I need critisism badly please!!

[Lost_in_Exsistance]

hi there, im at a part of my game and im drawing my own pictures for the dialog in my game, mainly just as a background, and right now im trying to draw a sort of library, and im trying to get this as perfect as possible and to somewhat come up with "my style." ok i have three pictures scanned right now, the first is the main picture, "the library", the second is some books and the different angles of them, and finally the third is a few items that i want to place on the shelves, like as artifacts or something inside of the glass case on the right front bookshelf. also, im not to sure how to make it actually look like there is a glass door on the front of that shelf, so any help with that would be extremely appreciated.
i need this done very very soon so i hope you guys comment here fast.

Spoiler: Library

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4826/bookshelf1kz5.png[/img]

Spoiler: Books

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7175/bookshelf2ie4.png[/img]

Spoiler: Artifacts

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/1815/bookshelf3ae9.png[/img]

the reason for the books and artifacts being separate is that once the library picture is perfect im going to scan them again and use photoshop and copy and paste the books and artifacts into the shelves. and also i will use photoshop to color them all too, well i'll try it, might need someone to help me with the coloring.

thanks.

 

[meian]

In the library scene, there's lot of lines that ought to be parallel but have slightly different angles. I think you could get away with most of the bookcases, but the front left one needs to be reworked so as not to make it obvious.

The bookshelf bothers me, but I can't exactly say why. I think maybe the shelf with the books is too short for the perspective you're going for, but I don't know if that's exactly it.

The jar in the third one is not symmetrical - one side of the bottle's more angular than the other, say. It might not be a big thing, but personally, I'd just take half of the image (the right side looks better, IMHO), flip it, then correct the shading as needed.  The bookshelves are not parallel in the glass case, either; the lower bookshelf slopes noticeably to the left. Also, the shadow of the bottle would change when it hits the different plane of the back, versus the horizontal slope.

Since you're shading in Photoshop, to make a glass cabinet front, put a low opacity blue or grey in front of the objects. Maybe three or four parallel diagonal lines as well for that cartoony-glass effect - I think you already did that in the library image, right? - but the color mask should be enough, too. Be sure to include handles or something so someone can get inside the glass. I tend to see that forgotten a lot.


Certainly, though, these are looking like they'd shape up to be handsome backgrounds in-game once they're finished. :3

 

[Lost_in_Exsistance]

thank you for the quick response, lol im actually working on it right now, hahahaha i was making a big deal about the handle on the glass shelf, i actually did have one on there before, but im not very good at drawing that, and i asked a friend and he told me that i should just get rid of the handle and we were discussing that for quite some time lol, so thank you for bringing that up, but could you possibly show me how to draw a handle for it, i tried to look around my house and i some how dont have any glass cabinets with handles, all of um in my house have those magnets that you push in and the doors pop out if you know what i mean.
i actually made the left side farther back on purpose... i thought it would give it some extra effect, that way it's not just exactly the same on both sides i wanted to make it look like i really did draw both sides instead of just drawing half and flipping it to make the left side. but if you really think it should be even i'll redo that side.
I never realized that some of the straight lines were slightly angled, thanks for pointing that out, i'm working on that right now. I'm also working on that vase, but the shadow, i have a question about that, the shelf goes back on an angle so i draw the shadow on an angle right? but when the shadow gets to the back of the shelf, do i go straight up, or continue going on an angle like i did in the picture above?
do you have any pointers on how to make all the lines perfectly parallel? it's really hard to get them all like that, although, maybe i'll try doing this on photoshop or paint, do you think the drawing would look better or a paint version of it?
I wont be able to make the artifacts or books in paint or photoshop though, cause im not THAT great with them so i would draw those.. what do you think. I'm kinda leaning more towards just drawing it since it'll give it my little home-made touch lol.

thanks.

