Hate: What causes it to be okay?

[Volrath]

You want to live in a world where people don't have to be accountable for their actions. Thats what it sounds like you are saying. You hate the fact that I keep bringing up God and saying you will be accountable for what you've done. So lets just skip the argument and you can say you deny it all...unless you really want to talk about this.

If you oversimplify my arguments one more time, my head may explode. If that were true, I would be an opponent of the police and any kind of law. I am not. I don't care that you bring up God. I've just been telling you repeatedly that God is not a part of everyone's life, and so everyone should not be held to his standards, whatever those may be. Religion is a personal choice, living in a society that is upheld by the rule of law is not...unless you become a hermit in the Amazon or something.

This is the part where you will probably tell me that our laws are based in Judeo-Christian tradition, and in the areas where they intersect (i.e. no murder, no stealing), you won't find me saying people should get away with those crimes. What I am talking about is "crimes" that can only be justified through Christianity and nothing else. There is no reason why a non-Christian should be affected by something like that. None.

 

[FoxDemonSoavi]

Peopel are held accountable for their actions. That i why it is a crime to harm gay people. A lot of what is said about gay and american muslims is slanderous. And slander is also against the law.

 

[ArtBane]

Slavery...man...we already talked about this and you were in that debate too look it up in this forum. read the thread post your questions there.

Please stop redirecting people to other threads when they try to bring up a counter point to your arguments. If you are going to use the bible to defend your reasoning than they have every right to also use it to prove how selective you are being.

 

[FlippyD]

Oh Goddammit (and I mean it literally, God, please damn this stupid thread...)

The topic is supposed to be about hate, not about religion. Yes, the two are tied together, but do you all really think anything can be solved this way?

Let me try to simplify things and steer the thread back on the more broader topic (for whatever inkling of debate could be gleaned from that)...

Hate from one human to another is overall a bad thing. It stems from not understanding and fearing another group of person. This is from ignorance (so in this case, people are ignorant.) Thus, intelligent people are capable of hate. Others choose to use the bible or other things to validate their hate. This is wrong and stupid.

Hate, by itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. The bad thing is that it can lead to violence and other "bad-guy" activities. Hate is a natural part of our lives and as a strong and advanced culture we should learn to deal with hate in a controlled manner for the greater good and so that people don't look back on us in history and laugh at how retarded we all were.



In conclusion:

hate against people = bad
hate against living things = bad
hate against space invaders = ok

hate = good unless it breeds violent and uncivilized tendencies

thus

bad-guyism against humans = bad
bad-guyism against living things = bad
bad-guyism against space invaders = ?

 

[lunarhiro2002]

If you oversimplify my arguments one more time, my head may explode. If that were true, I would be an opponent of the police and any kind of law. I am not. I don't care that you bring up God. I've just been telling you repeatedly that God is not a part of everyone's life, and so everyone should not be held to his standards, whatever those may be. Religion is a personal choice, living in a society that is upheld by the rule of law is not...unless you become a hermit in the Amazon or something.

This is the part where you will probably tell me that our laws are based in Judeo-Christian tradition, and in the areas where they intersect (i.e. no murder, no stealing), you won't find me saying people should get away with those crimes. What I am talking about is "crimes" that can only be justified through Christianity and nothing else. There is no reason why a non-Christian should be affected by something like that. None.

Yes your right this is the part where I tell you that our laws are based on Judeo-Christian values. Since you know what I'm saying I wont elaborate on the law aspect.

But the whole structure of our society is based on Judeo-Christian values. Marriage, work (you dont work you dont eat), freedom of choice...the list can go on.

SO with that said your whole train of thought is infected with religious views. There really is no society or thought uninfected with God. Religion is just apart of your life as it is mine. In order to create a society without religion you'd have to drop infants off on another planet. And no one is willing to do that because the "humanitarian" side of them prevents them. Which is also a religiously ascribed thought.

for the sake of the argument please list some of these "crimes" that can only be justified through Christianity?

 

[Volrath]

for the sake of the argument please list some of these "crimes" that can only be justified through Christianity?

Homosexuality, for one. But hey, that's in another thread! We can't talk about it here lol.

SO with that said your whole train of thought is infected with religious views. There really is no society or thought infected with God. Religion is just apart of your life as it is mine. In order to create a society without religion you'd have to drop infants off on another planet. And no one is willing to do that because the "humanitarian" side of them prevents them. Which is also a religiously ascribed thought.

Well religion is a part of my life. I do consider myself something of a Christian, nothing too specific, because I don't go to church or anything like that. I was reluctant to mention that because I thought you would start to accuse me of not being a Christian like you did to Anaryu. You are not some grand arbiter who can decide who is Christian and who isn't. It is a personal choice, and views on certain issues won't always line up.

