Making the XP Combat System Deeper

[Conners]

I'm not much of a scripter or sprite-maker, so I plan on using the basic system of combat for my RPG (aka: The provided one) unless something better and just as convenient pops up.
Now, here's the problem: The basic system is..... basic.

Can someone please help me to deepen the combat system of RPG Maker XP? So far, I've incorporated a light/heavy armour system (the latter giving more defence and magic defence but lowering agility severely) which I will balance accordingly, and I've made the weapons and armour available to each class extensive (AKA: you aren't restricted to just axes/swords/whatever, you get a wider selection).

The next thing I am planning: More strategic skills (for both characters and enemies)... but I'm not sure which direction to go with this. Can someone with experience with the system please give me some insight on what kind of skills should be added? My Monster character uses general damaging skills, with Berserk as an extra... but that's about all I've done with skills so far.

Thanks to whoever can help me with this.

 

[Makasu]

If the basic system is to basic why not just get a different battle system? Like an RTAB or something? There are plenty of scripts that are just plug and play that pretty much run off of the functions of the default one.

 

[xgamexfreakx]

If the basic system is to basic why not just get a different battle system? Like an RTAB or something? There are plenty of scripts that are just plug and play that pretty much run off of the functions of the default one.

[quote autor=Connors]I'm not much of a [...]sprite-maker[...].[/quote]. This is what keeps people like him and I from using those kind of battle systems. It's true that they do plug and play, but if you can't make sprites, your stuck with the default ones that come with the system which usually don't match your game.

Personally, if your looking for a good person to talk to about modifying the default battle system, look into contacting ehaper256. HE has done a really good job of taking the battle system and modifying it to be a lot more fun.

Hope this helps!
~xgamexfreakx

 

[Conners]

That's exactly right... I can't make sprites, and there is generally either a lack of of the needed sprites already made on the internet, or they are too well hidden to acquire. I can't see why I'd want to do much besides a side-view RPG even with the option of sprites, however--after all, this is my first RPG and another system isn't particularly necessary for the type of game I'm doing (incidentally, I'd actually like to swap between the basic system and a tactics system, depending on the type of battle... can I do that? Even if I can, there might still not be enough sprites for it).

OK... so I should try to contact "ehaper256"? Or perhaps he has already started a thread helping people with this issue? I'll search the forums for supposed thread before trying to contact him, I guess. Thanks xgamexfreakx :D!

EDIT: OK..... I tried searching for his posts, then for his user name, and then on google.... I can't find anything to do with him on these forums nor google. Is it spelt "ehaper256" exactly? Does he not come to these forums (if so, where can I contact him?)? What should I do to meet/talk-to ehaper256 O_o?

 

[Makasu]

@game: Not necessarily. You don't absolutely NEED to have sprites. Some run off of pictures!

Either or it was just a suggestion. I mean enhancing the default BS would seem kind of like a waste to me when there are slightly more modified versions that do what you're looking for. I'm more than certain Volrath used a modified default BS and his ran off of battlers. If lack or resources are what turn you off of said systems why not try your hand at requesting them? I'll go away now though as this isn't necessarily helping you in your issue.

 

[Injury]

You don't have to be much of a scripter with everyone else out there. Try to look in the Script Analysis sub-forum for more scripts for your game! There are menus, battle systems, maps, and more. You just need to look a bit harder! You just copy the script, credit the coder, and paste it above the Main script in your Script Editor in RMXP.

 

[xgamexfreakx]

ehaper's profile is located here. See if you can't get him to show you his battle system for version .8 of the game that he is making. Yes, he did make his own sprites and such, but with what he has done with his battle system is really cool. They are all basic mods and such so nothing to big and all done with free scripts. I'll let him know that you may be contacting him. (i'm one of his alpha testers so I know of all these things :tongue: )

 

[Unka Josh]

You can do some interesting things with just a few minor things, too-- my current project (It'll get finished some day, honest...) uses a system where I
a) Gave all attacks elements,
b) Eliminated the generic Attack option, and thus
c) Made all attacks cost SP,
d) Fully restored SP after every fight, and
e) Made SP recover partially with the Defend command, which I renamed "Rest."

