Kahlil Gibran, On Joy and Sorrow

[Trek22]

Alright, as is the custom when I enter a new forum and there is a poetry thread somewhere I'll post a favorite poem of mine from Kahlil Gibran.  Its my belief that an entire philosophy can be built behind this priniciple and over the last several years I've been slowly developing a theory on it.  I'm not going to go into that theory here, but this is the poem in question;

"On Joy & Sorrow"



Then a woman said, "Speak to us of Joy and Sorrow."

And he answered:

Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.

And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.

And how else can it be?

The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.

Is not the cup that hold your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit, the very wood that was hollowed with knives?

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.

When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.

Some of you say, "Joy is greater than sorrow," and others say, "Nay, sorrow is the greater."

But I say unto you, they are inseparable.

Together they come, and when one sits alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed.

Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy.

Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced.

When the treasure-keeper lifts you to weigh his gold and his silver, needs must your joy or your sorrow rise or fall.


The PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran

 

[e]

That's pretty good. I like how it's written.

And I have to agree with you; joy is inseparable from sorrow, as each defines the other, the same way night defines day (as in, not-night) and day defines night (as in, not-day). Same for cold/heat, light/dark, good/evil.

At the same time, the joy/sorrow pair is quite different (at least, in my opinion); being emotions, they tend to the extremes, in such a way that if something can bring you greater joy, it can also bring you greater sorrow (and vice-versa).

I can't remember where, but I once read an essay about the loss principle; mainly that the emotional value we attach to a certain object/idea/thingmabob, the joy it can bring us is inversely proportional to the pain that it can cause us.

 

[Trek22]

That's pretty good. I like how it's written.

And I have to agree with you; joy is inseparable from sorrow, as each defines the other, the same way night defines day (as in, not-night) and day defines night (as in, not-day). Same for cold/heat, light/dark, good/evil.

At the same time, the joy/sorrow pair is quite different (at least, in my opinion); being emotions, they tend to the extremes, in such a way that if something can bring you greater joy, it can also bring you greater sorrow (and vice-versa).

I can't remember where, but I once read an essay about the loss principle; mainly that the emotional value we attach to a certain object/idea/thingmabob, the joy it can bring us is inversely proportional to the pain that it can cause us.

Yea see that has interested me quite a bit, the fact that the greater joy we can achieve can also mean the deeper the sorrow we can achieve.  Which means that you could have nothing and live just fine, but if you lost everything you strived to gain it could be irreversibly damaging.  Its too bad you can't remember the source of that essay because I would very much like to read it.  I've had a theory surrounding this principal for quite some time and I always strive to read up on someone elses take on it.

Its fascinating because I can relate it to a lot of things both in religion and actual experience that speaks louder than any religion out there.  Thanks for the reply, I'm glad that someone else can see the significance of it, the majority of people who read this poem really don't get the full impact of its meaning.

 

[e]

I've tracked it down; it's the first part of Georges Bataille's book, The Accursed Share. I'm unsure if all editions carry this first part, however, as it seems to be a separate essay which was bundled up with the book. The essay's name is, in French, "La notion de perte"; The Notion of Loss.

 

[Trek22]

I've tracked it down; it's the first part of Georges Bataille's book, The Accursed Share. I'm unsure if all editions carry this first part, however, as it seems to be a separate essay which was bundled up with the book. The essay's name is, in French, "La notion de perte"; The Notion of Loss.

I appologize for not replying to this sooner, its excellent you found the source you were talking about.  I'll definately look into this essay so thank you.