Morality (Good VS Evil, Right VS Wrong)

[Velocir_X]

1. Killing a human being

2. Abortion

3. War

6. Scams stupid people fall for with fine print

7. Killing animals for food

These I can answer from a moral standpoint

1. I find killing a human being immoral,but not because of the typical reason (OMFG you just ended a life O.O), in my eyes its less about ending a life (since thats going to happen anyway), rather I'm apalled by the fact that we're deprive the human race potential for improvement, after all our race can, and (hopefully) will exist much longer than any individual, but it moves technologically forward based on the ideas of an individual, and any one individual could be the one that develops the next leap for mankind.

2. I also find it immoral, (for the same reason as #1) except in cases such as extremely rare, and devastating genetic diseases (twisted chromosones, etc.) . If the kid is only going to live until 15 and he can't communicate or walk, he's no help to mankind, and just causes heartache and pain, for both himself (realization of the worthlessness, and shortness, of his life) and his parents. IMO just kill the kid and get it over with (best before they can even comprehend well, so they don't even really live on an advanced level), your life will be much be better. Otherwise, give the kid up to adoption, most people who have an abortion spend the rest of their life wallowing in guilt.

3. War is justifiable, it just depends on what kind. War between religions is REALLY fucking stupid (I'm atheist myself). War for freedom is understandable.

6. It's moral, and its good for us too, weeds out the stupid ones.

7. Moral too (all of nature does it for gods sake, its crucial to evolution, ecosystems etc.), and better for the environment than the other option. Let's give an example. Just the other day PETA went around boycotting fur clothing and dumping paint on fur coats. I find that idiotic. Artificial fur is made in a process that utilizes all sorts of chemicals, and uses up tons resources. As for fur animals - they can be quite easily raised, they don't realize whats going on as

I personally scientists believe all animals are soulless lack consciousness

, and they can be quickly skinned and sent off to the textile industry. Environmentally friendly 'cause that's the way nature (prehistoric humans) does it!

Also morality doesn't exists as the other said, and is really only something we evolved in order to promote our race's survival

And now for my political opinion/personal philosophy regarding all the numbers

I'm a libertarian, and an atheist (shit I have never met a peer like that :pissed: )

Personally I believe, like conservatives, Communism and Big Government is stupid. Unlike conservatives, I believe so because it removes the positive force of evolution both in natural and artificial systems. Like conservatives I believe that in general government should be small, mostly local, and stick to foreign policy, law enforcement, and some small taxation. It should stay the FUCK at of people's lives whenever possible. Because of the last point, and my atheism, I have no inkling of conservative values, I'm pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun rights, fine print etc., even thought I would not do any of these things, simply because I believe that we (and definitively not the government) should not have the power to decide over other people's private lives. Live and let live y'know. I'm a libertarian, I believe in freedom.

To elaborate on this:

Personally I believe Communism and Big Government is stupid, as it removes the positive force of evolution both in natural and unnatural systems.

I simply mean healthy competition, which is impossible with government, as government makes the rules. Its like playing monopoly with a banker that can give himself any amount of money from the bank, or extra turns, at any time. You can't do it. And now to give a concrete example of how removing big government, and privatizing things help - let's take a look at Utah's public school system. They don't have one. Instead the state government gives every kid a set check that can only be used for school, and the kid can go on to select and spend the money for tuition, at any non-religious school. And BOOM! schools can now compete with each other, they mutually become better, we're disbanded from that pesky teacher's union, and many problems (such as the class size amendment) that plague public school systems, are gone.

I'm also sad about the fact that the increase in government causes a decrease in responsibility. To give an example, several states have laws mandating that bikers wear helmets. I find that stupid. After all the fact there isn't such a law doesn't mean you CAN'T wear a helmet, it means you just don't have to. It's you decision, and guess what there are CONSEQUENCES. That's way the natural world works, that's the way evolution works, and I like that just fine - I don't need a big brother looking over my shoulder "protecting me", my common sense works well enough.

I find income taxes (especially the USA's) ridiculously stupid from a purely economic point of view. They're confusing, they only tax a small fraction of people, they're unfair, and they make starting new businesses, and growing a business, a pain in the ass. Personally I'm a proponent of FairTax.

On a final note: for those of you who played Mass Effect 2, I would totally belong on Illium, except with a little less bureaucracy.

That would be about it I apologize in advance for making a political answer, but i felt that many points don't apply to morals, but to politics/personal philosophies, and that I honestly couldn't answer them from a purely moral standpoint.