It's different.

 

[xgamexfreakx]

hmmm. that's kinda cool. I like the way you set up your system. It's kinda like a stamina system (actually I think that is exactly what it is..).  This would definitely be something that you would want to play with. You dont' want to make things exactly like someone else, but if you do use their idea's, you want to change them. Usually more change is better. You just have to play with everything and see what you like and don't like.

 

[Zander]

I would use Gubids system it is like fire emblem or maybe shinning force. and it is very user friendly compared to most script related battle systems
- but - if you are set on useing the original battle type then perhaps adding a summoner class would spice it up? Then have a monster picture pop up below the summoner. the scripters could do that I'm sure. The only slight problem would be adding the monster into the rotation of attacking.
I like the idea though :thumb:.

 

[xgamexfreakx]

Gubids System is really cool, but it still requires all of the animations and such for attacks if you want it to look nice. If I remember right, it doesn't need them, but it makes the game a whole lot less attractive with out them. I'll bet you could get someone like Xepher to make a summoning system through events. You may want to post in his topic if that interests you.

Also, I was reading through the posts again, and I did spell his name wrong. it's eharper256 nor ehaper256. I was typing a little too fast.. :dead:

 

[Zander]

I don't know if this is getting a little off track but... lol - How would you add the extra animations to Gubids battle type? because I mean you would have to have a bigger sprite sheet right? and then RMXP wouldn't reconize it? right? OR do you have to change it in the script? (srry off the wall question XD)

 

[xgamexfreakx]

actually, the GTBS is set up to recognize the larger pictures. It's just like an ABS, of the XAS. I don't know exactly how it works, but there is some special code that allows the program to do it. It is actually really handy to have/know.

Hope this helps!
~xgamexfreakx

 

[Zander]

Man, that is awsome! It's like you don't have to work to make a RPG anymore lol XD

 

[Conners]

@game: Not necessarily. You don't absolutely NEED to have sprites. Some run off of pictures!

Either or it was just a suggestion. I mean enhancing the default BS would seem kind of like a waste to me when there are slightly more modified versions that do what you're looking for. I'm more than certain Volrath used a modified default BS and his ran off of battlers. If lack or resources are what turn you off of said systems why not try your hand at requesting them? I'll go away now though as this isn't necessarily helping you in your issue.

If I could find an improved battle system which doesn't need new sprites, I'd consider it--but overall a sweetened vanilla RPG system would suit my style of RPG OK (again, this is my first one, so it's better to start with the basics).

Could you post me some links please? I'd like to look at these systems and work out how they suit my RPG.

You don't have to be much of a scripter with everyone else out there. Try to look in the Script Analysis sub-forum for more scripts for your game! There are menus, battle systems, maps, and more. You just need to look a bit harder! You just copy the script, credit the coder, and paste it above the Main script in your Script Editor in RMXP.

I have found some neat battle systems, but they weren't finished last time I checked... better look them up again sometime, though.
I know it isn't hard to get help with scripting....but sprites are generally harder to get in requests, aren't they?

ehaper's profile is located here. See if you can't get him to show you his battle system for version .8 of the game that he is making.
Yes, he did make his own sprites and such, but with what he has done with his battle system is really cool. They are all basic mods and such so nothing to big and all done with free scripts. I'll let him know that you may be contacting him. (i'm one of his alpha testers so I know of all these things :tongue: )

Thanks :D! I guess I'll talk to him when I've finished writing an appropriate message--but how willing is he to "give away" a copy of his battle script if it's for an RPG he's doing... O_o (I don't want to steal his ideas or anything)?
The sprites thing isn't a problem as long as the sprites I have are compatible to the system. I'll have to find that out myself when I speak to him :p.
OK, thanks again.

