Ivalice Alliance

[Sion]

Why crisis core will rule the world.

http://uk.psp.ign.com/articles/751/751423p1.html

Theres a trailer I posted a few pages back too.

 

[Fafnir]

I'm so tired of seeing all these remakes. Especially since most games on the Wii are either remakes of GCN games with Wii controls, games that look like they could be GCN games, or games that were origionally planned for the GCN but moved to the Wii.
It's very dissapointing when companies can't put forth enough origionality to make a new game, and just use "new controls" as an excuse.

 

[xmcdohlx]

Fafnir...
1.wiimote owns, now I want a wii ._.
2.new controls new excuse? what determines "next-gen"? gettin closer to VR aye? so BOTH graphics AND controls play an important role, it's just that no one seemed to give a damn bout controls
3.that's y the wii is so cheap

 

[Fafnir]

Just so you know, I will be getting a Wii(after Christmas, and it will be my only of the 3 next gen consoles), but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to critisize the system and developers. In fact, it gives me more reason to do so. I want to pay for quality, not just "remake for new controller". Because if we keep getting games like that, then the people who keep saying that the Wii is just a GCN with a new controller will win.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Square has gone way too far with milking their games. A sequel every once in a while is fine, but giving one to every game, or remakes up the wazoo, or giving 213012498094375 side stories(VII) is plain milking. Especially considering that most of the time, they suck. It's too late for Square now, their basicly a big cash machine now.

 

[Xilef]

I've recently completed FFTA 100%
The world of Ivalice is really scary! The whole storyline behind it freaks me out.

 

[xmcdohlx]

well I agree SQUARE is milking their games. specially FF7.
FF7:
-Advent Children: hmmm, I liked it, but it's not OMGOMGOMGOMG amazing.
-Last Order: *YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWN*
-Dirge of Cerberus: horrible game, HORRIBLE.
-DoC sequel on mobile, forgot name T.T
-Before Crisis: umm...mobile no thx, wth.
-Crisis Core: meh, the game LOOKs cool but, the storyline is too cheesy now.

FFX:
-FFX-2: fun gameplay, and levels > sphere grid IMO, but c'mon, lame storyline and recycled maps...

FF1, 2, 4, 5, 6:
-2398423984723984729341242348203489238235074937049034720397 ports.

FFXI:
-dont get me wrong I love this game, but it's like 4 years old and membership still $12.99 monthly? that's...greedy.

FFXII:
-taking advantage of the series reputation they release a collector's edition which is so not worth the $10+ it used to be. the metallic box owns tho.
-new game coming for DS.

Nintendo:
-releasing mediocre games with WTF character designs, too fantastic in comparison to the "realistic" design of the mainstream series (xcept IX yo).
-now sequels for them, w00t...¬¬

FFXIII:
-game ain't out yet and they already announced 3 titles...
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy Versus XIII
Final Fantasy Agito XIII (mobile ¬¬)

FFIX:
-Tetra Master online. who the hell would pay to play that? it's cool but...c'mon.

that's it for FF series, but there's also KH which I don't feel like bashing cuz the fanbase pretty strong atm n i would prolly get killed xD

 

[FlippyD]

Bah, I used to be the biggest KH fan ever. I payed $500 for a custom made Organization XIII trench before the game was released, own every copy of the game ever released, have both soundtracks, yadda yadda yadda, you get the picture.

I can understand when someone criticizes KH, so long as it makes sense (and isn't "it sux cuz deres disney characterz!! lol!").

Spoiler

KH2 was a step-up from the original, but it fell on it's ass as far as story is concerned. KH left things so open-ended, and the screenwriters had a lot of headroom and already established content to use, and they threw it all away. KH2 seemed less Disney than the original and more made-up tired old FF-throwaway characters (which, it seems, is all Tetsuya Nomura knows how to do nowadays.)

The members of Organization XIII should have been characters we already knew, or the nobody forms of the bosses you fought in the first game or something. Everybody was so excited trying to decifer which characters were a part of Organization XIII after the first game, and then CoM and KH2 ruined it because they made knew, fairly generic characters who died immediately and had no real importance except for Roxas and Axel.

The first part... With Roxas... Pointless and a waste of time. Why do I need an hour+ long tutorial on how to skateboard and hit things? It's not like there's all that much skill involved in KH's battle system to begin with.

What happened to the copy Riku from CoM? He just kinda ran off, never to be seen again.

And, of course, KH has its own spinoffs, small in number as they may be. There's CoM, which kind of teeters the line, and then there's the mobile game which went... Nowhere.

