Language Difficulty

[Fallofthetyrant]

Hmm, English difficult? you are kidding me right? although it might be a bit difficult , it's nothing compared with Arabic, which might take you more than 10 years to properly learn, (I'm talking about the classic Arabic, and not the the different dialects used in Morocco, Alger, etc). Also French and Spanish could take you a lot to learn, (Well, if you think saying hola amigo is enough, god you are wrong). This is mostly due to the fact accents are extremely difficult to learn. Where do you put them? How are they pronounced? etc.
I would say another fairly easy language would be Norwegian, well, the main one, some of the dialects are lightly more difficult.

 

[Rhazdel]

Well, I think english is quite simple...but I'm studying it from 9 years (and I'm 17...)
And Rhazdel, look at the italian verbs, then we can talk about the english ones

I'm usually not picky about these things (and I don't mean it to criticize), but to prove a point, you have 2 grammar errors in your sentence.

Hmm, English difficult? you are kidding me right? although it might be a bit difficult , it's nothing compared with Arabic, which might take you more than 10 years to properly learn, (I'm talking about the classic Arabic, and not the the different dialects used in Morocco, Alger, etc). Also French and Spanish could take you a lot to learn, (Well, if you think saying hola amigo is enough, god you are wrong). This is mostly due to the fact accents are extremely difficult to learn. Where do you put them? How are they pronounced? etc.
I would say another fairly easy language would be Norwegian, well, the main one, some of the dialects are lightly more difficult.

10 years to learn? You know that people in the U.S. take college courses to learn English into their mid 20's, right (most countries teach their native language from birth in to late adolescence/adulthood)? And while accents are hard to learn, for most languages, once you know how to pronounce the accent, then you can always pronounce it, because the accent is always the same.

 

[WeissRaben]

I'm usually not picky about these things (and I don't mean it to criticize), but to prove a point, you have 2 grammar errors in your sentence.

I think I found at least one...but it is an error coming from italian forms translated in english.

 

[Rhazdel]

It is a very easy mistake to make, especially because it goes against much of how most foreign languages structure their sentences (which was kind of my point).

You used the current tense of "I am studying" instead of using a past tense of "I have been studying", because you are talking about an event that, even though you are currently still studying, started in the past.

Learning any language is going to be difficult, but a lot of people that say that English is easy have also been studying English since they were little (like you said, since you were 9). Children have been proven to pick up languages much more easily (and proficiently) when taught at a younger age.

But structurally and grammatically, English is one of the more complex languages in existence.

 

[arcthemonkey]

Convoluted or hodgepodge are also good descriptors.

 

[Selwyn]

I have to disagree with anyone who said English was hard.
You certainly never learned French then.

First of all, French has a lot of different accents and letter that aren't used at all in english : ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?. (EDIT : the letters don't show for some reason, sorry)

Secondly, very often (if not always) not every letters in a word are pronounced.
ex : the word 'sept' which is pronounced like 'set'.
There's also a lot more different sounds in French than in English, like u, ou, au, an, en, ein, ouin, etc...
And Frankly, I've never met any foreigner who was able to pronouce all of them correctly (I didn't say perfectly I said correctly.) Most English/American people I've met in Switzerland (they were learning French) weren't able to make 'dessus' and 'dessous' sound different. (under and above).

The pronouns (the this that them who I you him/her it, etc...) sometime change according if the noun they go with is 'feminine', 'masculine', 'plural feminine' or 'plural masculine'

The adjectives changes if the noun they go with is 'feminine', 'masculine', 'plural feminine' or 'plural masculine'
ex : sing: une belle table (a nice table)// plural: des belles tables (some nice tables)

There's much more grammar rules and exeptions than in English.

Even if there's a lot of irregular conjugations in English, there's much more Tenses in French and there's as many irregular verbs as there's in English (if not much). Also, the verbs change according the pronoun (I, Thou, Him/Her, We, You, They : they all change the verb in a different way)

ex :
EN To Do
I Do
Thou Doest (Dost?) (I'm not sure about thou since it's not used anymore)
Him/Her/It Does
We Do
You Do
They Do

EN Faire (to do)
Je fais
Tu fais
Il/Elle fais
Nous faisons
Vous faites
Ils font

other ex :
Nous F?mes (We did) is different from Nous Faisions (We did)...

Also it's completely false to say that English's grammar is more complex than French's. They're basically very very similar (if not the same). As for having studied English for at least 10 years I can assure that every grammar rule I've seen in English either exists in French or has a close equivalent.

I'm not saying French is the hardest language but it's certainly harder than English.
Learn French and welcome to hell.

 

[WeissRaben]

I have to disagree with anyone who said English was hard.
You certainly never learned French then.

