Let's talk about Black Metal

[Sirc]

Mayhem and other Black Metal bands certainly didn't use satanic themes metaphorically, a lot of bands are really devoted to it. I really agree with Varg's ideology that Satanism is just conjured by the imaginations of Christians and thus a denomination of it, and equally ridicolous.

But yeah, Nihilism is something entirely different and complex. I read a lot of articles at http://www.anus.com (not porn, don't worry) and it's pretty intriguing.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

I know, I 'm part of the forums at that site as well.
Pretty interesting site.

 

[Cruelty]

Black metal bores me. except back when theatres des vampires made black metal.. but then again, they weren't a-melodic bullshit like every other black metal band i've heard.

.. and i guess marduk's 'panzer division marduk' was kinda cool.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Cruelty. we were talking about the true black metal actually

 

[Cruelty]

so am i.
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=5044
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=386

sorry if its not tr00 kvlt enough. :}

 

[Raziel]

Actually Marduk is one of my favorite bands.
And about black metal bands being too melodic. Listen to Nargaroth - Black Metal ist Krieg.
http://video.google.de/videoplay?do...39&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Sorry, didn't find another link. Just listen to the song.

 

[Cruelty]

that song was pretty dope actually :}
never heard them prior to that

gotta give props to them drummers for being able to play that damn fast

 

[Marcus]

I can't stand black metal because there's so little variation in it. I've honestly only heard a few bands and a handful of songs, but if POUNDING ON THE DRUMS REALLY FAST WITH NO RHYTHM OR SKILL and WAILING AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS ABOUT HATING HUMANITY AND MAKING FUN OF PEOPLE'S FAITH AND BELIEFS is the staple of black metal then leave me out.

I'm more of a fan of Alternative and Progressive metal. Give me some Tool or Dream Theater over Mayhem or Corpsepaint any day.

 

[Freyr]

I can't stand black metal because there's so little variation in it. I've honestly only heard a few bands and a handful of songs, but if POUNDING ON THE DRUMS REALLY FAST WITH NO RHYTHM OR SKILL and WAILING AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS ABOUT HATING HUMANITY AND MAKING FUN OF PEOPLE'S FAITH AND BELIEFS is the staple of black metal then leave me out.

This clearly proves you know a lot about black metal. Congratulations.

 

[Vanguard]

I can't stand black metal because there's so little variation in it. I've honestly only heard a few bands and a handful of songs, but if POUNDING ON THE DRUMS REALLY FAST WITH NO RHYTHM OR SKILL and WAILING AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS ABOUT HATING HUMANITY AND MAKING FUN OF PEOPLE'S FAITH AND BELIEFS is the staple of black metal then leave me out.

I'm more of a fan of Alternative and Progressive metal. Give me some Tool or Dream Theater over Mayhem or Corpsepaint any day.

I feel the same way. The Drums do have rhythm, and are sometimes fast as hell, but it's sooooo boring to play. Theres no variation of rhythm at all in black metal. When was the last time you heard a black metal song in 7/8, or 15/16? Never. Tremello picking gets old on the guitar after a while too. Sometimes it can be innovative and new, but theres not many bands in the genre that ever do ANYTHING innovative and new.

I'm a drummer, and I've played black metal before. It's not something I would do for over a month. Same goes for basic Death metal, it's BORING to play. I can go about as fast with my feet as any Black metal drummer that does not use triggers, and I can say that It honestly doesn't take many years of experience to learn.

That being said, Tech-Metal, Math metal, and Jazz Fusion metal are amazing. There's so much variation in these genres, and they're usually never generic. With the possibilities, its hard to get bored when playing it. I love playing jazz, and getting the chance to go into something very fast or metal right after it.

It's always about opinions though, tech metal isn't for everyone. Some people just can't comprehend it, and others just like the "image" aspect of metal bands. In that case, I'd stick with the basic black metal/death metal.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Weird thing the best drummer of Norway is Helhammer, he even played in a metal/jazz/classical fusion band.
No variation in Black Metal? if you've been playing for one month I don't think you got all the complexity of Black Metal.
I invite you to listen some Enslaved and their album Vikingligr Veldi
Also Arcturus - Aspera Hiems Symphonia.

Really, saying that Black Metal and Death metal are basic? lol
tech metal, you meant bands like Dream Theater probably? lol

I've been playing guitar for 20 years, and most of what I play is classical and metal. To be honest I don't see the simplicity in composing Black Metal. Would you care listening Dissection - Dissection - Thorns Of Crimson Death. The drum play is great, and the guitars are extremely well done.

*** Cruelty, I never say not TrOO like you call it, I said True, since from around 1989 to 1996 was a period of the true black metal, the origins. Bands like Mayhem, Burzum, Dark Throne, Hades, Emperor, Immortal, Urgehal, Enslaved, Beherit, Behemoth, etc.
And Marcus, good Black Metal bands don't sing about hating the world, they sing about Anti-Christianity, specially Nihilism, nature,
the ancient past and the lost culture, it is mostly a desire to revive the valors of the ancient culture. Black Metal was a war cry against modernity and its mediocrity.

if you want a band that creates music with layered moods try Summoning, they've been around since '93, their lyrics turn around the world of Tolkien's Middle Earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBfkDH3F1GA&mode=related&search=

Listen that band.


