Geondun -- Dungeon Crawler with 432 party combinations

[Crazetex]

Geondun is a project that I worked on every now and then for a while, but eventually it got kicked aside by Karsuman and I's new project. For RS!6, though, I have added a few final touches and have decided to release what I had done. I might add more someday... it's more likely than a Demon Tower update, so. =D

The basic premise of Geondun is that you are a god--the Divine--that is taking part in a bet. You create four mortal avatars and begin your race to find a set of special Keys... but who knows what will happen in the dark and silent depths?

You'll be controlling your characters through two dungeons with minimal light--you can only see a little ways around you. This is not some pansy game where you know where you are going! Some areas are slightly more illuminated by torches, but don't expect such regal treatment when traveling most of Geondun.

This game was 432 possible party combinations! You get to create four characters made up from six races, six classes and three faiths. Will you play an accurate Elf or a spell-slinging Kesu? Will you follow the undead-destroying path of the Paladin or the gold-seeking, armor-ignoring path of the Oriental? The choice(s) are yours.

Due to the unfinished nature of this demo, the town and second dungeon are pretty patchy. The town is completely functional, but don't expect much fancy stuff going on. The first dungeon is 100% complete, however, and there are two optional bosses "hidden" in the hurried-up version of the second dungeon.

You will not be able to use saved games from this demo in any later, more polished releases that I might possibly put out (heh) without suffering from some weird errors, most likely... sorry.



DOWNLOAD: http://www.rpgmaker.net/games/1049
MUST-DOWNLOAD BLACKGUARD FIX: http://www.rpgmaker.net/~craze/GeondunFix.zip

Happy adventuring!

Massive guide to character creation

Spoiler

(Quick stat guide: HP is health, SP/Skill Points let you use skills, ATK increases physical damage, DEF decreases all damage, SPI/Spirit heightens magic and decreases magic damage slightly, AGI determines action speed and increases EVA and CRI, EVA is your chance to dodge enemy attacks and spells, CRI is your chance to enhance your action/get a critical hit, ACC is your chance to hit with a normal attack.)

Races

Human
The Human spirit lends itself to performing many great feats with enhanced success quite often.
Stats: Humans are pretty neutral. They have no penalties and gain significant boosts in SP and CRI--they can excel in any class by using their special skills more often than others.
Immunities: None.
Racial Skill: Human Will allows a Human to heal their body and purge stat-decreasing effects.

Dwarf
Dwarves are of a sturdy race that can resist great quantities of pain. They also can resist toxins!
Stats: Dwarves are hardy fellows that resist pain with high HP and DEF, but suffer from decreased AGI. This pushes classes like the Paladin to the extreme, but also makes for a decent physical class of any type.
Immunities: Poison effects.
Racial Skill: Constitution heals a Dwarf and increases their DEF for a length of time.

Elf
Lithe and trained well, Elf adventurers are fast and can hit opponents more regularly with weapons.
Stats: The main draw of the Elves are that they allow for the highest ACC possible, making them useful for classes like the Blackguard that have low-ACC weapons. While Elves have less HP than most, they gain a slight bonus to a wide array of speed- and skill-related attributes. They can produce the fastest Rogue character!
Immunities: None.
Racial Skill: Elven Mantra lets an Elf encourage an ally to never miss with a normal attack for an entire battle.

Kesu
Evolved humanoids from the eastern provinces. Kesu are excellent mages that cannot be influenced.
Stats: Focus on the ways of mystic spirit energy usage, Kesu trade ATK for SPI. This makes them great Evokers or Magi, but can also make for an interesting Blackguard or a healer-type Paladin.
Immunities: Effects that relinquish control of the character.
Racial Skill: Energy of Kesu sends forth a great amount of Kesu spiritual power at an enemy--not only does it ignore Guard actions, it has a higher chance to critical than other skills!

Gnome
Gnomes are short, allowing them to not be attacked as often as others. They are also rather bright.
Stats: Gnomes have an odd assortment of stat boosts: they have a higher EVA than other races plus enhanced HP and AGI. This makes them excellent Orientals, but the way of the Rogue (or really any class!) is also plausible. Gnomes also will not be attacked by enemies as often as any other race.
Immunities: None.
Racial Skill: Intuition, usable outside of battle, is a cheap skill that has a low chance of reviving an ally.

Orc
These monsters are highly skewed towards being warriors. Being ugly, enemies will attack Orcs often.
Stats: Orcs have incredible HP, DEF and ATK attributes. To offset this, their SPI and ACC are dreadful. This makes them brawny Blackguards, Paladins or Orientals... although, if you dared, you could try an Orc Magus or Evoker. The opposite of Gnomes, Orcs will take more enemy attacks than any other race.
Immunities: None.
Racial Skill: Horn of Kal'shurk sends an Orc bullrushing into an enemy for massive physical damage--but leaves the user slightly injured.