EDIT:

I fell like throwing another question in the fray:
what do you guys think about drug sales/use.

Personally I would legalize as long as its properly (and easily-identifiably) labeled. I'd never do it myself, but freedom and consequences - that's the way I like it.

I'd also much rather have marijuana legalized than tobacco, especially since its less dangerous.

 

[Star]

While I do agree with 90% of Velocir_X's post and it was good. I just don't understand why people have to announce their atheism. This really isn't a religious thread, and I don't plan on expressing my faith here. One big question tho. If you do believe that animals have no souls than neither do humans right? I of course only believe humans have souls according to my faith but I won't get into that.

Yeah you guys are right this really has turned into a shitstorm but WE CAN SAVE IT!

*Answers Glitch's post*

If a sentient computer program is developed, do we have the right to limit it, edit it, or turn it off? Specifically, I mean if someone manages to create a computer program that not only thinks and reasons, but also has emotions. And before you answer, let me mention something else. To this program, what it feels would be as real to it as what we feel would be to us.

That sorta sounded like Chobits. I just watched that recently. Anyway I don't think it would be right for us to do that unless it started affecting actual mankind. Like if people starting falling in love more with the computer program than other humans our population would certainly decrease over the years, or someone would have lots of wives or lots of husbands. I think we could co-exist peacefully with humanoid beings that interact with us on a human level.

Do you think it's morally right for people to chop down trees just simply cause they are getting to close to their house and could cause damage to them or household or car?

 

[dadevvtsvre]

While I do agree with 90% of Velocir_X's post and it was good. I just don't understand why people have to announce their atheism. This really isn't a religious thread, and I don't plan on expressing my faith here. One big question tho. If you do believe that animals have no souls than neither do humans right? I of course only believe humans have souls according to my faith but I won't get into that.

I can't speak for all atheists but yes, I don't think most believe humans have souls.

 

[Velocir_X]

I just don't understand why people have to announce their atheism. This really isn't a religious thread, and I don't plan on expressing my faith here.

I wasn't trying to make the thread a shitstorm :/
It just happens to be that in my case that fact affects my outlook on life and morality.

If a sentient computer program is developed, do we have the right to limit it, edit it, or turn it off? Specifically, I mean if someone manages to create a computer program that not only thinks and reasons, but also has emotions. And before you answer, let me mention something else. To this program, what it feels would be as real to it as what we feel would be to us.

If it threatens the human race, or our freedom, in any way, KILL IT. After all, our race's survival is all that matters, and we do the same thing with other human beings anyway (wars for freedom)

 

[mawk]

If a sentient computer program is developed, do we have the right to limit it, edit it, or turn it off?

I've heard this conundrum a lot of times, but don't we already do this to other human beings? people are jailed, medicated, and executed every day. only the death penalty is a point of contention, generally speaking. as with those cases, if these actions are necessary, we have the right to perform them.

sidenote: ugh god how can anyone stand to watch chobits

Moral too (all of nature does it for gods sake, its crucial to evolution, ecosystems etc.), and better for the environment than the other option.

actually in terms of gross output vs. input, an entire cow is much less nutritious than the years of feed needed to raise it.

Artificial fur is made in a process that utilizes all sorts of chemicals, and uses up tons resources. As for fur animals - they can be quite easily raised, they don't realize whats going on as

I don't know the process in and out, but I'd say that harvesting and curing a pelt isn't a wholly chemical-free process either. it certainly isn't a large enough difference that it makes wearing fur unequivocally correct.

your overarcing assertion that things are more correct the way we used to do them fails to take into account that no one actually does it that way anymore. living in the world you do, these things are brought to you by large-scale industrial processes that have far more impact than your ideal man of the earth curing a hide with ash and brains.

could you cite your source for scientists believing all animals lack consciousness, by the way? I'm legitimately curious.

 

[Ellie]

The one thing I do have to say is that while some things may be moral/immoral for whatever reason, if something does not harm anybody else through any ways you could possibly perceive then it has to be moral.

By this I mean if in your mind dressing as a girl would not harm anybody else, and as far as you can tell nobody would be harmed from it, it is moral to do (regardless of what actually happens - i.e. an old man seeing you and gasping in shock and therefore running over three children and crashing his car into a care home).

That's basically what it boils down to for me. If in your mind nobody is being harmed but possibly yourself, it is moral; if it would hurt somebody else it is immoral. It therefore entirely depends on the person in question because say a mentally... (I was gonna say mentally ill but I will instead say mentally different) person might not be spacially aware and might not realise driving a car at 200mph will kill 72 people in the process.