Hate: What causes it to be okay?

[FoxDemonSoavi]

http://raincoaster.com/2007/01/26/donnie-davies-performs-god-hates-a-fag-the-infamous-video/

That is one example of hate. It is rather vulgar. I am under the impression that marginalizing a group and telling people that they are bad causes it to be okay to hate and harm them.

This kind of video just increases that hatred and continues to give the impression to youth that it is okay to harm this group. You will find stuff like this used to keep countires and people of different backgrounds angry at each other and not get along.

 

[FlippyD]

Wait... Are you... Are you serious?
Umm, cause if you joking I don't want to look like a freakin' idiot.

This video, you do realize, is less anti-homosexual propaganda and more of a tongue in cheek jab at Christians. The humor comes from the conflicting hypocritical nature of some Christians regarding homosexuality (edited in the word "some". Don't want to open a can of worms on myself.) If you're just joking around with your original post I apologize for explaining what, to me, seems like the obvious.

Christianity states that God is just and loving, nowhere in the Bible does it state "God doth hates yon fags." It's the close-mindedness of some individuals that take an old and disparagingly translated book like the Bible and turn it into a propaganda machine and dogmatic reich. This is how the video is hippo critical in it's approach. Yes, you will find Christians out there who do not like homosexuals, but an even smaller percentage would openly say "God hates a fag" much less write a catchy and up-tempo song about it.

But, are we really going to discuss why people hate each other? Are you serious? This is a question that's been answered and deliberated on thousands and thousands of times before now and, I doubt any of us have any profound message we've never heard or thought of before that hasn't come from the hippie era and beyond. Is there seriously anything anyone can bring that's truly new to the discussion? Something we haven't heard of?

No, at the risk of sounding callous and heartless I'm willing to believe you simply saw the video, got offended and then decided to show it to all of us to respond to you in a manner that's been done before. People will talk about humanity's tendency to hate each other, racism/sexism might get involved and we'll all talk about how insensitive and ignorant that video is (that is, unless this really is all a joke and I've made myself look like a d-bag. :/)

The sentence right underneath the video you linked to us reads: "Yes, people, it is a joke. You may climb down from the ceiling now." Did you seriously take the video at face value? And on the internet no less?

Though, I will admit hate is not a good thing, I also admit that there's nothing new that could be gleaned or pontificated in this thread.

 

[lunarhiro2002]

regardless of the point of the video, concerning the topic of the thread I think there is only certain times when hate is okay.

It has to be righteous hate. And since I don't know what that is there is really no reason to be hateful.

I guess another way to state it would be to say to hate evil. IF that is true then I understand.

I think there is a clear cut difference between evil, and people in the eyes of most Christians...its always the minority who is the loudest soavi...

 

[Rye]

It is never okay to hate. Hate only breeds more hate and hate itself causes rifts between people and causes great unrest. Lunarhiro, religious hate is the WORST because you're hating just because someone doesn't think the same as you do. If you say it is ok to hate just because you're religious, that is really hypocritical. Religion is supposed to be about love, peace and all that jazz, to come up and say it's ok to hate as long as it is religious seems very hypocritical, as Christianity, as an example, is about peace and forgiveness.

There is no such thing as Righteous Hate, it is never righteous.

And when you say evil, you should also note that evil is a term which changes from person to person.

 

[lunarhiro2002]

It is never okay to hate. Hate only breeds more hate and hate itself causes rifts between people and causes great unrest. Lunarhiro, religious hate is the WORST because you're hating just because someone doesn't think the same as you do. If you say it is ok to hate just because you're religious, that is really hypocritical. Religion is supposed to be about love, peace and all that jazz, to come up and say it's ok to hate as long as it is religious seems very hypocritical, as Christianity, as an example, is about peace and forgiveness.

There is no such thing as Righteous Hate, it is never righteous.

The bible says there is a time for everything a time for love, war, peace, and hate...i think I'd have to look it up...

I think Christianity is more about redemption...btw in Revelation Jesus is coming back not to be all peaceful and lovely. He's coming back as a warrior who is already victorious. God though hates sin, you cannot argue against that. So isn't that righteous hate? Maybe you'd have a stronger point if you argued that only a perfect being can have righteous hate.