And Raziel, Marduk is a very good band, although I prefer what they did in the past than their newer stuff.

 

[Raziel]

Haha, Marcus. You actually make me laugh. There isn't only rough and raw black metal. An example would be Dissection with "Where dead angels lie." http://youtube.com/watch?v=4LGq3KKNbJ0

Really melodic black metal song. Just listen to it and say that again. :p

 

[Sirc]

People who are going to say it's just patternless guitar and effortless loud screaming are just oblivious to the complexity of the genre. No, I don't like Black Metal for it's image, in fact, I don't like the recent image. The black-dyed hair and corsepaint doesn't do it for me, and I prefer more natural less materialistic bands. I also prefer bands that can write something meaningful, Mayhem doesn't do a great job at this but I can still listen to their stuff, and no one will top Burzum in this regard. The second aspect of this genre that I love, and the sole reason I listen to it, is the mood it puts me in. I listen to these forms of metal because they take me somewhere, like Moonsorrow and Falkenbach's themes of Heathenpride, and Immortal and Wintersun's themes of death, coldness and darkness. It has to mean something before I can listen to it. Occasionally I listen to Dark Funeral, Darkthrone, Cryptopsy, etc. Music that represents rage and can awaken that natural animal instinct.

Also they rarely make fun of people's beliefs. The anti-Christian themes stem from embracing their (and yours, possibly) ancient heritage and roots. Christianity used terrorist tactics when they arrived in Europe and many times thereafter. It's a declaration of war against this institution. But let's steer clear of a religious debate here.

Now that stereotype you went on about is just entirely false. Some of the newer bands do fail because they try to hard to be like the classics. But in the end, the best guitarists and drummers in the world are in Metal bands. The vocals are distinct, especially with Black Metal and Death Metal, not everyone perform growls or wails for an extended amount of time, and very few can perform them well.

 

[Vanguard]

Weird thing the best drummer of Norway is Helhammer, he even played in a metal/jazz/classical fusion band.
No variation in Black Metal? if you've been playing for one month I don't think you got all the complexity of Black Metal.
I invite you to listen some Enslaved and their album Vikingligr Veldi
Also Arcturus - Aspera Hiems Symphonia.

Really, saying that Black Metal and Death metal are basic? lol
tech metal, you meant bands like Dream Theater probably? lol

I've been playing guitar for 20 years, and most of what I play is classical and metal. To be honest I don't see the simplicity in composing Black Metal. Would you care listening Dissection - Dissection - Thorns Of Crimson Death. The drum play is great, and the guitars are extremely well done.

When I say "basic death/black metal", I don't mean that all the bands in the genre are basic. I'm referring to the basic ones. For example, I'd classify alot of cannibal corpse's music as basic death metal (though there are exceptions).

There are always exceptions for every genre. What I mean is that in general, most black metal bands cannot hold my attention. I play guitar too, and I know alot about musical theory. I respect speed and ability, but the other half of interest comes with creativity/innovation. Dragonforce, for example, can choke on a D. They're fast (even without the "tricks" that make them sound faster), but aside from Herman Lee's guitar solos, the songs have little to no creativity or artistic vision- they all sound the same!

As for what I mean about Tech Metal. I don't know about classifying DT into that genre (comparing them to other bands in the genre). Some bands to list would be Cynic, Tesseract, Between the Buried and Me, Special Defects, Atheist, Martyr, Necrophagist (alot of neoclassical influence, I'm sure you've probably heard them, but if not, I'm sure you'd like them), Behold... The arctopus (very creative, avante guard- not really for everyone).

I've played in all kinds of metal bands, and I've got to say that doing straight 32nd or 16th notes on double bass, going either 6/8 or 4/4 is boring. Some bands might do innovative stuff, but generally it doesn't happen too much.

The only black metal band I really listen to is Behemoth.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Behemoth? The new Behemoth? of the old releases? if you liked the old releases, there wasn't much difference with Dark Throne.
Saying you like only Behemoth shows how little you know about the style.

Most Black Metal bands didn't play fast all the time (Burzum, anyone?), What about Emperor?, Immortal? or Dissection?
or even Enslaved (the old albums), I don't see where's the lack of creativity, to be honest, unless you've been listening the most easy to get albums or songs, or either you didn't take the time to listen to it.
Oh, what about Summoning, don't tell me that Black Metal band plays fast, I think they must be the slower Black metal band lol, but they are magnificent.

