Let's talk about Black Metal

[Fallofthetyrant]

Yeah, you heard me.
Post your opinions, bands that influenced you, songs, artists, etc.

*I see this is such a popular post lol

 

[Anonymous]

i'll bite.

i have been listening to Aaskereia (they are mad cool they have FOUR TO THE FLOOR and then blastbeats and the singer sounds like he is crying and bleeding from the stomach) a bit this week and upon comparing it to other random black metal i have heard in my life (don't ask me to name bands i don't know bands) i want to ask: what is up with it. they all seem to have the general BLASTBEATS WITH ATONAL CHORDS AND TREMELO PICKING instrumentation with almost no low end whatsoever. listening to Ulver's Vargnatt was literally PAINFUL. i mean i am all for atonal chords and weird shit going on (i listen to merzbow) but fqefqefwads. i guess what i am asking is why does black metal seem to have this severe hatred of bass?

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Because it is the antithesis of Death Metal, and secondly in my opinion it gives an old feeling.

 

[rexxzecutioner]

It is not the antithesis of death metal. How in any way is it the direct opposite? It's a progression from death metal, the two are very closely related.

 

[holloway]

Metal = Fast guitar and Bass?!?!?


No I always thought Metal was mainly bass.

 

[rexxzecutioner]

I would not say mainly. It is largely a guitar oriented genre. The bass provides foundation for the most part. There are relatively few metal bands that use walking bass techniques, but there seems to be more and more coming out where the bass player is stepping out to play counterpoint.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Lol @ progression from Death Metal, that shows how much teenagers know about black metal.
Actually Black Metal and Death metal started at the same time, except they came from different roots.
One of the first black metal bands was Bathory who adopted a 'low fi' type of recording to suits his vocals and the mood of the music.
Later Bathory adopted a more 'viking' oriented approach to their music incorporating a more ambient type of sounding.

Black is the anti-thesis of Death because of the ideology behind it. of course, if you haven't heard the old bands you could not possible know this.
Now, what you said about metal shows up how much you don't know about.
many bands weren't really 'bass' oriented lol, that's basically just the new 'trendy' sound. Call it deathcore or blackcore lol

Black metal bands starting with Darkthrone on "Ablaze in the Northern Sky" began to use a fuzzed-out, lo-fi sound and primal song structures similar to those of Hellhammer, early Bathory, and Venom, in order to get a 'purer' sound that would be less infected by death metal. Although don't forget both styles DID sound almost the same at the very beginning (1984-1987).

Black metal didn't use the bass as foundation for the music, ether drums, which allowed a more epic sounding, that's the big difference with rock music.

 

[rexxzecutioner]

Right, because Darkthrone wasn't a death metal band on Soulside Journey and before. And Quorthon played death/thrash long before his stuff was considered viking metal.


Black metal is NOT an anti-thesis of death metal as that implies direct opposition to death metal. They share so much in common, in fact. The main differences are purely aesthetical.

and if your dumbass comment about bands being bass oriented was directed towards me, please show me where the hell I even claimed that.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

The so called Death/Trash was in fact the first wave of Black Metal.
Secondly, black metal and death don't share a lot, if you are basing your statement in newer bands then you are wrong.
And at the beginning Black metal was opposed to Death Metal.
I doubt you knew the response that Black metal had around the 87-90 among the Death Metal scene? first word that comes to mind is 'fags' lol
So basically bands like Darkthrone tried to step out Death Metal by introducing new elements that made Black metal more melodic and narrative.

 

[rexxzecutioner]

The so called Death/Trash was in fact the first wave of Black Metal.

I am fully aware of what the first wave of black metal is. And no, what Quorthon was making back then was not the first. He was basically a more raw version of Venom, which I know coined the term black metal but did not share any of the common aesthetics associated with black metal. Bathory did not start to refine his style until "Under the Sign of the Black Mark".

Secondly, black metal and death don't share a lot, if you are basing your statement in newer bands then you are wrong.

I was not basing my statement off of any contemporary bands, and even if I would my statement would still be true. If you honestly believe that "deathcore" is the only form of modern death metal, you are way off. The fact is that black metal and death metal are pretty much two sides of the same coin. While black metal is a bit more spiritual, the two have so much in common it is incredibly ridiculous to consider one to be the 'anti-thesis' of the other.

And at the beginning Black metal was opposed to Death Metal.
I doubt you knew the response that Black metal had around the 87-90 among the Death Metal scene? first word that comes to mind is 'fags' lol
So basically bands like Darkthrone tried to step out Death Metal by introducing new elements that made Black metal more melodic and narrative.