 

[purplecyty]

hate is a human emotion and I believe a human should have rights and not have shame to their emotions (while yes shame is an emotion also) I believe if humans want to hate let them hate. However if other humans want to retaliate than so let that be. Humans are all free to do as they please, only discouraging factor is jail and other punishments. But that does not stop anyone at all physically or mentally unless they choose to not do as they please and not get punished. Therefore saying someone cant hate is like denying them a right (freedom of speech perhaps Idk...). Anyways to wrap up my mini wall of text I say hate is perfectly ok, what makes it wrong is the question? Sympathy does, punishment does, human "standards" does (or shall I say government standards). and ixis you remind me of myself in a way its kinda amusing, since we dont know eachother though lets not make an argument of this its an opinion. I think you may have oppositional defiance disorder lol. Other reasons too like how you just said what you said but anyways thats about it. Oh yes werent you mulatto too (kinda rhetorical here) hmmm well if you are im glad to see someone else for once of this mixed race (and lets not start an argument about wether a mixed race can be considered a race -.-) Oh of course one thing is hate is a good thing

 

[Anaryu]

"Righteous hate" is of no use either. Hate itself is an irrational behavior that stems from people's lack of self control. We all have it, we've all experienced it, hate is perhaps the most negative of emotions, and the more people you add to the fire the hotter it burns... exponentially.

People hate because people are free, that's both a practical AND religious view. I was raised a Christian and God gave us free will, meaning we can choose to hate; however it's our responsibility in the end to reap the rewards of our actions, be they good or bad. (From a religious stand point.)

To be honest I don't like most of the people in my own religion because it's very obvious they don't really believe in the religion they borrow the soap box from; they take obscure loops holes that they cannot defend, and ignore the teachings of their own religion about not hating and not judging. Even the priests I've dealt with are usually hypocrites. Preaching Week 1: "God says we must love all! Do not judge others, be like brothers." Preaching Week 2: "But we must stay clean, only those who truly follow the teachings of God and follow God's intentions of marrying the opposite sex are true sons of the Lord."

Religion is usually the outlet for hatred, because religion itself is based on simple things that cannot be argued against, and where our "reasons" are derived usually from obscure passages and texts that can be twisted as we like to fit our own preconceptions on how things are. Religion, like hate, also becomes easier as you form a "group mind" and when "group think" begins to set it.

As long as people are people, people will hate.

 

[Rye]

Oh, so just because a book says it is ok to hate, we should hate? Oh, that makes your argument even better LunarHiro. Who cares what God or Jesus thinks? What about you? Are you such a follower you can't even think that maybe the hate that God or Jesus is promoting is bad? To blindly follow them and hate what they say to hate is an awful way to live.

[Edit]
this is at LunarHiro's post before Anaryu and Purplecyty

 

[Anaryu]

Oh, so just because a book says it is ok to hate, we should hate? Oh, that makes your argument even better LunarHiro. Who cares what God or Jesus thinks? What about you? Are you such a follower you can't even think that maybe the hate that God or Jesus is promoting is bad? To blindly follow them and hate what they say to hate is an awful way to live.

[Edit]
this is at LunarHiro's post before Anaryu and Purplecyty

Actually those "books" don't ever have God or Jesus bedamning homosexuality. Usually people take more obscure passages and twist them, and usually from more human sources before Jesus came down and "educated" everyone on God, or from Peter's ramblings (who was a person who just couldn't do anything right - Jesus was correcting him all the time. As a literary character, he would be the foolish follower who doesn't really understand he who he follows, to be used as an example of humanity's limited understanding and dependence on emotions that give us quick and easy gratification.)

Religion is simply something that they "twist" much like a politician twists situations in the current world, to "justify" what they feel. It's not religions fault that people use it as a tool to justify things that can't be justifed. That's the fault of those trying to justify it.

The bible says there is a time for everything a time for love, war, peace, and hate...i think I'd have to look it up...

I think Christianity is more about redemption...btw in Revelation Jesus is coming back not to be all peaceful and lovely. He's coming back as a warrior who is already victorious. God though hates sin, you cannot argue against that. So isn't that righteous hate? Maybe you'd have a stronger point if you argued that only a perfect being can have righteous hate.