I'm presently listening 'I am the Black Wizards' composed by Emperor and released in the album 'In The Nightside Eclipse' in 1994. ok, Well, I don't see at all the fast 32nd notes, I mean...
All I see is many changes of speed, reminds me a lot to Classical Music, now if you know as some musical theory as you said before you should maybe find the common points, specially when
around 1:52 the music stops brutally, then a middle paced section follows. The ambiance is simply majestic due to the guitar play and the synths (really, far from what Dimmu Borgir are trying to make nowadays lol).
I invite you to listen to this song, I'm sure you'll be able to take a listen to it somewhere. Make comparisons with Classical music, since you know music theory of course.

I believe Black Metal bands during a short period of time brought innovation. The music became more majestic and ambient and to be honest, I believe most rock fans were turned off by this lol

Oh, right now listening Graveland - Creator and Destroyer, what a song, it's incredible how epic it is.

 

[Vanguard]

Behemoth? The new Behemoth? of the old releases? if you liked the old releases, there wasn't much difference with Dark Throne.
Saying you like only Behemoth shows how little you know about the style.

Most Black Metal bands didn't play fast all the time (Burzum, anyone?), What about Emperor?, Immortal? or Dissection?
or even Enslaved (the old albums), I don't see where's the lack of creativity, to be honest, unless you've been listening the most easy to get albums or songs, or either you didn't take the time to listen to it.
Oh, what about Summoning, don't tell me that Black Metal band plays fast, I think they must be the slower Black metal band lol, but they are magnificent.

I'm presently listening 'I am the Black Wizards' composed by Emperor and released in the album 'In The Nightside Eclipse' in 1994. ok, Well, I don't see at all the fast 32nd notes, I mean...
All I see is many changes of speed, reminds me a lot to Classical Music, now if you know as some musical theory as you said before you should maybe find the common points, specially when
around 1:52 the music stops brutally, then a middle paced section follows. The ambiance is simply majestic due to the guitar play and the synths (really, far from what Dimmu Borgir are trying to make nowadays lol).
I invite you to listen to this song, I'm sure you'll be able to take a listen to it somewhere. Make comparisons with Classical music, since you know music theory of course.

I believe Black Metal bands during a short period of time brought innovation. The music became more majestic and ambient and to be honest, I believe most rock fans were turned off by this lol

Oh, right now listening Graveland - Creator and Destroyer, what a song, it's incredible how epic it is.

Most of the variations I'm talking about when creativity comes to mind are rhythmic. Most bands of all types of metal are guilty of this- they'll stick to the same rhythms, therefore losing any "feeling" that something more unique would bring. Just dropping an 8th note, or a 16th note would be alright at least. What I meant by "Straight 32 notes" is that there are no complex rhythm changes during a short period, such as slipping some triplets in there. The same goes for a straight line of quarter notes, 8th notes, and 16th notes.

What you gotta remember is that I'm speaking generally. I'm not saying that all the bands in the genre apply, but a lot do.

Another thing that gets me is the cliche of tremelo picking in a lot of black metal music. It's boring to listen to a straight line of notes (rhythmic), even if it is a beautiful melody. In half the cases, its just a washed up, overused melody, though not all the time..

The thing is, that I do know alot about black metal, on a musical level. I can't tell you its history, its current trend, or the names of the musicians. What I can tell you is that I've heard A LOT of black metal in my life. I can listen to it, but it just gets so boring to me- just like most melodic death metal.

I like some of the atmospheric aspects of black metal, but I think other genres have done it better, imo. Check these songs out off of Between the Buried and Me's unreleased album. These guys have so many different styles of playing, from death metal, to jazz, to black metal, to hardcore. This album even features alot of adult contemporary, one part even ranging to some insane bluegrass soloing.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=235771220



I do like emperor though, I forgot to mention that before.

 

[Sheol]

lol... if you think that black metal is bored... I'm sure you haven't listened Bal-Sagoth or some mixed genres like Blackened Thrash or Viking -_-

 

[Vanguard]

"Bored"?

I think alot of it is too boring for my tastes, not all black metal.

Bal Sagoth is boring in my opinion. It has it's moments, but the overall package isn't what I'm looking for in music. Not to mention, the album concept on Chthonic Chronicles is cheesy as hell. The voice, the story, etc- As cheesy as the corpse paint that modern black metal bands try to sport. When will people stop these stupid trends?..

Viking Metal, Thrash... hell, even Pirate Metal. I've heard most types of metal, I used to love it all. I don't know why anyone is trying to imply that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to metal. Just because I can point out it's flaws doesn't mean I don't know anything about it.

 

[Sirc]

Ugh, Pirate metal. That's arguably not even a genre. Lyrics can't define a genre. Amon Amarth is Death Metal even though they sing about Vikings and decapitation. Viking Metal has it's own sound, so it can be defined as such.

 

[Vanguard]

Ugh, Pirate metal. That's arguably not even a genre. Lyrics can't define a genre. Amon Amarth is Death Metal even though they sing about Vikings and decapitation. Viking Metal has it's own sound, so it can be defined as such.

The reason it's not a genre is because to my knowledge, this is the only "pirate metal" band I've ever found. Though, it does have a distinct "pirate" sound in the melodies of the keyboard. Listen closer.