ID Cards: Useful, or the beginning of a 1984 state?

[Ellie]

Just about every person I've spoke to is opposed to forced ID cards.

The UK government plans to issue every citizen with an ID card. This will be a universal card that will prove who you are, etc. It will coincide with a national identity database, which will allow the government to keep track of all your details - passport number, photograph, driving license number, the car you drive, data from the DVLA, data from various registers, and so on.

I personally see this as a BRILLIANT idea.

I want to see what other people think before I offer my thoughts on the matter though.

Some information:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentc ... E=id_cards

While the article above pertains to an opt-in service, the plan is for everybody in the country to have an ID card (much like you currently need a National Insurance card to get a job).

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Glitchfinder]

I hope you realize that most of what you just said is standard practice in the USA? Specifically, every state does almost the exact same thing, with the only real variations being what the ID card looks like, the layout of the ID code itself (usually determined based on population), and other details like the formula for a license plate number. (Which isn't actually a number in most states)

Not to mention the fact that, in the states, if you are an adult, and can provide neither an ID or Driver's License when asked by an officer of the law, you can and will be taken to the nearest station until they can verify your identity. (Also note that, unless you're actually doing something wrong, or at least appear to be, they won't ask you for that info in most cases)

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Ulqiorra]

I don't really understand why anyone would think it was unfair to do something like this. It's actually very helpful in you think about it real hard. I think Arbi's already kinda said my thoughts for me, but still, this is a good idea and anyone opposed to it hasn't really thought it through.

 

[Incognitus]

It isn't the ID card thing that's the main problem: It's the database and the *shared register* which is the issue.

The government wishes to connect this database with various others creating one large metadatabase which can collate vast amounts of information on a person: this is illegal in most countries - except places like China or North Korea obviously.

The government are trying to create something we have to use in every transaction with the state - it's ridiculous. We already have NI numbers and, uh, names.

Furthermore, the government claims that it won't be selling the data to businesses (or will ever - and their word is obviously reliable; it's not like the state are committed and unrelenting liars or anything!) instead what they plan to do is even worse: government bean-counters will correlate the data and release "Public Interest" dossiers... which large businesses can take advantage of for free! Utter madness.

It's costly, high maintenance and won't solve any the problems it is billed as addressing.

So the answer is clearly, "Dear god no".

 

[Ellie]

All I know is my student loan is going to come through late.

Why?

Because all my bits and pieces are in different registers, databases, files, etc. Which means everything takes time. I had to send by Birth certificate and drivers license, for example. Parents had to send their records of employment. And so on. The government should already have known all of these things.

I would rather sacrifice my freedom (though I don't see what freedoms are being sacrificed here) than have to take out an additional loan / overdraft while waiting for student loans to come through just because I need to prove I am me.

 

[Incognitus]

I would rather sacrifice my freedom (though I don't see what freedoms are being sacrificed here) than have to take out an additional loan / overdraft while waiting for student loans to come through just because I need to prove I am me.

Good luck with that, and of course, you're fully entitled to take part so long as you don't expect me to take part either. I value my individual sovereignty quite highly.

Or pay for it with my taxes. It's running to about £400 per head at the moment, isn't it? You could pay out of your student loan!

 

[Ellie]

When you say "I value my individual sovereignty", what freedoms are being lost here? What exactly is the negative aspect?

 

[Incognitus]

When you say "I value my individual sovereignty", what freedoms are being lost here? What exactly is the negative aspect?

My right to privacy of information. My right to decide whether I want to hand my elected representatives, and unelected civil servants the ability to access every detail about my life with a click.

Please don't forget to include the following in your reply:

Your full name, address, phone number, bank statement, medical history, list of places you've visited in the last six months, names of videos you have rented and your shopping lists - and then the same information for your immediate family.

Because that's what's going to be collated in the meta-database eventually: check the small print:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... tml#j006AB (Section 18)

When private companies are allowed to register information such as your card number, there's nothing stopping them from collating data of their own.

 

[Glitchfinder]

When you say "I value my individual sovereignty", what freedoms are being lost here? What exactly is the negative aspect?

My right to privacy of information. My right to decide whether I want to hand my elected representatives, and unelected civil servants the ability to access every detail about my life with a click.

Please don't forget to include the following in your reply:

Your full name, address, phone number, bank statement, medical history, list of places you've visited in the last six months, names of videos you have rented and your shopping lists - and then the same information for your immediate family.

Because that's what's going to be collated in the meta-database eventually: check the small print:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... tml#j006AB (Section 18)

When private companies are allowed to register information such as your card number, there's nothing stopping them from collating data of their own.

You know, being this paranoid, I assume you never, ever use a search engine, correct? Because, otherwise, you would be sacrificing personal information such as IP address (showing ISP, location and more), time of access, apparent interests, and more to every single search engine you use. They all log every search, as well as pretty much every bit of related information they can get their hands on. In fact, Google has already handed that kind of information over to the government in several places, the most notable being china, where some of those who searched using forbidden terms ended up in prison or dead because Google caved to the government there.

 

[Velocir_X]

Proxy my friend proxy

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Incognitus]

You're all mad. "The fact is" I prefer giving out as little information as possible.

I choose to use an ISP - in fact I get to choose which ISP I want to use and pay for their service; if I don't like it, I can change, abandon it's use, or if they breach the terms of their contract as far as my privacy is concerned, I can take them to court.
When I use Google, I'm using it of my own free will: what I type in there goes in there of my own free will. Again, I can use another search engine if I want.
The state isn't forcing me, just as they aren't forcing me to use the internet. There is no comparison.

The database is costly, insecure, and won't do anything to cut down on what is being targeted. It's a multimillion white elephant whose cost is set to grow.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to pay over £300 to make it "easier" for Wyatt to get her student loan, and at the expense of the principle of my individual sovereignty.

 

[Ellie]

If nobody did things just because it would cost money then nothing would ever get done.

And you are forced in those cases. You want to use the Internet? Then you've got to use an ISP, and you've got to use a web browser. While you can pick and choose which ISP and browser, there are only a few to choose from and you have to use one of them. (And while you aren't forced to use the Internet, you are also not forced to live in Britain).

What I want to know is, what information could you possibly have that the Government want access to, that you wouldn't be willing to give? And, furthermore, why?

I would be more than happy to provide the school I went to, home address, drivers license no., education, job history, passport number, etc. I don't see what the (apparently untrustworthy) government is going to do with them that is so bad.

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Ulqiorra]

Well, this just combines data from a lot of different databases, right? So the government can already access this information and do what they will it, right?
So all this really does is puts all the info in these databases in one place. What exactly is so terrible about that?

@arbie: Congratulations on admin.

 

[So fist]

If it can make identity theft a much harder crime to commit then £300 may be a worthy investment. In the US identity theft causes several billions in damage to the economy each year, and recently two researchers at Carnegie-Mellon found that you can predict accurately a person's Social Security number if you know the date and place of birth of any given individual. That's right SSN's had been assigned chronologically since inception, but it was also never intended to be used as a national id number as we have been using it today. Ever since the researchers went public with their findings the SSN board announced they have taken the policy to randomize SSN's from here on out. But the fact remains that with the realities of today's information age identity verification and credit fraud prevention is a harder game than it has been before.

Also what information would this make you have to divulge that the government doesn't actually already have albeit in some other database like the registry of motor vehicles or the property tax assessment office? I think the real issue is, will it be more secure than things currently are? Or are you getting less bang for your buck?

 

[Velocir_X]

Thank goodness I'm not born in America...

But anyway from what I have read it seems as though you brits will have all your information compiled into a public records database...
If you want individual sovereignty that is not the way to go >.<