You can do some interesting things with just a few minor things, too-- my current project (It'll get finished some day, honest...) uses a system where I
a) Gave all attacks elements,
b) Eliminated the generic Attack option, and thus
c) Made all attacks cost SP,
d) Fully restored SP after every fight, and
e) Made SP recover partially with the Defend command, which I renamed "Rest."

It's different.

Wow.... that is a good idea for a combat system. I'm guessing you're giving the sword attack the "Sword" element and whatnot (then giving the skeleton the Sword Resistance A, or something like that)?
This is certainly a good idea for a system.... hmmm... I'd use it depending on several things:
1) Would it offend yiou if I used your system? I'd give credit.
2) Will this require scripting competence?
3) Is it a good idea for me to do this for my first RPG?

Those are the main things. If you're willing to let me test out a demo of your game and see how the system works, I'd greatly appreciate it. Even if I don't use your system, I'd like to borrow some ideas (like all attacks having elements) if that's OK with you.

hmmm. that's kinda cool. I like the way you set up your system. It's kinda like a stamina system (actually I think that is exactly what it is..).  This would definitely be something that you would want to play with. You dont' want to make things exactly like someone else, but if you do use their idea's, you want to change them. Usually more change is better. You just have to play with everything and see what you like and don't like.

Already I consider giving all attacks elements and making Defend give you SP (is there ever any point in using Defend otherwise?). I better not tweak around with my current system until I work out whether to use Vanilla or a different combat system.

I would use Gubids system it is like fire emblem or maybe shinning force. and it is very user friendly compared to most script related battle systems
- but - if you are set on useing the original battle type then perhaps adding a summoner class would spice it up? Then have a monster picture pop up below the summoner. the scripters could do that I'm sure. The only slight problem would be adding the monster into the rotation of attacking.
I like the idea though :thumb:.

Hmmm... I like tactical battle systems, but there aren't too many points in my story where they'd come to be useful. It's generally specific times, like in a war, that I'd use this system.
Summoner class might be interesting, but it may also complicate matters or detract from the fighting... I'll keep the suggestion in mind and look into scripts, still. Thanks!

Gubids System is really cool, but it still requires all of the animations and such for attacks if you want it to look nice. If I remember right, it doesn't need them, but it makes the game a whole lot less attractive with out them. I'll bet you could get someone like Xepher to make a summoning system through events. You may want to post in his topic if that interests you.

Also, I was reading through the posts again, and I did spell his name wrong. it's eharper256 nor ehaper256. I was typing a little too fast.. :dead:

I was afraid that might be a requirement... on the bright side, if I get all the animations and stuff required for such a system, I can use them in cur-scenes for more effect :D!
Summoning wouldn't fit too well in my game's story--it's mostly based on whether or not it adds to the game that I'd consider adding it in (if it doubles the fun, I'll change the story to suit it).

Ah, OK.


I'd like to say, "Thanks you guys!!" to all of you, for spending some time to give me advice and for showing interest in my trouble with the combat system. Thanks :D!

 

[Unka Josh]

You can do some interesting things with just a few minor things, too-- my current project (It'll get finished some day, honest...) uses a system where I
a) Gave all attacks elements,
b) Eliminated the generic Attack option, and thus
c) Made all attacks cost SP,
d) Fully restored SP after every fight, and
e) Made SP recover partially with the Defend command, which I renamed "Rest."

It's different.

Wow.... that is a good idea for a combat system. I'm guessing you're giving the sword attack the "Sword" element and whatnot (then giving the skeleton the Sword Resistance A, or something like that)?
This is certainly a good idea for a system.... hmmm... I'd use it depending on several things:
1) Would it offend yiou if I used your system? I'd give credit.
2) Will this require scripting competence?
3) Is it a good idea for me to do this for my first RPG?

Those are the main things. If you're willing to let me test out a demo of your game and see how the system works, I'd greatly appreciate it. Even if I don't use your system, I'd like to borrow some ideas (like all attacks having elements) if that's OK with you.

Actually, the elements that I used, aside from "Fire" and "Ice" and whatnot, were "Slash" and "Pierce" and "Crush."  That made it easy for me to work out how they'd work on a given enemy-- Skeleton?  Forget "Pierce," go with "Crush."  Blob?  Forget "Crush."