Of course, KH has it's own manga, and the TV show I think is still in pre-production.

Though, it's not like there's much SE can do with the liscense, since Disney holds half the reins.

All the spinoffs really tell me SE isn't interested in making games, moreso it's about the money. And before that it was more about storyline than gameplay. Which isn't a bad thing, but it's dragged a part of the RPG market (mainstream console JRPGs) into the shitter. There's nowhere to go but upping graphics. These aren't games, their interactive movies with game parts added unto them. I see SE games more like Indigo Prohpecy/Farhenheit than RPGs.

There's no reason to make spinoffs of the FF games. Maybe if some of them were fun, but not a single one has jumped out as lukewarm entertaining.

 

[Dopples]

Bah, I used to be the biggest KH fan ever. I payed $500 for a custom made Organization XIII trench before the game was released, own every copy of the game ever released, have both soundtracks, yadda yadda yadda, you get the picture.

I can understand when someone criticizes KH, so long as it makes sense (and isn't "it sux cuz deres disney characterz!! lol!").

Spoiler

KH2 was a step-up from the original, but it fell on it's ass as far as story is concerned. KH left things so open-ended, and the screenwriters had a lot of headroom and already established content to use, and they threw it all away. KH2 seemed less Disney than the original and more made-up tired old FF-throwaway characters (which, it seems, is all Tetsuya Nomura knows how to do nowadays.)

The members of Organization XIII should have been characters we already knew, or the nobody forms of the bosses you fought in the first game or something. Everybody was so excited trying to decifer which characters were a part of Organization XIII after the first game, and then CoM and KH2 ruined it because they made knew, fairly generic characters who died immediately and had no real importance except for Roxas and Axel.

The first part... With Roxas... Pointless and a waste of time. Why do I need an hour+ long tutorial on how to skateboard and hit things? It's not like there's all that much skill involved in KH's battle system to begin with.

What happened to the copy Riku from CoM? He just kinda ran off, never to be seen again.

And, of course, KH has its own spinoffs, small in number as they may be. There's CoM, which kind of teeters the line, and then there's the mobile game which went... Nowhere.

Of course, KH has it's own manga, and the TV show I think is still in pre-production.

Though, it's not like there's much SE can do with the liscense, since Disney holds half the reins.

All the spinoffs really tell me SE isn't interested in making games, moreso it's about the money. And before that it was more about storyline than gameplay. Which isn't a bad thing, but it's dragged a part of the RPG market (mainstream console JRPGs) into the shitter. There's nowhere to go but upping graphics. These aren't games, their interactive movies with game parts added unto them. I see SE games more like Indigo Prohpecy/Farhenheit than RPGs.

There's no reason to make spinoffs of the FF games. Maybe if some of them were fun, but not a single one has jumped out as lukewarm entertaining.

I love this post, but I want to delve into CoM a little...


Ok, the reason CoM was the most enjoyable one for me was because it revealed a little on the mysterious "Organization", but not a lot. The amount that was given to us was actually very good, and seemed to make one think that KH2 would follow up and make it something great. But...like you said, it failed.


Hard.

Now there's a KH3, where they seem to do everything to get rid of the Disney feel alltogether, with the closest thing being the Kingdom Key. I for one am not interested.

 

[arcthemonkey]

Ahh but Dopples, you fell for the same lie a friend of mine fell for.

Watch the KH2 teaser trailer. It's like the exact same sort of thing as the KH3teaser trailer. The game will look NOTHING like the trailer just like KH2 looks NOTHING like the KH2 teaser.

Also, Disney Bought Pixar so Toy Story world, here we come!

KH is a split IP, Disney will always be a huge part of it.

Anyway, I think your implication that the FF spinoffs, tactics sequals and so on and so forth somehow imply that SE isn't trying to make good games and only make money is really kind of lame. It may sound insultative, but yes, I'm saying your opinion is lame. You seem to somehow assume that when game makers spend years molding deep and colorful worlds and characters they simple cut them off, forget about them, and move on. This isn't even remotely reasonable to imply. Say what you will about Tetsuya Nomura talent, but the man really care about his characters, and he puts a lot of thought and energy into them. You think fans - the rabid consumers - are the only people who want sequals? Bullshit. You think people at SE are thinking, "Damnit, I don't want to make another fecking FFVII game!"

I don't mean to imply that the fans and consumers don't play a part, but they aren't just spitting these games at us because it lines their pockets. SE doesn't make half-assed games, and as I'm sure you've noticed - just about every game they've ever made has enormous production values.