 

[meian]

thank you for the quick response, lol im actually working on it right now, hahahaha i was making a big deal about the handle on the glass shelf, i actually did have one on there before, but im not very good at drawing that, and i asked a friend and he told me that i should just get rid of the handle and we were discussing that for quite some time lol, so thank you for bringing that up, but could you possibly show me how to draw a handle for it, i tried to look around my house and i some how dont have any glass cabinets with handles, all of um in my house have those magnets that you push in and the doors pop out if you know what i mean.

Never owned a glass cabinet door myself. I was going to draw something up, then I found myself searching for references, then decided maybe it'd be easier to skip the middle man and just post the references :P :

http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&h ... rch+Images

Most of the ones I'm looking at, however, have a handle attached to a wooden frame that surrounds the glass, so I guess that'd require a little bit of an edit to your original design. Though, I'm sure I've seen handles drilled directly into glass panels. However, those tend to be more of a modern design, so I don't know if that's what you're going for or not.

i actually made the left side farther back on purpose... i thought it would give it some extra effect, that way it's not just exactly the same on both sides i wanted to make it look like i really did draw both sides instead of just drawing half and flipping it to make the left side. but if you really think it should be even i'll redo that side.

I think the objects are close enough to not warrant such perspective. The left side is one, two feet further back than the front right cabinet, and the right side looks just fine.

Also, it doesn't look flipped to me. There's enough differences that I'd never think of the image being flipped unless someone brought it up to me. Even though, it wouldn't look it.

I'm also working on that vase, but the shadow, i have a question about that, the shelf goes back on an angle so i draw the shadow on an angle right? but when the shadow gets to the back of the shelf, do i go straight up, or continue going on an angle like i did in the picture above?

Not exactly sure what you mean, but I think I do. I hope I explain it correctly.

Yes, the angle would change. The horizonatal plane would follow the light source more obviously, but when it hits the back shelf, the vertical plane, it would change angles.

I'm really more of a visual person, and a show-don't-tell character by trade, so I barfed up a badly drawn image to illustrate.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p130 ... hadows.png[/img]

do you have any pointers on how to make all the lines perfectly parallel? it's really hard to get them all like that, although, maybe i'll try doing this on photoshop or paint, do you think the drawing would look better or a paint version of it?

I like to draw the human figure almost exclusively, so I don't have much experience with having to make parallel lines. Though, what I would do is either use vector-y tools (which I'm no good at, so I can't help you too much more than that), the drawn-line tools in your graphics editing programs (I think even Paint has this) OR, the thing I'd probably end up doing, is copying and pasting identical lines - draw one line, then copy it, paste it, and edit it as necessary.

But maybe somebody better at backgrounds can provide a more efficient solution. :P

I wont be able to make the artifacts or books in paint or photoshop though, cause im not THAT great with them so i would draw those.. what do you think. I'm kinda leaning more towards just drawing it since it'll give it my little home-made touch lol.

Hey, whatever you're more comfortable with, right? And it's really the end result that matters, however you get there is irrelevant.

thanks.

No sweat! I hope I helped more than I rambled.

 

[Lost_in_Exsistance]

hey, i decided i'm gonna stick with just hand-drawing it, i redid THE WHOLE library lol, everything is completely parallel to each other, i found some drawing tools i used a couple years back.. haha a nice see threw ruler and a triangle and a compass so i found an angle drew some squares lol and some circles and then in the end i came up with a new library and here it is,

Spoiler: NEW LIBRARY

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2615/newlibrary1we1.png[/img]

let me know what you think.

OH and thank you for that example of the shadow haha, im more of a visual type person also, im no good at explaining things, so i show as many examples as i can lol.

I never thought of adding extra wood for the glass doors, maybe i'll try that, for right now, if you look at my new library picture i added those little magnet things that i mentioned are on my glass cabinets in my house lol.
dont know if it looks right, but i dont think it looks all that bad, but really, the time zone in my game is around the year 507 A.D. lol, so i dont know if magnets are gonna be very good hahahaha.. or even glass for that matter... hummm never thought about that..
sorry, rambling on... talking to myself.. haha

well let me know what you think of it.. i'll be around haha.