Would I be offended if you used it?  I'm deeply flattered, actually. 

It doesn't require that much scripting-- I lack talent as a scripter, and I managed it.

Here's the script that I inserted above Main to make Defend restore SP:

Spoiler

#==============================================================================
# ** Scene_Battle
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#  This class performs battle screen processing.
#==============================================================================

class Scene_Battle
  #--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  # * Constant Variables
  #--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  SP_GAIN_PERCENT = 0.4 # 40%
  #--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  # * Make Basic Action Results !OVERRIDE!
  #--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  def make_basic_action_result
    # If attack
    if @active_battler.current_action.basic == 0
      # Set anaimation ID
      @animation1_id = @active_battler.animation1_id
      @animation2_id = @active_battler.animation2_id
      # If action battler is enemy
      if @active_battler.is_a?(Game_Enemy)
        if @active_battler.restriction == 3
          target = $game_troop.random_target_enemy
        elsif @active_battler.restriction == 2
          target = $game_party.random_target_actor
        else
          index = @active_battler.current_action.target_index
          target = $game_party.smooth_target_actor(index)
        end
      end
      # If action battler is actor
      if @active_battler.is_a?(Game_Actor)
        if @active_battler.restriction == 3
          target = $game_party.random_target_actor
        elsif @active_battler.restriction == 2
          target = $game_troop.random_target_enemy
        else
          index = @active_battler.current_action.target_index
          target = $game_troop.smooth_target_enemy(index)
        end
      end
      # Set array of targeted battlers
      @target_battlers = [target]
      # Apply normal attack results
      for target in @target_battlers
        target.attack_effect(@active_battler)
      end
      return
    end
    # If guard
    if @active_battler.current_action.basic == 1
      # Display "Guard" in help window
      @help_window.set_text($data_system.words.guard, 1)
      # Increase the battler's sp.
      @active_battler.sp += (@active_battler.maxsp * 0.4).to_i
      return
    end
    # If escape
    if @active_battler.is_a?(Game_Enemy) and
      @active_battler.current_action.basic == 2
      # Display "Escape" in help window
      @help_window.set_text("Escape", 1)
      # Escape
      @active_battler.escape
      return
    end
    # If doing nothing
    if @active_battler.current_action.basic == 3
      # Clear battler being forced into action
      $game_temp.forcing_battler = nil
      # Shift to step 1
      @phase4_step = 1
      return
    end
  end
end

In all honesty, I didn't write that.  I asked for help here, and KHMP came through with that bit of coding.

Giving all attacks elements is, of course, trivial, although since I wanted the same thing to be true for monsters, I had to invent special attacks for "Claw" and "Bite" and whatever. 

To remove the "Attack" command requires very, very basic scripting-- you go to Scene_Battle 1, around line 25 where the comment is "Make actor command window," and remove "Attack" as an option.  I did this on my own, with a lot of fumbling, but you can get a concise explanation of how it's done in this thread here:  http://www.rmxp.org/forums/index.php?topic=8276.0

Now, bear in mind that skills work differently than attacks, so you will need to heavily playtest all your fights to make sure that they're working properly. 

You ought to do that anyway, though.  I think it's worth trying, if you like the idea, but that's just me.

 

[Zander]

I am very suprised at how much thought you seem to be putting into your game. Most peoples first game consists of a room or to with exact same equipment and combat system.

I am impressed  :crazy:

 

[xgamexfreakx]

I am very suprised at how much thought you seem to be putting into your game. Most peoples first game consists of a room or to with exact same equipment and combat system.

I am impressed  :crazy:

lol...I know what you mean. I'm trying to avoid that. I've been here helping out and learning for the past year before even attempting to make my own game (which I am just now officially starting  :grin: ). You should see all the notes and such I have for the planning. I have 3.5 pages on just different battle algorithms that I can use just because I don't care for the default one. I like these people here who actually put time and effort into their first game so that it doesn't end up just being a game that says, "hi! this is my first game." then you fight an UbEr-boss enemy and the games over.