At the beginning yes the bands wanted to stray from the thrashy death metal sound, but that did not change their ideologies. Also, don't assume what you think I do and do not know, it's rather annoying. Darkthrone didn't think death metal was faggish and neither did any of the other old bands from that era, they simply wanted a change.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Actually it was the Swedish death metal scene that though Black metal was fag.
The second generation of black metal shared the same melody driven song structures as Swedish death metal at that time.
Concerning the part of share of both styles. Honestly, both are quite different, actually even black metal bands at the beginning where quite different among them.
Enslaved, Emperor, Hades (Almighty), Gorgoroth, Immortal, Mayhem, DarkThrone, etc. All those bands were quite different among them. Those bands were influenced by Helhammer, Celtic Frost and Bathory, among others of course, lets not forget Sarcofago from Brazil, and the rest of punk, thrash, and heavy metal influences.
if you take in consideration song structure you'll realize how different Death and Black are. Death being mostly a riff salad in which of course you need to have lots more of technique as a guitarist. In the other hand, in black metal you need to work a lot with the melody.

Concerning the ideology, Death was obsessed with the 'Only death is real' which is an old idea. Black was more fascinated with
fantasy, heroism, (both sharing a nihilist view though).

I'm not trying to say one style was better than the other. But both have a lot of differences which make them unique. (I love both styles and grew up with both of them).

 

[rexxzecutioner]

Actually it was the Swedish death metal scene that though Black metal was fag.

As far as I'm concerned, that isn't true at all.

The second generation of black metal shared the same melody driven song structures as Swedish death metal at that time.
Concerning the part of share of both styles. Honestly, both are quite different, actually even black metal bands at the beginning where quite different among them.
Enslaved, Emperor, Hades (Almighty), Gorgoroth, Immortal, Mayhem, DarkThrone, etc. All those bands were quite different among them. Those bands were influenced by Helhammer, Celtic Frost and Bathory, among others of course, lets not forget Sarcofago from Brazil, and the rest of punk, thrash, and heavy metal influences.
if you take in consideration song structure you'll realize how different Death and Black are. Death being mostly a riff salad in which of course you need to have lots more of technique as a guitarist. In the other hand, in black metal you need to work a lot with the melody.

Early(and most) black metal uses a repition of a melody, which is the same thing as an ostinato(riff). Black metal utilizes the minimalist approach much more than death metal, but you were commenting on the first wave of black metal which is largely just a progression from the raw death/thrash sounds. Which was what my entire arguement was about.

Concerning the ideology, Death was obsessed with the 'Only death is real' which is an old idea. Black was more fascinated with
fantasy, heroism, (both sharing a nihilist view though).

I'm not trying to say one style was better than the other. But both have a lot of differences which make them unique. (I love both styles and grew up with both of them).Now, what you said about metal shows up how much you don't know about.

LOL I don't even know how to approach this. Early death metal had no common ideologies. It was played by a bunch of teenagers who just focused on gore and anti-christian lyrics. Take a look at Scream Bloody Gore and Seven Churches, two of the first death metal albums and neither showed any particularly mature and thoughtful lyrics. However as death metal gained more of a grounding and established itself as an actual genre, the common ideologies were largely nihilistic and anti-christian.

And please, enough of the ad hominems. If anyone is displaying and extreme show of ignorance and bias here its you.

 

[Andy6000]

Please oh please calm down, for now I'm freezing this cause it's a bit too mean, I'll open it up tomorrow. And when that happens, be more nice.

EDIT: open again. Next time I'm closing it forever probably. Or someone else will, who knows.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

So what bands you like?

 

[Sirc]

First of all Black Metal didn't start with Bathory really, Venom and Celtic Frost really pioneered it (It did adopt Quorthon's raspy wailing vocals however), and Mayhem, Burzum and Darkthrone took it to it's peak.

Black Metal is not the opposite of Death Metal, like rexx stated. They share similar components, both utilize keyboards and symphonic elements and crushing evil rifts. Black Metal drummers usually focus blast beats. The main difference really is the vocals and themes. Black Metal has it's shriek/wail and a raw sound and Death Metal has it's brutal growl. Black Metal usually incorporates satanic or anti-Christian themes whereas Death Metal is generally just brutal/dark/morbid or introspective.