*EDIT* YAY!!! i've never photoshoped in anything like this before, so i got bored and i thought hey, i'll try throwing some books and stuff in my new library, it look so much better than i thought it would. here you take a look and let me know what you think about this too!!!

Spoiler: Library with Books and Artifacts!!!

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4813/librarywithbooksih4.png[/img]

 

[meian]

The library looks a lot better, IMHO. And the shopped books look nice, but just remember to change the title/shape/color/whatever of the spines so they're not obviously the same book. If they're all blank, it could fly, but if they all have the same title, it's quite glaring.

But a couple of things about it being 507AD:

Even through the Renaissance, glass was a status symbol - you'd have glass windows to show your neighbors how wealthy and powerful you were, not for any of its practical uses (though it certainly came as an aside). Most people, the vast majority, went without windows or just had holes-n-shutters in their walls. Glass inside a house would be pretty unimaginable, I'd reckon. So, if it were me, I'd throw glass cabinets right out the window. ... horrible pun intended. :P

Also, Gutenberg didn't invent the printing press until 1440, so a big ol' library like that seems a millennium too early.

If this is a sword-n-sorcery game, a lot can be forgiven. I mean, there's fireballs and dragons and super-dimensional sorcerers, so as far as worldly accuracy goes, who cares about a stack of bound books, right? And I doubt most people would even pick up on such things. But, for ME, it'd be a big waving flag. Just putting it out there.

 

[Lost_in_Exsistance]

hahaha, yeah, well i'll throw them windows out lol but, even though the printing press wasn't invented until the next millenium there were still books right? they were all handwritten, and probably not nearly as long as they look in my picture but yes there are lots of magic and such things in my game, in fact thats the whole reason its set back in the year 507AD, cause a monster used his magic to teleport the main guy back 1500 years, the year changes a couple times throughout the game, but at any rate, i wouldn't go as far as to say that the library will be much bigger than those two rows of shelves anyway, and it's going to be in the largest city in that year, so i would imagine that there should be at least that many, hand-written books, plus i want to put a bunch of object and rare treasures and stuff on some shelves, as you can see. lol

oh and dont worry, i'm not gonna use the same book for every book in there, i actually thought it would be pretty cool if not one book was the same, if you look back to my very first post on the picture with the books, i started a list of names for books, trying to keep it simple one to two words at most, small words though. also as you can see on that picture i want to try and make some books interactive, like if you walk over and push enter on the book that says "Magic" then it would slide out and open and then a new screen would come up and it would show you all the magics that you have seen and learned throughout the game, and a few other books like that too, lol.

also, do you think i should kinda lol mess up some of the shelves a bit, seeing as though its the year 507, i dont know if they would have perfectly flat wood shelves like that.. but then again, i really dont know how to really do that... any help lol??

thanks for helping me with this though!!!

 

[ultimaodin]

It's not bad but the issue with photoshopping books in is perspective. See how the shelves run in an angled perspective, well the books should do the same. Instead their perspective is way out! Also the little key ring looks like it points upward rather than being flat. Try not to have a perfect circle hole!

Also libraries tend to be kept clean, especially in that era when texts was so important!

Not to bad though! :smile:

 

[meian]

Yeah, the first hardbound books were found in an Egyptian tomb, I believe.

Well, as long as this is sort of an important library, it should be fine then, no problem. Something I thought of, though - you asked how books were kept in ye olde ages. The only thing I could really think of was that the most common kind of book then (and still now, I suppose), was the Bible, where it was usually kept on a pedastool for monk's use in the backs of churches. Not like anyone else could read 'em, anyways.

Well, that kind of got me thinking. If you need the library only for certain important magical books, why not skip the bookshelves with books merely for background scenery and have only these important books up on their stands? Might save you a lot of time and drive home the fact that this is not a common library and that these are not common books.