Square doesn't want to make games? Then why the hell do they make so many?

 

[xmcdohlx]

ixis ur post is sooo damn true and you forgot...

Spoiler

-Was DiZ necessary at ALL? it seems like they just added him and ran out of ideas to think of his identity.
-Ansems. Riku was ansem, Ansem is Ansem, DiZ is Ansem, Xenmas is Ansem, Everyone is Ansem. Riku being Ansem seems like another last minute solution to reveal "that" Ansem's identity, I find it hard to believe they had planned that.
-Hey Kairi can hold keyblades...?
-Naminé...I kinda expected her to be related to Kairi but the explanation they gave seemed last minute too.
-Agreed. Roxas part was cool but...pointless.
-The final boss, sitting on the throne with all the Org's weapon looked badass but he NEVER stood up WTF? lazy designers / programmers?
-Did not fix button mashing aspect of KH1. y the hell even give us magic.
-Agreed. Organization characters needed a LOT more development, they could have been greater, and also WTF with not including Larxene, Marluxia and Vexen? They kick ass.
-Got 7.6 from IGN.
-Way too easy. And Sephiroth was cool on KH but y the hell repeat it!!!!?!?
-CS after u defeat sephiroth...WTF.
-We all knew, at the climatic scene where Goofy falls unconscious and Mickey goes angry. that Goofy would come back, because it's Disney. So if you're going to make something soooo predictable to try to be cool, don't do it, cuz it's worse.
-Maleficient revived, another thing explained in a rush...
-Atlantica...holy mother of God, it was a TORTURE.
-Agrabah and 100 Acre Wood again. (Colisseum was too different tho, and Halloween Town owns so I can't complain.)
-A new set of Ansem Reports...?
-The last part, DiZ's machine and all that, damn it, wtf was nomura thinkin.
-Secret ending...series should have stopped at 1.

lol

 

[Petros]

Right I'm usually first to bash the Final Fantasy series for sub-par games, I mean I'm the guy who wrote the "Things I Don't Like About the Final Fantasy Games" in a "What do you like about the Final Fantasy Games" thread.

But here I draw the line. I think spin-offs and sequels are a GOOD thing, no longer do we have to wait like 5 years between the games. The sequels provide us with a good source of entertainment in the meantime.

The Sequels like Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus are keeping things from getting boring! It gives us some entertainment, and this is an ENTERTAINMENT business, that's right, it's a business, in a business you sell, they buy. It's how you make money, people bought Advent Children didn't they, people played Dirge of Ceberus didn't they? Exactly, they did their jobs!

Just because they're not as good as their predecessors, doesn't meant their a waste of time. Infact, if it wasn't for some of these games others would never have been invented. E.G: Advent Children's fight scenes inspired the battle system of FFXIII.

What a shocker, people bitch about sequels. Well guess what, life doesn't end when the bad guys are defeated, sometimes, they come back, sometimes new bad guys come along. People don't always live happily ever after.

Oh and as for the ports, if we didn't have these ports they about 85% of you would never have even played FF1-6!

I rest my case and don't even bother trying to fight back, I'm going to ignore you.

PS: There's 4 FFXIII games actually. XIII, Versus XIII, Agito XIII and Haerisis XIII.

 

[arcthemonkey]

Off-topic KH thingy:

Spoiler

I think some people here are taking Kingdom Hearts way too seriously, almost to the point of stubbornly insisting they could have done better. (Ixis, I'm looking at you.) Personally, I thought that most of the Organization XIII members were uninteresting, and only really missed the presence of one of them in KH2. (Read: I'm not bitter or critical of their existance, because I wasn't made to suffer them for long.) This didn't make them bad characters. If we were dropped into drawn out exposition with all of them, I may well have blown my brains out.
I don't see why everyone seems to demand that every character in every game be developed and critical to the story - while it's perhaps not entirely reasonable to draw this parallel with video games, such a demand is simply not true to life. Why should the origins of the Organization XIII members have significance besides the simple fact they are nobodies? If they were the nobodies from the heartless bosses of Kingdom Hearts 1, that still doesn't complete their development. Who was the person who resulted in that heartless and nobody? Why should we care? We shouldn't. Sometimes we encounter people who affect our lives in some way, but aside from that encounter they have no significance to us. Do we really need to get into the past and family life of every spiky haired enemy we come across? No. No. No. No.

It also makes me wonder why people don't want more development for Donald and Goofy, being exceptionally shallow characters in an RPG type environment. But wait, it doesn't matter how well developed Donald and Goofy are, because it's not important. You may say, "Come on, everyone already knows who Donald and Goofy are." Not really, not in the way other characters are often expected to meet.