You are probably right to say that there is no society without religion. However, you have to accept the diversity within religion. Not only the difference between Christianity, Islam, Judiasm, and those others, but also the varying viewpoints within Christianity itself. My own feelings about faith are closest to those of the United Church of Christ (if I had to choose, at least), which are quite different than say, those Fred Phelps guys. So a justification delivered through a prism of one person's view of the Christian faith won't be applicable to everyone, not even all Christians. That's the point I'm trying to make. We have to basically agree to disagree, and hopefully not hate each other for it.

 

[FoxDemonSoavi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_BrTuFXJyM&NR
This conversation strikes me as pretty much what is going on in this thread.

 

[purplecyty]

Oh Goddammit (and I mean it literally, God, please damn this stupid thread...)

The topic is supposed to be about hate, not about religion. Yes, the two are tied together, but do you all really think anything can be solved this way?

Let me try to simplify things and steer the thread back on the more broader topic (for whatever inkling of debate could be gleaned from that)...

Hate from one human to another is overall a bad thing. It stems from not understanding and fearing another group of person. This is from ignorance (so in this case, people are ignorant.) Thus, intelligent people are capable of hate. Others choose to use the bible or other things to validate their hate. This is wrong and stupid.

Hate, by itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. The bad thing is that it can lead to violence and other "bad-guy" activities. Hate is a natural part of our lives and as a strong and advanced culture we should learn to deal with hate in a controlled manner for the greater good and so that people don't look back on us in history and laugh at how retarded we all were.



In conclusion:

hate against people = bad
hate against living things = bad
hate against space invaders = ok

hate = good unless it breeds violent and uncivilized tendencies

thus

bad-guyism against humans = bad
bad-guyism against living things = bad
bad-guyism against space invaders = ?

are you serious? (dammit my comptuer fucking restarted after I typed a wall of text now I got to restart so im pissed) so you are saying violence is not ok? But violence is just part of nature and humans are nothing more than animals that think we're civilized and above everything else. So by your logic violence is bad meaning that if a badguy does something violent the "good guy" cant use violence to subdue them? But of course bad and good doesnt exist that simply since people that do crimes arent bad, nor are they necessarily good. Whats considered good is just a bunch of common values shared by humans who think they are decent and more educated and civilized than everyone else. Humans should embrace their greed and hate and do as they please with consequences of course decided by the more fit human beings who can properly give them consequences. The "law" is just an attempt to control people who are acting human (or better yet since you may not understand, acting animal) instead of the pompous people who believe there is hope for mankind and that man was made to love eachother. When I hate someone I usually end up fighting them, same is true when someone hates me. Does it make us filth? No since all humans are filth, especially the ones that try so hard to do things they consider right when in their hearts they know they are nothing more than animals. If someone hates you and they are stronger than you and they kill you theres nothing you can do, if there is no enforcement or they are stronger than that than thats justice. Survival of the fittest and dont think I am not "educated" simply because I have barbaric views, that of course would be very closeminded

 

[Anaryu]

Sadly this issue is torn quite evenly within Christianity as well, whether it's ok to hate the sin and not the sinner. There's a reason there's a bit tear, because there's no direct answer to the question.

The "hate" quotes you gave were people describing things we should "hate" in the sense that we should not accept or allow. Also, I think people are thinking of hate differently here. In most all cases of modern "hate crimes" there is violence and such involved, I don't think "righteous hate falsehoods" meant we should go out and attack those speaking falseshoods.

The bible is a translation of a text from another language, the word there may not have even directly been hate, as many words could be used there to get across the same meaning: "The righteous shall not accept falsehoods." "The righteous shall deny falsehoods." "The righteous shall challenge all falsehoods." the meaning of that single statement could really be a multitude of things.

And like the split between Christian ideals in general, the Bible has so many obscure things that you can quote around and twist, especially in the Old Testament. I had a number of quotes, but this is just getting ridiculous because we're right back square one denying that any given quote could mean something. There's a list of things God cannot stand in Proverbs, and it doesn't include homosexuality. Is that list completely and utterly encompassing? What about later things that conflict?

Hatred is a human emotion that usually goes hand-in-hand with Sin, Jesus never hated, and he was the living embodiment of God, so it stands to reason that God doesn't Hate either.

 

[purplecyty]

Sadly this issue is torn quite evenly within Christianity as well, whether it's ok to hate the sin and not the sinner. There's a reason there's a bit tear, because there's no direct answer to the question.

