Interested in improving . . .

[Alexander Morou]

Greetings,

In the past, I used to post at a different gaming website about a script I was writing, targeted towards being a comic in the end.  The end result of posting it for criticism ended up making it a long running joke (at my expense), that carries on even today.  I'm interested in writing because it's the base for any game, or any visual/mental fantasy of any kind.  Because of my interest, and their moderative vacancy, I was asked to be a moderator of the other forum's board on writing.  Since I had little experience, I asked the previous moderator for advice, which he gave, and he ended up sending the entire private message series onto another person, and he decided that because he didn't think I was cut out for the job, he'd drive me out, and so he did, even to the point of bringing up the 'bad' story for further amusement, even citing me as the worst writer of that forum: ever.

The above incident kind of hampered my interest towards writing in general, and I've done no writing since (since May-ish this year, around when I joined this community).  The website still carries the joke on in its own way, with one of the community staff as one of the folks who started it all.  So the reason I'm here today is to find a way to get back into writing.

I'll be honest, my writing tends to be dry, and very hard to get through without causing the reader to yawn.  I think this goes back to my primary source material: I'm a programmer, most of what I read is technical, so my writing tends to be that way.  I've been told the ideas I have are interesting, I just don't know how to properly show the user the reality I've envisioned, I have a tendency to tell them everything (through boring detail overload).  Anyone who knows anything about writing will say this is bad, very very bad.

Another thing that irked the writers of the other website: I like anime, and they feel as if anything related to anime is bad.  Even though I informed them that the story had a lot of anime-related jokes, they saw this as an excuse.  How do you write something with source material and get proper feedback if the audience you presented it before doesn't like the material it's based off of (note: not a fanfic)?  I think that tells me they saw it as a failure before even reading it, but that's besides the point.  I'll definitely admit, I'm not the best writer, and my tendency to tell vs. show will definitely be a wall to overcome.

So my primary question today is: what are my options?  I'm not willing to just say I'll never write again because some website says I suck.  I may not be a good writer, but that can change, as people often do.

 

[Surmuck]

People are generally assholes on the internet. Don't let it discourage you from writing, otherwise I would have quit while I was ahead (like 4 years ago XD)

I'm a programmer, most of what I read is technical

Don't you find something magical in programming? Putting together lines upon lines of characters - to create something that works in perfect harmony? Write about the things you know, and if programming is something you know - think about it abstractly and write about it.

related to anime is bad.

Unfortunatley, the script for most anime is really cheesy, and corny. Use anime as an inspiration, I know lots of anime movies n' stuff that are just wells of inspiration, regardless of how well their written. I won't tell you to use them as a point of reference, but do USE them. On the topic of basing stories off of shows/movies, the key word is base. Go back like three pages and read 'A non-canon bleach fan-fic'.
This is an example of what not to do! Add your own voice to anything that's based off something else; it makes it unique, and die hard haters/fans won't ridicule you for something that sound so different it could be original, when it's not.

I'm not the best writer,

That's the best outlook to have. The people who think their the best, usually turn out to be the worst. Plus, people who know their not the best take criticism much better. I love to hear people say their not the best.

what are my options?

I tried for a long time to answer this question; and in the end all I can say is try to make time to write. Create time where you can force yourself back into the habit, doodle out tiny poems. Daydream as often as possible, come up with crazy scenarios. Ask yourself silly questions when everyone is serious.
The writer will find you, maybe you don't have to find the writer.

-Surmuck
Apologies for being cryptic due.

 

[Surmuck]

Double postin's

Keep in mind that I have an open door policy on editing. If you PM me anything you'd like to have given a good once-twice-thrice over because you don't feel comfortable posting it in public, feel free to do so. That goes for everyone, if you look at my edits - I pick things apart.

Don't be afraid to accept critique, it's the best way to become a better writer IMO.