I think a few people here have unrealistic expectations for sequals. They demand that their every whim be met, and every plot hole be closed, and dare not suffer expecations of presumption or interpretation. If you really don't want anything left to interpretation, you're playing the wrong frikkin genre. You want every character to behave the way you think they should, when sadly you aren't the one who created them and have no say. You don't demand these things from real people, do you? You spend 30-60 hours with these characters and suddenly think you know them, and in your expectation of sublime human depth you presume to predict their every move and desire and intention. You expect these worlds to conform to your specific idea of what they are, when you are not the one who defines these worlds. You're playing with the wrong medium people.

People are so quick to criticize sequals and series. They expect evolution but reject and deride it when it comes. A story or mechanic can't change yet stay the same! Maybe some of us really need to examine the the source of our expectations in these cases.

If you really want stories to go the way you want them to, maybe you should try writing them yourselves. Maybe you'll learn how hard it is.

Me? I loved Final Fantasy VII. I was thoroughly entertained and inspired by Advent Children, and though it would be my shame, I enjoyed Dirge of Cerberus even through my second play-through. I await Crisis Core like a long absent friend. I think it's great to think of how characters I've spent so much time with may have been in the past we're being presented with, although I hold no grandiose expectations. I may well be dissapointed, but that will in no way cheapen for me the rest of experiances I've had with it.

Same thing for the Ivalice alliance. Call me crazy but I'm thrilled to be given the excuse to beat Tactics for the 4rth time. New jobs? Sweet! Revenant Wings seems cool. Vahn and Penelo are frikkin awesome. Heck, I think the guy with the big red wings looks stupid, but I'm not sitting here stewing about it, cutting holes in my $500 jacket and fussing my awkwardly plastic'd cosplay hair-do.

Bring the frikkin sequals on! Fan-service? I've said it once and I'll say it again, but if I've said it too many times it's twice - I'm a fan, and I damned well expect to be serviced.

 

[Vash]

FFXII: Revenant Wings trailer:
http://www.cubed3.com/news/6507/1/FFXII_Revenant_Wings_(Update_-_New_Trailer)

 

[Zankoku no Yami]

Right I'm usually first to bash the Final Fantasy series for sub-par games, I mean I'm the guy who wrote the "Things I Don't Like About the Final Fantasy Games" in a "What do you like about the Final Fantasy Games" thread.

But here I draw the line. I think spin-offs and sequels are a GOOD thing, no longer do we have to wait like 5 years between the games. The sequels provide us with a good source of entertainment in the meantime.

The Sequels like Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus are keeping things from getting boring! It gives us some entertainment, and this is an ENTERTAINMENT business, that's right, it's a business, in a business you sell, they buy. It's how you make money, people bought Advent Children didn't they, people played Dirge of Ceberus didn't they? Exactly, they did their jobs!

Just because they're not as good as their predecessors, doesn't meant their a waste of time. Infact, if it wasn't for some of these games others would never have been invented. E.G: Advent Children's fight scenes inspired the battle system of FFXIII.

What a shocker, people bitch about sequels. Well guess what, life doesn't end when the bad guys are defeated, sometimes, they come back, sometimes new bad guys come along. People don't always live happily ever after.

Oh and as for the ports, if we didn't have these ports they about 85% of you would never have even played FF1-6!

I rest my case and don't even bother trying to fight back, I'm going to ignore you.

PS: There's 4 FFXIII games actually. XIII, Versus XIII, Agito XIII and Haerisis XIII.

Off-topic KH thingy:

Spoiler

I think some people here are taking Kingdom Hearts way too seriously, almost to the point of stubbornly insisting they could have done better. (Ixis, I'm looking at you.) Personally, I thought that most of the Organization XIII members were uninteresting, and only really missed the presence of one of them in KH2. (Read: I'm not bitter or critical of their existance, because I wasn't made to suffer them for long.) This didn't make them bad characters. If we were dropped into drawn out exposition with all of them, I may well have blown my brains out.
I don't see why everyone seems to demand that every character in every game be developed and critical to the story - while it's perhaps not entirely reasonable to draw this parallel with video games, such a demand is simply not true to life. Why should the origins of the Organization XIII members have significance besides the simple fact they are nobodies? If they were the nobodies from the heartless bosses of Kingdom Hearts 1, that still doesn't complete their development. Who was the person who resulted in that heartless and nobody? Why should we care? We shouldn't. Sometimes we encounter people who affect our lives in some way, but aside from that encounter they have no significance to us. Do we really need to get into the past and family life of every spiky haired enemy we come across? No. No. No. No.

