks like I'm saying the same thing as Phagdes, but nicer. lol

 

[Flaepru]

Grapple. Just do it.

 

[Anski]

I still say this isn't focused on the people, you can't just tell someone to stop playing like a hardcore asshole, the game needs balance. More balance == less elite dicks.

 

[FlippyD]

I still say this isn't focused on the people, you can't just tell someone to stop playing like a hardcore asshole, the game needs balance. More balance == less elite dicks.

Actually, more balance means more people learning how to play the game while those who can't be bothered whine about it.

No, you can't tell someone to stop playing hardcore, and you shouldn't expect them too. The argument swings both ways in my opinion,

• For games like SSB where it's meant to be played chaotically, the tourney-fags bitch that the game should have more rules and balance. This causes them to invent arbitrary and imaginary rules because they're so focused on winning they don't realize the game is meant to be fun, even when dying. Getting blown away by Princess Peach and twinkling off into the distance, you need to be able to laugh at that.

• For games like SCIV where it's meant to be played very precisely scrubs bitch because they can't be bothered to learn how to play the game. This causes them to invent arbitrary rules and imaginary rules because they're so focused on winning that anything they can't understand or don't want to understand gets swept under the rug, they don't realize the game is actually well balanced and meant to be a mind game. SCIV is actually notorious for forcing players to memorize all the skills at their disposal, which is a daunting task, but for those who bother to practice and not cry like a baby because they got shafted by Nightmare it's a fun game of space, strategy and quick improvisation.

If a group of players wants to impose imaginary rules upon themselves that's fine, but they should have the maturity and understanding to know that not everyone else has to and won't. Instead of decrying the game is not fair perhaps learn the game first. There are actually very few characters in fighting games that are truly unbalanced. It's just that one person learns how to gain an advantage while his or her peers refuse to learn how to play the game.

 

[Zeriab]

@Des:
I meant as in mindset.
It's obvious that people who play to win have fun. Why else would they play? Yeah I know, there can be extreme cases where they may not have fun
If I play against the Just having fun kind and I can totally crush them I usually don't.
Playing to win can be very fun especially if you play against someone of roughly your skill. If the difference is too big then rarely if ever is the game as fun to play. You can change rules, apply restrictions or in some other kind give the good one handicaps might make the game more fun to play since it becomes a challenge for both.
I totally agree about about me playing the noob variant. The worst kind of noob imo.

@ixis:
I would never dream of dismissing SC2 due to that noob. I love it.
As for playing someone else... There were not anyone else at that time.

I have far from played SC4 enough to notice whether it's unbalanced or not. (I.e. gets shallower and shallower)
*hugs*
- Zeriab

 

[Anski]

I still say this isn't focused on the people, you can't just tell someone to stop playing like a hardcore asshole, the game needs balance. More balance == less elite dicks.

Actually, more balance means more people learning how to play the game while those who can't be bothered whine about it.

No, you can't tell someone to stop playing hardcore, and you shouldn't expect them too. The argument swings both ways in my opinion,

I'm glad you swung and missed the whole point I blatantly said in one line.

Team Fortress 2. The game is so balanced that nobody complains about "WTF WHY ARE YOU SCOUT THAT IS SO DUMB YOU'RE A FUCKING DUMBASS CHOOSE A REAL CLASS."

Balance in a game isn't about the people, it's about the game. If I make a CTF map in any game, and I have Red Team in an underground fort and a DIRECT TO FLAG shot from spawn to flag of Blue, and Blue can't use that shot, instead have to take a longer route, is that the players fault?

Now if I make a map and it is symmetrical to itself, that is balance. Everyone has to take the same route, everyone has to do the same thing, it becomes a matter of pushing.

If I make a fighting game and allow the X button to do an unblockable throw, is that the players fault?
The answer is no. It's not.

Also i'm not talking about games that are supposed to be played chaotically, that is just totally out of the ball park.

Balance makes it to where the new player isn't as handicapped as you make them come off to see. I already said that this isn't about the player changing their ways because they are being dicks, it's about the game changing itself to stop that.

Another example, the hated "Noob-Tube" of Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. The Grenade Launcher, attachable to most guns, is a very strongly and highly accurate projectile that explodes upon any impact. Using it online automatically will make you seemed less upon, people will bitch and moan about you using it. If the launcher was not in the game, I would think it would have more balance, wouldn't you? But it is in the game and therefore I think that it is even more unbalanced because of that.

But whatever you can say that everything relies on the players and the game is made how it is and I'll just think you are a dumbass, everything is solved.

Also LOL @ the use of the word scrub