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is speed ALL Sonic needs?

This seems to be a recurring arguement at Nintendo's site. A bunch of Sonic fans claim Wildfire will be better than 360/PS3 Sonic because it's back to it's roots...thus meaning all speed. And for Sonic to be good it has to be all speed and nothing else.


Then a bunch of us say that they are ignoring many other things and that speed wasn't the only thing that made Sonic games for Genesis good. You had to take it slow in later levels because of tricky playforms and enemies yet it still had your heart skipping beats. It was fun and frantic even without speed. We think that if the game is crap, it doesn't matter how fast it is. Speed doesn't make up for bad gameplay.


I just wanted to see where you guys stand on this issue.
 
Speed adds the so-called "exitement-factor" to sonic games.

Personally, I think the sonic series are (or were) good because of the speed, as the game was boring if you took it slowly. Of course, it isn't the only factor, but an important one indeed.
 
I'll tell you what Sonic DOESN'T need.

It doesn't need a deep storyline or millions of characters.
It doesn't need characters that BURN UP IN THE ATMOSPHERE only to come back in the next game and then get a whole new game which brings me to another point--
Sonic doesn't need to make itself 'hardcore' by adding guns or motorcycles.

One of the things that makes the older Sonic games so much better than the claptrap Sonic team's been pushing out is that it told a story, but with no words, no speaking or anything like that. You progressed through the game and you knew what was going on. The 3D Sonics suffer from a lot of watching-sonic-run-through-loop-de-loops without being able to control him and they also suffer from a lot of bad stage design. The new 2D Sonics aren't much better off; it seems as though Sonic team doesn't remember what made the old ones so great.

Take Sonic Advance for one. It suffered from boring stage design and too many characters that had very few differences from one another. Sonic Advance 2 completly abstracted the concept of the game in an attempt to get back to Sonic's speedy 'roots', but the levels were again poorly designed. They made no sense. Also, in order to get the chaos emeralds, you had to sometimes stop running and go backwards in a stage to get the 7 special rings and THEN make it to the end of the stage. One thing you shouldn't have to do in a 2D Sonic game is BACKTRACK. In the original games, it seemed as though Sonic was trying to accomplish something with all this random running around, but Sonic Advance 2's presentation felt as though Sonic and his crew were just running around these places aimlessly, until they come across Robotnik. Robotnik seems equally as aimless, and the boss battles were banal and boring. Also, too many characters. Sonic Advance 3 attempted to add some innovation into the mix with it's partnership-based gameplay, and it was a pretty neat mechanic. The stage design was a little better, and the game made the characters seem useful.

I'd say that along with Speed, Sonic needs better stage design, fewer useless characters, fewer 'back from the grave' characters, fewer guns, fewer motorcycles, fewer idiotic storylines and more control over Sonic himself.
All you really need is Sonic, Tails and Knuckles, and there's enough playable characters.

Oh, and Big the Cat? Terrible idea. Worst. Character. Ever. I mean, what board meeting ended with Big the Cat's creation and approval? "Oh, I've got a great idea! Let's take this Sonic game we're making and force you to play the polar opposite of a Sonic game before you can fully finish it!" Yep. The polar opposite of running fast is being an obese cat, fishing. He's even slow witted to boot. Damn it, Sonic Team, get with the program!
 
I haven't played any Sonic games after the Genesis, none of them looked any good at all. And I relly hate what they've done with the franchise...I mean, what's the point of Shadow? Knuckles already had the "badass" role. Shadow seems to be cashing in on that with some extra angst.
 
You've done a good thing for yourself, Cortez. After the novelty of "OMG SONIC IN 3D LOL" wore off back in 1999, I was very dissapointed with Sonic Adventure. Even so, I played each one after that. After Sonic Adventure 2, things took a NOSEDIVE downhill. Sonic Heroes is so bad that I have to physically force my friend to play it when I'm at his house, and I only have him play it to laugh at him as he writhes with irritation, and also to laugh at how bad the voice acting is, among other things.

One thing, though; The Sonic games have managed to all have good soundtracks. Except for Shadow The Hedgehog, which had a rather bland soundtrack...
 
I liked them to, and I still do a little, but they didn't meet my expectations for the series, and that sort of made it worse. At least they aren't virtually unplayable like Heroes or Shadow...
 

Marcus

Sponsor

Sonic was cool because it was one of the first multi-tiered platformers and required quick reflexes and thinking. Anyone who says otherwise probably wasn't around when Sonic first came out (in my opinion atleast).

Anyone who grew up playing Sonic in the early 90s knew the difference between it and Mario. Mario games took place on one single stage; you ran from left to right and hopped on badguys. Sonic's levels had you actually changing direction, opening up new paths, triggering objects in the environment like switches and bumpers to launch you in new directions, and it also featured more than one path to complete a level; something that was almost completely unheard of in traditional platformers.

So yea, speed is just one factor; SKILL is the biggest. But I do agree with TheBlackMarket. Sonic was about simplicity and trying to tell some pretentious EPIC TALE is pretty much ANTI-SONIC. Even when other games like Mario would include a page long story in the front pages of its manual, Sonic's manual simply said "Dr. Robotnik turned all the animals into robots. Are you a bad enough hedgehog to rescue the animals???"
 

Rare

Member

The Sonic Adventure games on the Dreamcast were my favorite to play. Along with the Genesis versions of course.