It also makes me wonder why people don't want more development for Donald and Goofy, being exceptionally shallow characters in an RPG type environment. But wait, it doesn't matter how well developed Donald and Goofy are, because it's not important. You may say, "Come on, everyone already knows who Donald and Goofy are." Not really, not in the way other characters are often expected to meet.

I think a few people here have unrealistic expectations for sequals. They demand that their every whim be met, and every plot hole be closed, and dare not suffer expecations of presumption or interpretation. If you really don't want anything left to interpretation, you're playing the wrong frikkin genre. You want every character to behave the way you think they should, when sadly you aren't the one who created them and have no say. You don't demand these things from real people, do you? You spend 30-60 hours with these characters and suddenly think you know them, and in your expectation of sublime human depth you presume to predict their every move and desire and intention. You expect these worlds to conform to your specific idea of what they are, when you are not the one who defines these worlds. You're playing with the wrong medium people.

People are so quick to criticize sequals and series. They expect evolution but reject and deride it when it comes. A story or mechanic can't change yet stay the same! Maybe some of us really need to examine the the source of our expectations in these cases.

If you really want stories to go the way you want them to, maybe you should try writing them yourselves. Maybe you'll learn how hard it is.

Me? I loved Final Fantasy VII. I was thoroughly entertained and inspired by Advent Children, and though it would be my shame, I enjoyed Dirge of Cerberus even through my second play-through. I await Crisis Core like a long absent friend. I think it's great to think of how characters I've spent so much time with may have been in the past we're being presented with, although I hold no grandiose expectations. I may well be dissapointed, but that will in no way cheapen for me the rest of experiances I've had with it.

Same thing for the Ivalice alliance. Call me crazy but I'm thrilled to be given the excuse to beat Tactics for the 4rth time. New jobs? Sweet! Revenant Wings seems cool. Vahn and Penelo are frikkin awesome. Heck, I think the guy with the big red wings looks stupid, but I'm not sitting here stewing about it, cutting holes in my $500 jacket and fussing my awkwardly plastic'd cosplay hair-do.

Bring the frikkin sequals on! Fan-service? I've said it once and I'll say it again, but if I've said it too many times it's twice - I'm a fan, and I damned well expect to be serviced.

I'd have to agree with both of you here. You both make excellent points that express just how I feel.

@Petros: Very true on the remakes. I would have NEVER played FF 1-6 were it not for all these slight remake/ports over to the systems like PS. When I first heard they were doing this, I was thrilled! FINALLY I could see how it all started and live the experience! I am very thankful for these. Remakes give you a chance to re-experience everything all over again or even for the first time!

@arcthemonkey: I know that I feel a bit dissapointed with KH2. But only because I fell they had SO much more they could put into it, at least, story wise. And as a writer, i just hate when potential is wasted. But I refuse to let such a small thing really stop me from enjoying a great game. So i do agree with what you said. RGPs arent about answering everything and understanding a character perfectly. Maybe if it were a long running series using the same characters, you might feel that way. But RPGs are usually a one shot thing. You dont get anymore than what is in the game.

I also enjoyed Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus. And God Almighty, I am anxiously looking forward to Crisis Core! My only complaint with the Ivalice thing, is the sequals and what not are all split up XD I JUST got a PSP, now they add MORE to the reason why I should get a DS too?? THE MADNESS!! Too many systems to get with so very little money... yeah, thats all i can complain about XP

 

[vrdi]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! I AM SO EXCITED! I CAN'T SLEEP! (man these games are gonna kill me...) I JUST CAN'T WAIT, I AM A FUCKING HUDE FINAL FANTASY FAN (pardon my language) AND i CAN'T BELIVE THEY ARE BRINGING BACK JUST ABOUT THE GREATEST GAMES IN THE SERIES! I have every single Final Fantasy game, including the originals...just jmore to add to my collection!^^ :yes:

 

[Dopples]

KH2 WAS under-developed. I'm not asking for a lot, I'm asking for what they promised us. With KH2, they kept on showing pictures of "Blonde Haired Kid", gave him two keyblades, giving him artwork, hell, acting like he was gonna be part of the story....but all he was, was a bump. He acted as your tutorial, and that's it. Very little story, and Sora never even learns much about Roxas other then the fact that himself and Roxas are connected somehow.



Though I am glad they fleshed out his story more in Final Mix+. That was cool, though it still didn't reveal a lot, other then the depth of how close Roxas and Axel were.