Neither Jesus nor God ever said Hate was good. Or that there was a time for it. If you're so sure I'm wrong, bring actual references instead of vague remembances. Sin makes God sad, not hateful. If he was hateful about it, you would have been struck by lightning (along with the rest of us) long ago.

 

[Anaryu]

The bible says there is a time for everything a time for love, war, peace, and hate...i think I'd have to look it up...

I think Christianity is more about redemption...btw in Revelation Jesus is coming back not to be all peaceful and lovely. He's coming back as a warrior who is already victorious. God though hates sin, you cannot argue against that. So isn't that righteous hate? Maybe you'd have a stronger point if you argued that only a perfect being can have righteous hate.

Neither Jesus nor God ever said Hate was good. Or that there was a time for it. If you're so sure I'm wrong, bring actual references instead of vague remembances. Sin makes God sad, not hateful. If he was hateful about it, you would have been struck by lightning (along with the rest of us) long ago.

 

[lunarhiro2002]

Neither Jesus nor God ever said Hate was good. Or that there was a time for it. If you're so sure I'm wrong, bring actual references instead of vague remembances. Sin makes God sad, not hateful. If he was hateful about it, you would have been struck by lightning (along with the rest of us) long ago.

Why is it that someone who doesn't even believe in my God can tell me what my God is like? and in particular have complete knowledge of the Bible and complete knowledge of the mind of God. If thats the case then your a Prophet ...

but seriously...if you wanna talk about homosexuality then go dig up the thread on it and read it...we've already had this discussion on rmxp. If you still have a question post it in that thread.

 

[Z-Row]

saying "well, the bible says" and then just making something up makes hate ok. ive seen it done all the time.

 

[Anaryu]

Why is it that someone who doesn't even believe in my God can tell me what my God is like? and in particular have complete knowledge of the Bible and complete knowledge of the mind of God. If thats the case then your a Prophet ...

but seriously...if you wanna talk about homosexuality then go dig up the thread on it and read it...we've already had this discussion on rmxp. If you still have a question post it in that thread.

I'm a Christian and have been since birth. I was more involved with my church than was healthy for a young person, to be honest. What it taught me is that what God and Jesus teach is NOT what Priests teach, which is why, against my parents and my priests urgings, I did not become a priest myself.

Don't assume because I don't agree with you I'm an aetheist, if anything you annoy me with your inability to speak the truth about your own religion, only the fabricated opinions you've placed for them with no real evidence to back up they have said these things. I still say your "points" are false, and request you back them up with actual quoted works.

The fact that you talk about Jesus and God pretty much leans you towards the Christian group... perhaps my assumption was incorrect. So please, enlighten me as to what God you believe in, as they must have a different Jesus and God than the Bible show.

 

[lunarhiro2002]

Ecclesiastes Chp. 3 (NKJV)

3To everything there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:


2 A time to be born,
And a time to die;
A time to plant,
And a time to pluck what is planted;
3 A time to kill,
And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
And a time to build up;
4 A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones,
And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
And a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to gain,
And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
And a time to throw away;
7 A time to tear,
And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
And a time to speak;
8 A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.

My reasoning that God hates sin is evident if anyone has looked or heard about the bible. God punishes sinful actions. Why would there be a hell if he didn't? Why would we be cast out of the garden of eden if He didn't hate sin?

Proverbs
13:5, The righteous hate falsehood but the wicked act shamefully

soooooo....

there is a place for hate...but its too difficult for people to use it correctly.

so hate teh sin not the sinner...

On a side note I htink this is the second time on this forum I've called you a non-Christian even though you are a Christian. Think about that...

 

[Volrath]

I think there is only certain times when hate is okay. It has to be righteous hate.

there is a place for hate...but its too difficult for people to use it correctly.

....What exactly are you even trying to say? It's okay to hate, but nobody should do it because we're all just too stupid? There's very little actual sense left in your argument.

So you can find a passage in the Bible that says "There's a time to hate." As I recall, there's a passage in Leviticus which says slavery is okay. Should we bring that back? And what about people who don't believe in the Bible? If they find themselves on the receiving end of hate motivated by religion, should they just accept it? Should they be expected to understand that because a book that means nothing to them has given these hatemongers permission to abuse them, they should just accept that?