 

[creamdonut]

Well, you have a lot of options. But first of all, let me please tell you about my experience with the "Son of Odin" by João Zurarte Reis Piedade, a portuguese book that has left it's mark on me for the eternity. The book was published on the Young Talents Collection, and for some reason, I got the feeling this dude was no talent. Here's why.
The book starts with the aknowledgements. In that, he gave thanks to his parents and family, so that's ok. Then, it gets bad: he gives thanks to bands such as Linkin Park and Manowar as well as Evanescence. This is not the worse though, since he eventually thanks the games Lord of the Rings (instead of J.R.R. Tolkien for, well, inventing Middle Earth?) and Age of Mythology (to name a few) and movies such as Blade II and Van Helsing.
I told this just for you to get an idea of what I'm coming to. The book starts out with a boy who has a dream where Odin says he is his son (wtf?) and that he must follow him. Well, the book then follow the kid's journey, where he faces dragons, goblins, werewolves, and has a companion, a chick, and between them all these stupid, awkward and anime-like jokes and situations happen, and they face friendly orcs (anti-cliché anyone?) and they meet Dracula who is the main villain, and Van Helsing, who is out there to get him, and, and.... Well that's it. The book can be summed up to two words: complete and utterless piece of shit! (sorry, it's five words). But yeah. That's what a story musn't be.

Now, this book is a collage on clichés and anti-chichés. This is not a book. It was published because the guys mother is a journalist and his father is an ultra-boss of Mercedez in Germany. A story must have it's own identity, not be a story "where you want the good guy to have a big sword, kill a lotta monsters, save the girl, save the planet and kill the sexy badguy with long hair". I'm being extreme here, but you get the point.

So how do you make a story that actually has it's own identity? First of all, forget about the cliché rule. It's not a rule, it's a convention. What matters is if the story flows well, and it's a nice one. You don't have to go with the "gay hero, just because it's not cliché" or with the "young hero, because... I want to". For this part, I'd have to write about 10 long paragraphs for which I have no time. Instead, make a story that you feel that fits what you're trying to get. Be moderate about the jokes. But I mean, really moderate. When writing, try your very freakin' best to be visual. Give a good description of a room without showing everything. Make the story center itself in the characters themselves, not beyond that scope. If you say "they're in a dwarvish mine, the light from the wizard's staff let's them behold the magnificently carved columns" is evocative enough, without having to talk about the actual patterns of the columns or how is the ceiling or anything like that. Try to focus on objects the characters would focus on, either because they're grabing them or looking at them, whatever. Also, bear in mind what might be important for them to look at: if you happen to have a very curious character, say that "he's looking around". With this in mind, don't let go details that might be important further into the story. Even if they seem out of place, you can find a niche for them. And for not letting these pass as obvious from the point that every "out of the place stuff" matters, be a little more inventive with other parts. The story can have things that won't be relevant to the main plot as well, and actually should: you don't want the readers to be able to predict the end. However, you don not flow your story with those sidestories. Finally, if you could divide your story into 5 images, the 4th should always be the climax. The images are meant to be the high points of the story, not necesserily with 4h hours distance between them.

And those are some guidelines that (I hope) can help you. If you have a more specific question, I can try to answer as well. So, well, this is my two cents. :thumb:

PS: while writing this, I see Surmuck has given his two cents. That makes four. Although I would say to post here your doubts, because they might be someone else's as well. And I do like this topic very much.

 

[Surmuck]

You don't have to go with the "gay hero, just because it's not cliché" or with the "young hero, because... I want to".

Your view on clichés gives me hope in the world, mostly because your completely right and I'm glad you pointed that out.

Post here more often, mkay? :D

try your very freakin' best

That's all I expect from anyone in writing. Luckily, I also have a very keen eye for when I can tell someone hasn't tried their very freakin' best in everything.

Try to focus on objects the characters would focus on

Another thing that people need to try harder to grasp. English teachers have taught people wrong here in pushing to give more detail to a point people are giving details on things that don't matter, and the flow is lost.

I agree with your post, and am sorry mine couldn't be more productive D:

-Surmie

 

[creamdonut]

I agree with your post, and am sorry mine couldn't be more productive D:

Well, you did make really nice points on your post. I definitely liked your tips, you could sum up pretty much from what I wrote. But yeah, I do have to write here more often...  :cheers:

 

[e]

There's nothing magical in programming; you shouldn't believe movies with Julia Stiles in it to teach you anything about it ("WE'RE HACKING THE INTERNET!!!! BRING DOWN THE SERVERS!!!!")

Either way, the only way to improve is to read, read, read, and write...then read some more. I learned more by reading than I did by brute force (i.e.: writing hours on end).

Oh, and I don't mean read-while-sipping-a-martini-in-a-pool-full-of-sexy-ladies, I mean more of a serious read, where you try to spy (with your little eye, might I add, except I wouldn't darOWAIT) the diverse literary devices used by the writer. I suggest seventh century writers as a start, i.e.: Gulliver's Travel, which is pretty easy to understand as far as I'm concerned in terms of literary artifices.