Classes

Blackguard
Masters of death. Blackguards refuse to release the mortal coil, and thus sell themselves to demons.
Role: Tank.
Stats: Physically-oriented, with a high chance of being the target of enemy attacks.
Immunities: Automatic death effects.
Field Ability: Blackguards can command skeletons that block passages to move, allowing access to some incredible treasures.
Example Skill: Crazed Hellflame summons a magical fire that drives an enemy into a terrible rage (while burning away a lot of HP, naturally).

Paladin
Masters of divine judgement. When a Paladin arrives, undead fall down and allies are reborn.
Role: Tank.
Stats: Enhanced physical attributes with a slight SPI boost, as well as dreadful AGI. Like the Blackguard, they are attractive targets.
Immunities: None.
Field Ability: Paladins can talk to fairies around Geondun that give gifts or heal the party.
Example Skill: Willing Martyr makes the Paladin an incredibly enticing target for enemy attacks; she'll take almost all damage for five turns.

Oriental
Masters of ancient arts. Resisting paralysis and ignoring enemy evasion, Orientals are deadly.
Role: Damage output.
Stats: Fast and sturdy, an Oriental is a mix of a brawny warrior and an elusive thief.
Immunities: Effects that stop a character from acting.
Field Ability: Orientals can find money lying around Geondun, just ready to be scooped up.
Example Skill: Intensify increases the damage that the Oriental does with critical attacks--and it lasts for the entire battle!

Rogue
Masters of accuracy and theft. Rogues prowl dungeons looking for treasure and chances to show off.
Role: Damage output.
Stats: Incredible AGI, EVA and CRI. A slight increase in ACC gives Rogue an additional edge.
Immunities: None.
Field Ability: Rogues have a chance of disarming any trap that the party comes across.
Example Skill: Snipe Guard makes a ranged attack that lowers an enemy's DEF.

Evoker
Masters of Fire and Ice. While offensive wizards, Evokers know more than enough support spells.
Role: Nuker & support.
Stats: While generally balanced, magic is primary.
Immunities: None.
Field Ability: Evokers are in tune with the natural world and can find healing items in grassy patches.
Example Skill: Antipodal Burst evokes the power of both Fire and Ice, sending damaging missles out at random enemies.

Magus
Masters of Storm and Energy. Magi strike down foes with arcane gestures and dangerous chants.
Role: Nuker.
Stats: Skewed incredibly towards SPI, with a slight boost in CRI. Magi are targeted less by enemies due to their often terrifying actions.
Immunities: None.
Field Ability: Magi have the ability of arcane sight that allows them to find SP-restoring items strewn about the astral plane.
Example Skill: Storm Focus imbues an ally's weapon with Storm damage and increases that character's resistance to Storm attacks.


Faiths

Trodain
The power of Life. Followers of Trodain enjoy increased HP reserves as well as a boost in DEF.

Almenga
The power of Truth. Followers of Almenga enjoy boosts in ATK, AGI and CRI.

Falena
The power of Courage. Followers of Falena enjoy an increase in SPI and a small bonus in EVA.

 

[Crazetex]

Ehhh, so it turns out that one of my edits was causing a fatal error when entering the Blackguard's skillset after it gained a certain skill.

IF YOU WANT TO USE A BLACKGUARD, DOWNLOAD THIS PATCH (I am not updating the tech demo zip):
http://www.rpgmaker.net/~craze/GeondunFix.zip

 

[Crazetex]

I'm curious as to why people don't pay attention to my projects. I guess they aren't terrible/pretentious/formulaic enough. :<

 

[MukanshinBlack]

It doesn't look bad, but I hate the default front-view battle system. More content wouldn't hurt, and it doesn't look like this game will play out for more then 20 minutes.

EDIT: I played this for like half an hour. Front-view battle sucked, fights were tedious, and the monsters are overpowered and there is a sufficient lack of items/money. It felt like I was playing on "Hard mode". Despite that, it was enjoyable. Since the game revolves around battles though, I think the monsters should deal less damage, players should level up faster (for the usefull skills), and battle system needs a change.

 

[Xaixis]

Well this definitely looks like an interesting play!

I hate to repeat MB, but he is right. If your game is centered around battles and leveling up, I would suggest adding a different battle-system (at least something such as Tentakai if you don't wish to change the strategy but aesthetics alone?).

Also it is a good idea to add some kind of initiative to keep playing and gaining levels. Maybe have certain unlockable characters, add some variants such as pets or demons, summon dead minions. Add some side quests that unlock more items.

Unlockable events/items are usually an easy incentive to keep the player playing, along with pleasing graphics and such are an easy fix (well concerning on how much work your willing to go through to make such systems work).

Other then that, I think that simple games such as this, simple dunegon crawlers are kind of neat.

Now I know this is probably way out of your range, but I always thought it would be cool if you could have you and a friend conquer dungeons together. But that is just slightly out the way and I'm not expecting to see such things happen with RPG Seris, but if you follow MB and a tad of my advice, I think that your replay vaule should be significantly greater (in my opinion of course).