The sad part is that this kind of nonsense is giving Christians a bad name everywhere. The people who use their faith as a motivation to do good things like disaster relief and other charity are always overshadowed by this logic-deficient nonsense. Why don't you try searching your own feelings before deciding it's okay to hate someone?

Edit:

On a side note I htink this is the second time on this forum I've called you a non-Christian even though you are a Christian. Think about that...

And just what the hell does that mean? I am thinking about it, and I've come to the conclusion that you just can't reconcile a difference of opinion, even with someone who is ostensibly a fellow Christian.

 

[Anaryu]

Ecclesiastes Chp. 3 (NKJV)


My reasoning that God hates sin is evident if anyone has looked or heard about the bible. God punishes sinful actions. Why would there be a hell if he didn't? Why would we be cast out of the garden of eden if He didn't hate sin?

Proverbs
13:5, The righteous hate falsehood but the wicked act shamefully

soooooo....

there is a place for hate...but its too difficult for people to use it correctly.

so hate teh sin not the sinner...

On a side note I htink this is the second time on this forum I've called you a non-Christian even though you are a Christian. Think about that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastes

Quote:

The work consists of personal or autobiographic matter, largely expressed in aphorisms and maxims illuminated in terse paragraphs with reflections on the meaning of life and the best way of life. The work emphatically proclaims all the actions of man to be inherently "futile" and/or "meaningless," as the lives of both wise and foolish men end in death.

That example is an example of a person's view on life, not God's point of view.


The Book of Proverbs is just that, Proverbs.

Your example is a generic statement not proclaiming "hate" as good, also, the author of this OLD TESTAMENT book is unknown but assumed to be Solomon, who also was a person and just considered wise, and again, he doesn't say hate is good, only that "the righteous hate falsehood," meaning you should not like lying.

In Proverbs the goal was to teach the theme that learning and wisdom should not be despised, and was written from the tongue of a person for other people.


In all your personal examples, Hell and the casting from Eden, God did what he promised he would do. He did not hate, he told them "Do not eat from this tree." and they did, that's called responsibility. In the case of Hell, HE didn't create it, it was created by Lucifer, and WE choose to go there by, guess what, not asking for forgiveness for our sins.

If He really hated sin, how could He forgive it?

On a side note I htink this is the second time on this forum I've called you a non-Christian even though you are a Christian. Think about that...

I think you sum up your issues quite nicely right there. You have no right to tell me what I am or am not, according to our religion, only God can say if I am part of the religion or not.


Oh, and here's one for you:

Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' (Matthew 22:37-39)

 

[lunarhiro2002]

....What exactly are you even trying to say? It's okay to hate, but nobody should do it because we're all just too stupid? There's very little actual sense left in your argument.

So you can find a passage in the Bible that says "There's a time to hate." As I recall, there's a passage in Leviticus which says slavery is okay. Should we bring that back? And what about people who don't believe in the Bible? If they find themselves on the receiving end of hate motivated by religion, should they just accept it? Should they be expected to understand that because a book that means nothing to them has given these hatemongers permission to abuse them, they should just accept that?

The sad part is that this kind of nonsense is giving Christians a bad name everywhere. The people who use their faith as a motivation to do good things like disaster relief and other charity are always overshadowed by this logic-deficient nonsense. Why don't you try searching your own feelings before deciding it's okay to hate someone?

I have the right to my beliefs. I can't force any of you to believe what I believe. You guys asked me to give you reasons I believe this and I did. Do what you want with it.

Regarding your question, what I mean is that people are corruptable. So if the Bible says there is a time to hate then we should be able to recognize when that is. I believe that we should hate sin. But most people take it too far like those guys who say God hates "fags". Yes he hates homosexuality, but not the human. Its not a logical falacy.

Arguing that there is a time to hate and realizing that your probably going to hate something the wrong way just shows that you have to rely on God to do things.

Jesus himself said if you do not hate your parents or something like that you cannot follow me. And if you believe what I believe it basically is saying that if you believe in God, you cannot allow anything to come between you and God. You have to hate the things that interfere with it.

I really dont like how all of you switch the burdens of proof. Where are your refrences and the reason for your logic other then everyone should just play nice and get along? You have none because your basis in thought is based on Judeo-Christian values. Almost all the laws in Industrialized nations are based on Judeo-CHristian values. Yet you deny what you believe. Your the ones with logical fallacies. you call yourselves good people as long as you do good things yet you can't blot out all those crappy things youve done.