The "hate" quotes you gave were people describing things we should "hate" in the sense that we should not accept or allow. Also, I think people are thinking of hate differently here. In most all cases of modern "hate crimes" there is violence and such involved, I don't think "righteous hate falsehoods" meant we should go out and attack those speaking falseshoods.

The bible is a translation of a text from another language, the word there may not have even directly been hate, as many words could be used there to get across the same meaning: "The righteous shall not accept falsehoods." "The righteous shall deny falsehoods." "The righteous shall challenge all falsehoods." the meaning of that single statement could really be a multitude of things.

And like the split between Christian ideals in general, the Bible has so many obscure things that you can quote around and twist, especially in the Old Testament. I had a number of quotes, but this is just getting ridiculous because we're right back square one denying that any given quote could mean something. There's a list of things God cannot stand in Proverbs, and it doesn't include homosexuality. Is that list completely and utterly encompassing? What about later things that conflict?

Hatred is a human emotion that usually goes hand-in-hand with Sin, Jesus never hated, and he was the living embodiment of God, so it stands to reason that God doesn't Hate either.

if your god doesnt hate how come he sends people to hell?

 

[Anaryu]

if your god doesnt hate how come he sends people to hell?

We choose to go down there by not asking for forgivness and wanting to be with him. Even if you choose to look at it as he's sending you there, it's because of what you've done, much like you will get put in jail for doing something illegal. It was your choice to do something was going to get you sent down there, he doesn't single you and say: "Hey, I don't like your face, you're going to Hell."

 

[FoxDemonSoavi]

in all honesty we can't understand the divine so its pointless to use it. It is just as pointless to use it to hate otehrs. Judge not least ye be judged. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[purplecyty]

We choose to go down there by not asking for forgivness and wanting to be with him. Even if you choose to look at it as he's sending you there, it's because of what you've done, much like you will get put in jail for doing something illegal. It was your choice to do something was going to get you sent down there, he doesn't single you and say: "Hey, I don't like your face, you're going to Hell."

so you're saying god has a join or die thing going?
So what if you arent christian but you live a christian life? Well you arent asking for forgiveness or wanting to be with him so would you go to hell? To tell you the truth hell is probally some myth used to scare humans into "behaving" since our weakness is fear, especially of the unknown And I'd say youd have to hate someone to send them to eternal suffering. Come on now you cant say god loves someone he sends to hell, if he did he wouldnt send them there. Therefore you have to admit god hates, (of course that is if he existed). If you dont than you really are a blind follower

 

[lunarhiro2002]

Homosexuality, for one. But hey, that's in another thread! We can't talk about it here lol.

In my country the USA had you asked earlier I would have been able to tell you that it is against the law...yet half of the country still outlaws it.

http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm this is in regard to sodomy laws. I couldn't find anything on lesbianism, which just points out the huge bias against male homosexuality and a greater tolerance of female homosexuality in American society.

@purplecyty

Hell was created for demons not people. God never forces anyone to go to Hell they go there cause of a choice which is A) Listen to God B) Don't.

 

[purplecyty]

In my country the USA had you asked earlier I would have been able to tell you that it is against the law...yet half of the country still outlaws it.

http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm this is in regard to sodomy laws. I couldn't find anything on lesbianism, which just points out the huge bias against male homosexuality and a greater tolerance of female homosexuality in American society.

@purplecyty

Hell was created for demons not people. God never forces anyone to go to Hell they go there cause of a choice which is A) Listen to God B) Don't.

are you saying some humans are demons? Thats just like singling criminals out and sayign what they do is wrong. No you dont agree with what they do, thats an opinion and you shouldnt arrest people based on opinions. Same as with hell, you are leaving your soul in the hands of someones opinion? Even if god existed he is nothing more than a supernatural being with a strong amount of power (or magic if it existed) and not any opinion is more correct than the other.

 

[FlippyD]

are you serious? (dammit my comptuer fucking restarted after I typed a wall of text now I got to restart so im pissed) so you are saying violence is not ok? But violence is just part of nature and humans are nothing more than animals that think we're civilized and above everything else. So by your logic violence is bad meaning that if a badguy does something violent the "good guy" cant use violence to subdue them? But of course bad and good doesnt exist that simply since people that do crimes arent bad, nor are they necessarily good. Whats considered good is just a bunch of common values shared by humans who think they are decent and more educated and civilized than everyone else. Humans should embrace their greed and hate and do as they please with consequences of course decided by the more fit human beings who can properly give them consequences. The "law" is just an attempt to control people who are acting human (or better yet since you may not understand, acting animal) instead of the pompous people who believe there is hope for mankind and that man was made to love eachother. When I hate someone I usually end up fighting them, same is true when someone hates me. Does it make us filth? No since all humans are filth, especially the ones that try so hard to do things they consider right when in their hearts they know they are nothing more than animals. If someone hates you and they are stronger than you and they kill you theres nothing you can do, if there is no enforcement or they are stronger than that than thats justice. Survival of the fittest and dont think I am not "educated" simply because I have barbaric views, that of course would be very closeminded