First of all, French has a lot of different accents and letter that aren't used at all in english : ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?. (EDIT : the letters don't show for some reason, sorry)

Secondly, very often (if not always) not every letters in a word are pronounced.
ex : the word 'sept' which is pronounced like 'set'.
There's also a lot more different sounds in French than in English, like u, ou, au, an, en, ein, ouin, etc...
And Frankly, I've never met any foreigner who was able to pronouce all of them correctly (I didn't say perfectly I said correctly.) Most English/American people I've met in Switzerland (they were learning French) weren't able to make 'dessus' and 'dessous' sound different. (under and above).

The pronouns (the this that them who I you him/her it, etc...) sometime change according if the noun they go with is 'feminine', 'masculine', 'plural feminine' or 'plural masculine'

The adjectives changes if the noun they go with is 'feminine', 'masculine', 'plural feminine' or 'plural masculine'
ex : sing: une belle table (a nice table)// plural: des belles tables (some nice tables)

There's much more grammar rules and exeptions than in English.

Even if there's a lot of irregular conjugations in English, there's much more Tenses in French and there's as many irregular verbs as there's in English (if not much). Also, the verbs change according the pronoun (I, Thou, Him/Her, We, You, They : they all change the verb in a different way)

ex :
EN To Do
I Do
Thou Doest (Dost?) (I'm not sure about thou since it's not used anymore)
Him/Her/It Does
We Do
You Do
They Do

EN Faire (to do)
Je fais
Tu fais
Il/Elle fais
Nous faisons
Vous faites
Ils font

other ex :
Nous F?mes (We did) is different from Nous Faisions (We did)...

Also it's completely false to say that English's grammar is more complex than French's. They're basically very very similar (if not the same). As for having studied English for at least 10 years I can assure that every grammar rule I've seen in English either exists in French or has a close equivalent.

I'm not saying French is the hardest language but it's certainly harder than English.
Learn French and welcome to hell.

Italian is similar...using the same example of Selwyn:

To Do (Fare)

Io Faccio
Tu Fai
Egli/Ella Fa
Noi Facciamo
Voi Fate
Essi Fanno

And Io Feci (I Did) is different from Io ho Fatto (I Did, another time)
And French and Italian have very, very similar grammars...I had an hard time when I studied it (French), and probably, if Italian wasn't my mother tongue, I would have gone crazy on it too...

PS: I talked about objective impressions...to me, Italian is not hard 'cause is my mother tongue

 

[Selwyn]

Well, it's natural that Italian and French are similar because they're both Latin Languages. They have basically the same grammar, the same tenses and the same words with the same meanings. Although the words are differents of course.

 

[Rhazdel]

I have to disagree with anyone who said English was hard.
You certainly never learned French then.

I'm not saying French is the hardest language but it's certainly harder than English.
Learn French and welcome to hell.

I took 3 years of French lessons (which hardly makes me an expert, but at least I have a taste of what French has to offer). Most of those things that you have pointed out about French stand for any language. Accents? Every language has a learning curve for accents, including English and the same goes for the verb changing with the subject. I stand by my original statement. It's just my opinion.

 

[arcthemonkey]

I agree, almost everything you said can be said about English, so it hardly stands as as evidence French is harder.

I mean, you talk about conjugations, but apart from -ing, and -ed endings, there are pretty much NO conjugation rules in English.

Sit
Sat
Run
Ran
Jump
Jumped
Lay
Lie
Spin
Spun
Spinned

Do you see a pattern?

No?

There is none, and never is.

Pretty much every verb must be memorized along with its specific conjugations.

My ex was French, and conjugating verbs is something she still has trouble with after speaking the language for 12 years.

She still uses words like "swimmed" instead of "swam", "runned" instead of "ran". Unless someone reminds her that English verbs, in most cases, are not conjugated at all. I find it difficult to think of non-irregular nouns.

Just because our verbs aren't transformed by pronouns doesn't make them any easier. This is one of the main notable differences between English and latin languages, along with English not concerning itself with the gender of table legs. However, such eccentricities aren't especially difficult to at least get the gist of.

I'm not saying French isn't hard, but I've honestly never heard anyone complain before. I went to a liberal arts school that teaches like 7 languages, and two of my closest friends their were Foreign Language majors (Some sort of meta triple bachelor program) and the only languages they ever complained about were Chinese and English. (They were native Thai and German respectively, and both were in my Japanese study group.)

Perhaps I'm grasping at straws to defend my unanimous experiance and 3rd person testimony, but when you hang out with linguists, these conversations come up, and you tend to take their word for it.

I don't know what you mean by french having more tenses. I wasn't aware there were any more.

And Thou Dost isn't ever used in english except in parody. It means "You do" as well.

 

[kimpoy2006]

Well I think that what is meant by "Most Difficult Languages" is how long it takes for a person in average to learn it. You don't count the natives as part of that average since they are surrounded by people who speak it plus, the natives use it regularly as means of regular communication. If you're living in Japan, you learn to speak & read Japanese faster than foreign people who learn it at school.