Of course an actual Literature course is probably the best way to do so, provided they're of some quality.

 

[Venetia]

I actually didn't learn jack doodly from reading, not really, if anything, all it did was fill my head with phrases that I, later, couldn't figure out whether or not they were my own concept, or someone else's D:

Best advice I can give is to take some creative writing classes. There are lots of them you can sit in on at universities. You don't have to pay for the class unless you want the credits. There are also online exercise programs you can follow. That's really the key, just like drawing or music, learning through exercise and applying it in ways you wouldn't normally on your own, to "open your mind".

As you can see, judging from the 1st sentence there, I myself am long overdue for one D:

 

[Surmuck]

Best advice I can give is to take some creative writing classes

Has anyone had a good experience with creative writing classes? I took two, and they both turned out to be really shitty and if anything set my writing back.

 

[e]

I took two and haven't really noticed any improvement at all. =/

 

[creamdonut]

I never found those online lessons interesting, because mainly you can't discuss a text face to face. I believe that is the most essential thing, because you should have the ability to see the other people's reaction, and also in the computer, especially in forums, comments might be a little too shallow and sparse. Also, when you write a story, try not to read books. Why? Because it will eventually influence your storytelling, and the way you wrote the beginning will end to be different from what you wrote in the end.

 

[Venetia]

Best advice I can give is to take some creative writing classes

Has anyone had a good experience with creative writing classes? I took two, and they both turned out to be really shitty and if anything set my writing back.

Well you can't go to the ones where they tell you to keep a journal of your musings and stupid bullshit like that. I'm talking about ones that delve into the properties of the literary greats, uses of devices, styles, perspectives, etc.

But to each their own

 

[Alexander Morou]

Well Surmuck was nice enough to scan a story I'm writing and give comments on it.  It was twenty pages long and he had fifty points of interest/criticism to note.  He said he liked the look of the first page, but I think that's about where the pleasantries stopped ;]

I'll review the document and make the necessary changes, and post it for people here to read (both versions, pre-edit and post-edit).  I was afraid I'd be quickly labeled 'worst' again, so I requested him read it before posting it publicly. 

Thanks to Surmuck for his time and effort.  He's quick and concise.  Here's hoping I can improve.

 

[e]

Best advice I can give is to take some creative writing classes

Has anyone had a good experience with creative writing classes? I took two, and they both turned out to be really shitty and if anything set my writing back.

Well you can't go to the ones where they tell you to keep a journal of your musings and stupid bullshit like that. I'm talking about ones that delve into the properties of the literary greats, uses of devices, styles, perspectives, etc.

But to each their own

That's what I said, except I learn these from READING before applying them to writing, whereas you skip the reading part. Scholar Jones would be most disappointed

But yeah, to each their own?

 

[Surmuck]

Thanks to Surmuck for his time and effort.  He's quick and concise.  Here's hoping I can improve.

I said 'good' to a few sentences I like, I know I did D': don't everyone think I was mean.

Anywho, your very welcome; and I enjoyed the piece overall!

 

[Alexander Morou]

Here's an excerpt of the document:

Spoiler: First three pages.

    When I woke I remember smelling the sweet nectar of flowers.  I opened my eyes and was surprised to find them all around me.  I was in a large bright room with tall windows behind me; it was peacefully quiet.  The bed and sheets were opulent, soft, and smooth.  The only thing I could barely hear were the pings of the machine, to my right, monitoring me.   I felt placid and at ease; little did I know this feeling of calmness and relaxation was naught but a guise to something more.  Sometimes, even now, I wish the feeling of tranquility wasn’t a ruse.
    An especially beautiful blue rose caught my eye.  It was sitting in a vase by itself at the other end of the room.  I thought that if it looked as it did from a distance, it would look even better up close.  I wanted to hold it in my hand and see for myself what was so alluring about it.  I moved towards the right side of the bed and instinctively reached out to my side to brace my weight on the machine.  I wasn’t looking, and didn’t notice, but my hand never reached the machine and, instead of lifting myself up, I had a nice tumble down towards the ground.
    As I stirred awake, again, I thought that perhaps my fall was a dream; however, my head started throbbing as I came to.  The same sweet flowery smell was there, but then I was awarded with a soothing humming tone.  It was a woman’s voice, and as I woke further I felt her right hand was rubbing my stomach, her left was under my head.  I opened my eyes, and the first thing my gaze met with was her smiling face.  “Good morning; how’s your head?â€