So they are different genres, of course, but they aren't opposites. Even if Black Metal was started as a rebellion against the more 'refined' Death Metal.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Just to point something out, venom wasn't a black metal band and not even a proto-Black Metal band, actually Venom used the term of 'black metal' in one of their songs and that's all.
Actually the main origins of Black Metal are Bathory(1983), Celtic Frost(1984) and Hellhammer(1982).
But I would have to add another band as well, the Brazilian band Sarcofago which was one band that pioneered the Black Metal sound as well. (I still remember the first time I listened some of those bands, back in 1986, I was young but I loved it heh).

Bands that influenced me are:
Bathory, Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Dark Throne, Behemoth, Beherit, Mayhem, Burzum, Enslaved, Emperor, Trelldom, Gorgoroth, Xantotol, Graveland and others.

Some recommended albums:

Dark Throne - Transilvanian Hunger
Behemoth - And the Forests Dream Eternally
Enslaved - Vikingligr Veldi
Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse
Burzum - Burzum - Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
Burzum - Det Som Engang Var
Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
Bathory - Under the Sing of the Black Mark
Bathory - Hammerheart
Bathory - Blood Fire Death
Celtic Frost - Morbid Tales/Emperor's Return
Celtic Frost - To Mega Therion
Summoning - Dol Guldur
Beherit - Drawing Down the Moon
Tha-Norr - Wolfenzeitalter
Kvist - For Kunsten Maa Vi Evig Vike

 

[Sirc]

Venom coined the term in an album name and is considered Black Metal, and an influence for a bunch of the late 80s and early 90s bands.

And Blood Fire Death and Hammerheart are the first two Viking Metal albums, nowhere really near Black Metal (besides the lyrics of BFD). Still arguably some of my favorite albums of all time.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

Venom coined the term yes in 1982 with the album Black Metal (are you trying to teach someone here?)
Earlier bands like Sodom and Bathory were mostly like a mix of thrash/speed.
Venom were mostly influential due to the occult lyrics, the simple compositions, growling vocals, and the fact band members used pseudonyms.

Also stating Bathory with their albums Blood Fire Death and Hammerheart created viking metal was quite unnecessary lol
I believe most fans of the style (real fans) know this already.
Now, I'm barely asking which bands influenced you and not how much you believe to know. Please, don't make this thread be closed again, thanks.

You're not helping much either, admittedly I can't exactly follow the conversation very well, but do try to keep it a little more civil! - Andy (oh and that goes for you too Sirc, we're stating opinions here [probably], not facts)

 

[Sirc]

No, I just said the album coined it because you said it was a song.
And that BFD and Hammerheart are Viking Metal because this is a Black Metal thread. I'm not trying to instigate anything.

But my favorite are the classic Black Metal bands. Burzum, of course, Immortal and Bathory being my favorites. I can listen to, but I don't so much agree with the satanic themes of Black Metal (Hence Burzum and Immortal). I'm much more of a Viking Metal fan, but Black Metal is still a great genre.

 

[Fallofthetyrant]

It is the album's name AND a song's name from the same album.

LYRICS:
VENOM - Black Metal

Black is the night, metal we fight
Power amps set to explode.
Energy screams, magic and dreams
Satan records the first note.
We chime the bell, chaos and hell
Metal for maniacs pure.
Fast melting steel, fortune on wheels
Brain hemorrhage is the cure.
For black metal!
lay down your souls to the gods rock 'n roll

Freaking so wild, nobody's mild
Giving it all that you got.
Wild is so right, metal tonight
Faster than over the top.
Open the door, enter hell's core
Black is the code for tonight.
Atomic force, feel no remorse
Crank up the amps now its night
black metal!
lay down your souls to the gods rock 'n roll
metal ten fold through the deadly black hole
riding hell's stallions bareback and free
taking our chances with raw energy

Come ride the night with us
Rock hard and fight
United my legions we stand
Freak hard and wild for us
Give up your soul
Live for the quest Satan's band

Against the odds, black metal gods
Fight to achieve our goal
Casting a spell, leather and hell
Black metal gods rock 'n roll
Building up steam, nuclear screams
War-heads are ready to fight
Black leather hounds, faster than sound
Metal our purpose in life
black metal!
lay down your souls to the gods rock 'n roll
black metal

And the satanic imagery is only a form of rebellion against the pre-established rules imposed by a decadent society.
Also, based on Nietzsche's The Anti-Christ, which explores Nihilism, one of the main ideologies of Black Metal and even Death Metal.

The way I see it, Black Metal is a style that was related to nature and our forgotten roots.