Why? because you don't just learn Japanese in Japan you apply it in an everyday basis, you don't learn Japanese (as a native) and read German road signs or French Instruction Manuals on how to use a lighter. You also learn the accents faster if you are applied in that similar state.

Well, for me I learned English very early because my parents and siblings speak it as our base standard of communication. I also learned it because my things were written in English, and signs were in English, instructions in English.

I didn't have a hard time learning Chinese (Fookien, although I forgot because I never really used it until the time when I've forgotten about it [which is now] [I studied Chinese because I noticed Chinese business men talk about business and money matters in Chinese. I wanted to know what my dad's business partners were saying hehe.]).
English english, well if you do strive hard enough to learn, you'll get it (com'on
I mean its just language, will it take you a lifetime?) \

I never actually memorized verbs and all I just instinctively guess (runned? nah.. ran? yep! umm crossed/crass? crossed). I still get good grades in English!

 

[Selwyn]

well okay, there are many irregular verbs in english.
But apart from that I don't see why it's harder.
Every noun in French is either masculine/feminine which may not be difficult for learn but for English natives (f. ex.) it could be hard to learn as the only things that are feminine or masculine in English are people and sometimes animals...

Maybe French isn't harder but I think there's a lot more to learn. Alas I'm certainly biased as French's my first language. Maybe someone who's mother tongue isn't French neither English and who knows both could clear the matter...

 

[Rhazdel]

Just as a small side-note:

Even though it is technically English slang, the English language does, often apply male/female traits to inanimate objects.

For example, a ship is often times referred to as "she", as well as the ocean. A line of business is sometimes called "she" (ie: "She [show business] can be a cruel mistress"), as well.

I only offer this as a sidenote of interest, because it is slang and not technically grammatically correct.

 

[Kraft]

I have actually read an article somewhere that universally, english is the second hardest language to learn, and that some chinese is the hardest.. (not normal chinese, but a different branch of it)

I myself speak english, and have realized that it is pretty hard to learn all of it, and I have had an exchange student from korea who made the same mistakes (ran=runned) as your ex arc ^_^

 

[WeissRaben]

well okay, there are many irregular verbs in english.

Yeah, but english irregular verbs are 3 words in all. In Italian, only the present tense are 6 different words.

 

[Rhazdel]

Yes, but they are all standardized conjugations.

In many languages (ie: French), you really just need to know how to conjugate verbs and then, whenever you learn a new verb, you can run it through the same conjugation format and will come out with a perfectly conjugated verb (with few exceptions).

For example (my French is a little rusty, so bare with me if I make a mistake):

Avoir aimer - To like (past tense)
j'ai aime - I liked.............nous avon aime - We liked
tu as aimes - You liked.....vous avez aime - You liked (formal)
il a aime - He liked...........ils ont aime - He liked (plural)
elle a aime - She liked......elles ont aime - She liked (plural)

Avoir parler - To speak (past tense)
j'ai parle - I speak.............nous avons parle - We spoke
tu as parle - You spoke......vous avez parle - You spoke (formal)
il a parle - He speaks.........ils ont parle - They spoke (males)
elle a parle - She speaks....elles ont parle - They spoke (females)

Conjugation is identical in 90% of all like verbs.

But, in the English equivilents, the infinitives "to like" and "to speak" are very similar, but why not "I speaked"? Why are all the plurals of "to speak" -> "spoke", but it's also that way for "you"?

The list goes on. There really is no set pattern or formula for conjugations, which adds to the confusion.

 

[WeissRaben]

In Italian, Past Participle is made adding "ato" "eto" or "ito" to the verb root, seconding the coniugation (another thing absent in English).
Why in Italian is not "Ho Faciuto" but "Ho Fatto"?
Why in Italian is not "Ho Diciuto" but "Ho Detto"?
Why in Italian is not "Ho Cuociuto" but "Ho Cotto"?
Why in Italian is not "Ho Morduto" but "Ho Morso"?

And Passato Remoto (Which is a part of the english Past Simple) is made by adding "ai", "ei" or "ii" to the verb root, always seconding the coniugation (only the first person, obviously)
Why in Italian is not "Nascei" but "Nacqui"?

Irregulars are equal in each language, but in Italian irregular verbs have the bad attitude to have a different form per each person.

PS: Oh, and the french verbs you used are regular.

 

[Rhazdel]

I know.

The main point is that English really doesn't have any regular verbs. There are exceptions to French and any other language, but at least most languages have a fairly regular conjugation system.

 

[WeissRaben]

Talk? Stay? Join? Calculate? Aren't these verbs regular?

 

[Rhazdel]

In a sense, yes.

But there is no way to distinguish "regular" verbs from "irregular" verbs.

With French, if the infinitive form ends in -er, then it typically is a regular verb (with very few exceptions).

There is nothing to denote that in English. A person must simply remember the conjugations on a word-by-word basis.