Heres what the rest of them did to me:
-Hurt my eyes, litterally (All the colors in Sonic heros...man it hurts)
-Made me roll on the floor laughing at the voice acting (Anyone remember Sonic Shuffle?)
-Made me fall asleep while watching my little brother play it (He also says its crap and hes 5)


Man whats with games these days? =\
 
I've played and beaten all the most recent sonic games (bar Shadow the Hedgehog which was like death on a stick). I didn't play them because I liked them (although I didn't mind the GBA games so much), I played them because I thought some of the old Sonic magic might appear. Alas I was hopelessly wrong! I've played the very old Sonics too and like you've all said before, it's speed, and also the air mechanics that make Sonic a great game. The music is good too, Sonic Advance 2 music was great!
 

Marcus

Sponsor

i forgot about the music as the genesis sonics had one of the best internal synthesizer soundtracks. they really pushed the sega's excellent soundchip to the max.
 
It's sad that Soni 3 locked on to Sonic & Knuckles was probably as good as it gets in the Sonic Universe. I agree with EVERYTHING TBM said in his first post... which means I have really nothing else to say. I miss the old days where you had a choice of only Sonic, Tails, or Knuckles. Now with the 10 other characters, it seems that the main chars (mainly Tails and Knuckles I've noticed) have been downsized.... I mean WHY HAVEN'T HYPER KNUCKLES AND SUPER TAILS REAPPEARED SINCE STH3+S&K?! Whew. Ok. I'm done.
 
Black market, I love you(not really, but I completely agree with you).

However, I must say that I liked Sonic Rush. Very fast paced while keeping up with classic platforming.
 
I'll say I enjoyed all the Sonics up to S&K. Sonic Adventure's was awesome but I felt they ruined Knuckles whom I thought was a great addition in the game S&K but in this one you just make him dig? No thanks. In Sonics scenario though I believe they did it perfect. It had all the speed I needed in my opinion as well as some nice stages and boss fights. I still remember running from that giant whale on the beach stage. And Super Sonic @.@

Sonic Rush was ok cept they always put enemies in the most anoying spots where they'll hit you not matter what. And Blaze just wasn't fast enough at all.

I wish I could play the one or was it two Sonic games that came out fo the Sega CD.
 
Ugh....I grew tired of Sonic. Very much so.

It was fun for a little while I suppose. Repetitive, but fun in a way. A very small way. The music's usually good; thank god. That's the best part about the game.

And then...then they had to go and Urban/50-Cent it up. Guns? What the hell's up with that. That's not going add to the fun. Not in a game like that.

But yeah, I suppose the speed is what made the series so great.
 
I completely agree with you TBM. The way the story was told in the old sonic games was far better than they do it now, throwing all this new characters in. And now another Hedgehog? Wasn't Shadow enough? I liked Sonic's Adventure 1 and 2, but for me it wasn't the Sonic I knew, it was a completely new game featuring the same characters.
 
Right I have one problem with sonic lately..
We all know Shadow was a horribly crafted pile of dung-right?
well how come that the Next gen sonic looks like a carbon copy?
yeah it has SOME good graphics but all in all its the same game!!
HUH HUH????
 
@Slasha
Well, Super Tails was sort of lame... Hyper Knuckles, I miss, however. Also, I miss being able to play as Super Sonic whenever I collected 100 rings, instead of this OMG END OF THE WORLD SUPAH SONIC GOOO crap. Ah, well.

@Fafnir
I forgot all about Rush. That game's soundtrack confused and frightened me.

@Mercutio
Only one game on the Sega CD, and YES, it is fantastic. It also had one of the best soundtracks, if you get the European or Japanese version. The American version... not so much.

Something Awful summed up what I thought of the characters in its usual rude manner...
It’s hard to believe that anyone can still be a Sonic the Hedgehog fan, as Sega adds a new shitty playable character to the universe every time an unborn child is aborted in America (these acts are unrelated, but the numbers are identical). If you don’t believe me, then you obviously haven’t played Sonic Air Divers featuring Shove the Beatle and Jerry the Philanthropist Shovel. Sega’s theory is, if you can slap giant eyes on something and paint it garish colors, people will want to play as this character and draw fanart of it being violated with power tools. The latter activity is popular amongst 80% of the Sonic fanbase, their efforts providing at least half of the results for any attempt to make a Google Image Search.
 
OK...Genesis was my first console. Sonic 2 was my first game. So don't go saying I never grew up with Sonic.


You guys should really not ding Shadow THAT much. It was a spin off. Noone should have expected a REAL Sonic game. Besides it had collecting missions that were not crap like Adventure 2 and heroes. That has to count for something.


Genesis 2D Sonic titles were fun even when going slow. New 2D Sonics are repetetive. They add speed just to mask it. Once you get used to the speed it isn't fun any more.



Honestly I think THIS is what they need for a good 3D Sonic:




1) When Sonic jumps when he runs he should go more than 3 feet and when he lands he shouldn't start off slow again
2) Sonic, Tails, Knux and maybe Shadow and Espio for playable characters although Shadow does make a good mid boss
3) I like the Super idea where it isn't just a final boss thing
4) many many levels for each character (like 30 for each)
5) NO FREAKING GLITCHES
6) it should be frantic even at a slow pace. Shadow's game had that. Granted it wasn't the best Sonic game but at least it got that right.
 

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