 

[Lost_in_Exsistance]

@Ultimaodin - thanks, i just saw what you mean with the whole perspective of the books, i drew those books for my older version of the library so i guess i'd have to re-draw them to match the newer version.
haha i didnt really think the key looked like it was standing up on its side until you mentioned something about it lol. thanks, working on that too.
thanks for the tips though!

@meian - i suppose a pedestal shouldnt be all that hard to draw, i'll try your idea, do you think i should completely scrap the bookshelves or should i kind of push the shelves back farther and add the pedestals in the foreground?
meh, if you can picture what i mean.. but if you cant, then i'm gonna go draw up a sketch. you're not online right now so maybe you wont even read this before i finish the drawing.
thanks.


*HUGE EDIT* please look here NOW lol
i decided to finish the entire library a little while ago, and here it is, it's three pictures long, so we'll see how well this works on here, i put them all together.

and YES lol i know some of the shelves dont completely match up, but i thought it was extremely close and when you play the game its not going to be put together like this, it'll switch to the next picture when you move to the side of one picture, so i dont really see that the pictures matching up THAT perfectly to be all that important.
Two things I did notice after i uploaded though, in the middle picture, on the bottom of the wall in the back, i dont have the base-board on there, i did draw it on there but i just didnt scan the picture again, but cause i didnt remember that i forgot it until i put these together, so just so you know, i did draw it lol, and the second thing, is that i was wondering how to make the walls look less plain and boring.. so i added some posters/ paper things on the walls, but i realized i dont have any windows anywhere in my library, so i will add at least one window on the left wall.
also, i'm not going to have that glass on the shelf, i just made the third picture have the glass in there just to show that it matches up, i'm gonna get rid of it in a little bit, lol my hands are tired right now..

on the left side you'll notice that it's pretty much empty, well i decided i was gonna stick with the bookshelves but im also going to add the pedestals, they will go on the left side. i'm going to draw them separately like the books, so i can photoshop them in, that way everything i add to my library isn't permanent.

let me know what you think.

Spoiler: ENTIRE LIBRARY

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7065/wholelibraryvz3.png[/img]

HAHA AWSOME it worked, just like i wanted, with the scroll bar, make sure you scroll all the way over through all three pictures, and let me know what you guys think.

CAN SOMEONE SHOW ME HOW TO DRAW A PEDESTAL AND A DOOR NOB LOL!!!
thanks.

 

[Lost_in_Exsistance]

*Bump*
can i get some criticism on my entire library in that last post, tell me what you think
thanks.

 

[Tindy]

Your doorknob is shoddy and does't fit in with the rest of the picture at all, and either you have very tall bookcases and a fat door, or you just have a squat door.  That said, you're aware that your bookcases in the center pic aren't even?  It's enough to be obvious, but not quite enough to seem intentional.

 

[Strath]

Yes the door is a bit off scale and the door knob isn't 3D. Lol. I hate criticising stuff, makes me feel like an @sshole. Anyway.... where the first frame meets the second frame there are two shelf deviders on the front bookcase that are too close given their perspectives. ie, the 3rd plane (depth) in the first moves to the left and on the second to the right, giving the center of the picture (the picture being all frames included) an off center quality when taken in on its entirity. The best way to draw these kind of perspectives is to first create a horizon, plan a center point on it and draw lines from the forground to this point as a guide line.

I hope this quick diagram helps explain what I am saying......

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm23 ... m/Book.jpg[/img]

 

[Lost_in_Exsistance]

@Tindy - i see what you mean with the door, it's too wide, i'll fix that up.

@Strath - I get what you mean, i'll see what i can do about that.

thanks.

can someone show me how to draw a 3D-ish doorknob please.. i'm having alot of trouble with it.

 

[Tindy]

Spoiler: Knobs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v413/VevilaD/knobs.png[/img]

Also, every angle you draw has to either be vertical, horizontal, or go to a vanishing point.  Your books do not.

EDIT: All right, not *every* angle, but for the most part (I just thought of stuff like octagons :/)