@Anaryu

ALL scripture is from God, as reinforced by scripture in the New Testament. It is also okay to use Scripture for rebuking.

quoting a secular source as defining what the Bible is, hardly constitutes an answer, because if you believed what you say you believe you would find verses from the bible to support your actions...I can do it. Why cant you?

So here is my list of questions do you and I want refrences from the Bible supporting your views.

1) Show me that God does not hate sin, that he does not punish sinful people.

2) Show me in the Bible a verse that says Lucifer created Hell.

3) Solomon was the WISEST person EVER alive, according to scripture. Why isn't his views on God and what is right and wrong not from God? Didn't the Spirit of God use Solomon to write books in the Bible...not all of them btw. There are about 40 or more different authors to all the books in the bible.

4) If God doesn't hate sin WHY DID JESUS DIE ON THE CROSS? (Note: Jesus is God so why would God die for MAN?)

5) Please provide a scripture verse that tells me that I do not have the right to tell you what you are?

6) So how is loving your neighbor as yourself and loving God with all your heart a contradiction if you hate sin?

 

[FoxDemonSoavi]

It seems religion is one thing that causes hate. Peopel cling to belief and passages given to them by other people as an excuse for hating others. Codneming a group of people and then others use it as an excuse to do horrible thing out of their hatred.

It seems fear also causes and perpetuates hatred. But we are just focuing on hatred of homosexual. Mulims and people of arabaic descent are hated. They are hated mostly out of fear and misunderstanding. This makes me think that ignorance causes fear which causes hate.

Also, no one can force god to do anything. Thus no one can "show" that he exits or that he truely condems any paticular act.

 

[Volrath]

I have the right to my beliefs.

Nobody is arguing otherwise. Don't act persecuted just because your statements are being challenged.

You quote three paragraphs from my reply, and yet only seem to address the first sentence. If we are to base our lives around what the Bible says, then explain that Leviticus passage to me. The one that says slavery is okay. Ignoring that part doesn't make it go away. Also, explain to me why any of this should be an explanation to a non-Christian who finds a himself a victim of hate. How do you feel about Osama Bin Laden justifying his 9/11 attacks through Islam? An extreme example perhaps, but you can't really find a more clear act of hate than that.

I really dont like how all of you switch the burdens of proof. Where are your refrences and the reason for your logic other then everyone should just play nice and get along? You have none because your basis in thought is based on Judeo-Christian values. Almost all the laws in Industrialized nations are based on Judeo-CHristian values. Yet you deny what you believe. Your the ones with logical fallacies. you call yourselves good people as long as you do good things yet you can't blot out all those crappy things youve done.

You have completely lost me here. It's like trying to read another language. I want to live in a world where people don't have to be hated just for being who they are, no matter what a holy book says. I need to have a reference for that? And that last sentence....so unbelievably offensive. I have made mistakes in my life. Everyone has. But I just try to move on. I don't know if I'm a good person. I try to be, and I don't need anybody else to confirm or deny it.

Your chief problem seems to be that you can't believe that people would live their lives according to their own feelings and morals rather than a book whose author can't even be determined.

 

[lunarhiro2002]

You have completely lost me here. It's like trying to read another language. I want to live in a world where people don't have to be hated just for being who they are, no matter what a holy book says. I need to have a reference for that? And that last sentence....so unbelievably offensive. I have made mistakes in my life. Everyone has. But I just try to move on. I don't know if I'm a good person. I try to be, and I don't need anybody else to confirm or deny it.

Your chief problem seems to be that you can't believe that people would live their lives according to their own feelings and morals rather than a book whose author can't even be determined.

You want to live in a world where people don't have to be accountable for their actions. Thats what it sounds like you are saying. You hate the fact that I keep bringing up God and saying you will be accountable for what you've done. So lets just skip the argument and you can say you deny it all...unless you really want to talk about this.


As for Osama, hate the sin not the person. All are redemable, although Osama I'm sure will die a Muslim.

Slavery...man...we already talked about this and you were in that debate too look it up in this forum. read the thread post your questions there.