 

[Conners]

@Unka Josh: Hmmm.... after much consideration, I think I will swap to your system of battle. At first I was edgy to try something this new for my first RPG, but now I've realized this will be perfect for increasing the element of strategy in the game (and it'll allow players to use fancy moves in normal battles instead of saving SP for the boss! I've always hated that about RPGs...). Still, there are a few things I'd like help with before I change over...:
1) What skills are necessary for this style of combat?
2) Do SP costs need to be changed? And do the character's max SPs need to be raised/lowered?
3) I'm guessing monsters would follow the same rules--needing to guard once they run out of SP?
4) Is there anything else I've missed that I should ask aobut? If so, please insert that question here and give me the answer to it :P.

Thanks very much! As soon as I can finally get onto the computer with RPG maker, I'll start work on converting the system.


@Zander: Well, an RPG is made up of two parts: Story, and Gameplay. Gameplay can be made up of many things, but in the more basic types is generally 40%-to-90% Combat, and 60%-to-10% Story-related-gameplay (like alternate endings). I'm basically a writer (people have told me I have a real talent for it), so story is no trouble to me as such--thus I can focus my mind on gameplay whilst my instincts and experience are enough to do the writing.
...Of course, in my VEEERY first RPG, I couldn't even work out how to make layers work... so yeah x_x.


@xgamexfreakx: For me, I learn better by experience--aka: Making an RPG and learning as I go. My skills have improved vastly by this stage :D.
I'm also writing a document for notes on my RPG, but I doubt it'll be half as detailed or useful as yours is (documenting stuff is not my strong point :p).
......Let's hope our RPGs do NOT dissolve into that -_-". There are elements I'm still deciding on like, "Should I give the player multiple romances?" and, "Should there be a secret Uber Boss with a special ending?" but I'm sure what it ends up with will be much more fulfilling than, "OMG! th3 bozz! dai nub!" xP.

 

[Unka Josh]

Hmmm.... after much consideration, I think I will swap to your system of battle. At first I was edgy to try something this new for my first RPG, but now I've realized this will be perfect for increasing the element of strategy in the game (and it'll allow players to use fancy moves in normal battles instead of saving SP for the boss! I've always hated that about RPGs...). Still, there are a few things I'd like help with before I change over...:
1) What skills are necessary for this style of combat?
2) Do SP costs need to be changed? And do the character's max SPs need to be raised/lowered?
3) I'm guessing monsters would follow the same rules--needing to guard once they run out of SP?
4) Is there anything else I've missed that I should ask aobut? If so, please insert that question here and give me the answer to it :P.

1)  You'll need a variety of skills to represent various combat techniques-- I combine this with the different elements and the various new states that I come up with.  You'll want to give most characters a cheap, light attack, and some heavier, more expensive attacks.  I often mix it up-- in The Current Project That I Really Need To Go On And Finish, the protagonist, a knife-fighter, has slashing attacks (that use the Slash element), a stabbing attack (using the Pierce element), a stunning kick attack (Crush element), plus assorted special attacks and party boosters.

2)  You will want to really fine-tune SP costs and levels for this kind of project.  In my current work, I use teeny-tiny SP levels, with the main character starting with about 40 SP, and her attacks costing 5 to 20 SP. 

However, that's entirely personal taste-- you could use larger numbers on both ends, and you'll get roughly the same results.

3)  What's the fun if monsters don't use the same rules?  Where this can get tricky is that you can't set enemy action conditions to take their current SP into account in XP without a script.  I haven't gotten around to installing a script like that, so instead I script enemy actions closely, where they rest every few turns.  I kinda like doing things like that anyway-- I give the enemies a large number of skills, and have them follow certain patterns of action that players can learn to exploit.

4)  Try to really mix up the kinds of fights and the vulnerabilities of enemies to make it interesting.

Playtest, playtest, playtest-- this system really needs it.