Hate/Violence against people = bad
Hate/Violence = natural

I used the bad-guy/good-guy analogy to try and lighten up the thread. I hope you don't think I believe in space invaders also.

in all honesty we can't understand the divine so its pointless to use it. It is just as pointless to use it to hate otehrs. Judge not least ye be judged. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Thank you, alright people, is there anything on-topic you can talk about?

@lunarhiro and purplecyty

That idea that hell is where bad humans go is up to interpretation. There's actually passages in the Bible that suggest that humans that do not accept Christ go to Hell, but only until the rapture, and others that support the idea that nobody goes to hell (yes, it contradicts what Christ says in passages, but the Bible is more hypocritical than a bunch of Hippos limit breaking *cymbal crash*)

And God is (for all intents and purposes) a GOD (durr...) He's/She's not human. We can't wrap our own philosophies around him/her.

(God with magic... sdanlknsadjnskasladdsalnasdn <-- Me banging my head on the keyboard.)

 

[purplecyty]

Ok, I usually don't read your posts nowadays because they're walls of text that thinly veil your meandering thoughts. Also because like the last time we talked you didn't read what I posted!!!

See the part at the end where I say violence against humans is bad, but hate by itself isn't? Did you even SEE it? Is there something wrong with your monitor or something? I wrote it down the most basic way I could. Seriously man, Jesus H. Christ, Mary, Joseph and his amazing technicolor dreamcoat. How much more easy do I have to make it?!

Let me write it again, perhaps if I write it twice there'll be a rip in space-time and you'll actually read it for once...

Hate/Violence against people = bad
Hate/Violence = natural

I used the bad-guy/good-guy analogy to try and lighten up the thread. I hope you don't think I believe in space invaders also. Just do us all a favor and stop putting words in my mouth and arguing against me until you take some courses in logic and grammar.





Thank you, alright people, is there anything on-topic you can talk about?



@lunarhiro and purplecyty

That idea that hell is where bad humans go is up to interpretation. There's actually passages in the Bible that suggest that humans that do not accept Christ go to Hell, but only until the rapture, and others that support the idea that nobody goes to hell (yes, it contradicts what Christ says in passages, but the Bible is more hypocritical than a bunch of Hippos limit breaking *cymbal crash*)

And God is (for all intents and purposes) a GOD (durr...) He's/She's not human. We can't wrap our own philosophies around him/her.

(God with magic... sdanlknsadjnskasladdsalnasdn <-- Me banging my head on the keyboard.)

dont get a attitude with me I read that you said hate wasnt bad and i agree, but if you read what the fuck I wrote for once you'd see that I said violence against humans isnt bad, you said it was bad and I disagree. Violence against humans was what I was saying is good the whole time so listen to me lucifer damn it

 

[Lene]

The hyper-defensive attitude of this thread needs to stop now. Disagree with each other all you want, but thinly veiled jabs at each other are not going to fly.

 

[purplecyty]

Hate/Violence against people = bad
Hate/Violence = natural

I used the bad-guy/good-guy analogy to try and lighten up the thread.





Thank you, alright people, is there anything on-topic you can talk about?



@lunarhiro and purplecyty

That idea that hell is where bad humans go is up to interpretation. There's actually passages in the Bible that suggest that humans that do not accept Christ go to Hell, but only until the rapture, and others that support the idea that nobody goes to hell (yes, it contradicts what Christ says in passages, but the Bible is more hypocritical than a bunch of Hippos limit breaking *cymbal crash*)

And God is (for all intents and purposes) a GOD (durr...) He's/She's not human. We can't wrap our own philosophies around him/her.

(God with magic... sdanlknsadjnskasladdsalnasdn <-- Me banging my head on the keyboard.)

but you see gods dont exist. And I didnt say god was human, i just said they have opinions and feelings that are human like if they exist. And of course god has magic thats how jesus did magic (unless he was an alien and im serious)

 

[FoxDemonSoavi]

People must stay on topic. This thread is not about religion its about hate and what causes it. Saying "Religion can cause hate" is okay. but trying to justify hate is not really part of the topic. Though it does give some nice examples of hate at work. This talk isn't about hate towards homosexuals either. Its about all kinds of hate why it exists. Possibly even how to stop it.

I will start issuing warns and infractions as needed if you are not on topic after this post.