Good Luck!

 

[Karsuman]

Does your game look UGLY to you? Do you feel INCOMPLETE without chibi sprites standing soullessly at the right side of your battle screen? Just add a sideview battle system to feel better about yourself! No charge, no tax, no hassle! Make your game look like everybody else's at NO COST to you!



It's amazing that RMXP.orgers seem to think that a sideview battle system solves all of a game's problems. Like, wow. It's a real wonder how so many VX games play like complete ass.

I also like how you comment on the game at length without having played it, Xalxis. Good going there man!



Anyway, this game is quite fun and is better at being a game than the typical VX stuff, like Mokensen and Legionwood.

 

[MukanshinBlack]

No one said anything about a sideview battle system, you know. I was just saying frontview sucks. I prefer an action battle system over sideview.

Also, could you please say what was fun about the game and/or what was bad?

 

[Karsuman]

Yeah, 'cause this project would work MUCH better as an action battle system.

Oh wait. No it wouldn't.

Did you guys ever think about the possibility that the creator chose to use the front-view battle system willingly? I mean seriously. LOLFROTNVIEWSUX is not valid criticism.

I guess I just find it hilarious that fun little demos like this get ignored while a whole bunch of overambitious garbage that will never, ever be released (or, if they are released, suck ass) get all the attention.

Also, could you please say what was fun about the game

It's fun, challenging and has good ideas.

and/or what was bad?

It's unfinished.

 

[Crazetex]

Karsuman: Thank you for defending this game in my absence. You speak the truth!

Also (this is a broad statement), please don't treat me like a n00b. I know what I'm doing, and the only thing that really upsets me about my recent works are that few people play them outside of RMN.

Xaixis: You are fucking hilarious. Like karsuman said, I willingly chose to use the front-view battle system. I have used, hacked and added to the Tankenetikaiktakkaitn battle system before, including the ATB version put together by Mr. Bubble. Also, how do you know that there aren't sidequests? Maybe--just maybe--there are NPCs that randomly appear in the dungeon that provide side-quests/extraneous goals to fufill. Maybe--just maybe--there is treasure to work for, horrifiying mini-boss monsters to overpower, and little perks that appear only if you choose certain races or classes. Maybe--just maybe--there is ton of replay value in the party creation aspect alone. Maybe--just maybe--I find your post incredibly insulting to me as a developer who knows exactly what he's doing (in my opinion of course). Good luck saving more souls from the horrors of front-view battle systems!

MukanshinBlack: It's a dungeon crawler. You're supposed to work for your rest; the sheer pleasure of conquering monsters and finding awesome loot in the far reaches of a catacomb is the aim. The game is hard, yes! It's about surviving, it's about exploring, it's about becoming a slayer of many monsters. Also, a side-view battle system was mentioned by Xaixis. See my response to him for more details!

------------

A review from RMN, by Fallen-Griever.

Griever plays Geondun

Gameplay: 9/10

Right off the bat, I have to say that this game has some of the best balancing I have ever seen. It might be because there are a range of elements and other effects to exploit, it might be because of the classes and races, it might be because of the secondary effects some of the skills have (such as recoil effects, costing health to use instead of mana etc.) or it might just be because of the well-mixed enemy troupes, but whatever it is makes the battles work really damn well. When you consider this is a game mostly about killing enemies and finding treasure, and that the battles are what make and break how fun the game is, they really don't dissapoint.

The fun battles are backed up by dungeons that, although kinda bland on their own, are broadened in depth by the introduction of a field of view for the player. The player can only see a limited area of the map at any one time, making getting around much more interesting and also making the dungeons seem a little less boring than they actually are if you see them in the maker. The limited field of view really saves the corridors the dungeons are built up from seeming linear as well, as they wouldn’t be as good as labyrinths if you could see the whole of the screen at once. Basically, the field of view is a really good addition, and I hope no one is put off from playing this game by it (I know I almost was, and that would've really been a mistake).

Another good thing about the dungeons is the introduction of mini-bosses, enemies that are greater in strength than your average enemy but are still encountered randomly. Their presence is, like the chance of getting lost, always in the back of your head, and it really makes sure you think about what you are doing at all times. Some people might not like that, but I do.

You might think that the game could get boring when it is only about fighting and walking, without any real storyline driving it forward, but there doesn't seem to be much missing from this game. Elements like puzzles aren’t really missed too much because of how well everything else fits together, and I have a sneaking suspicion that if they were there it wouldn’t work too well with the limited field of view. The only problem with the gameplay is that the first 10 or so minutes are a little dull, but things really do pick up once you start learning skills!

CharactersClasses: 10/10

This, being a dungeon crawler, doesn’t really have many characters to speak of, so an extremely well put together class system takes the place of personalities and backgrounds.

There is a bunch of well-balanced classes that, thanks to their unique skills and stats, make this game very interesting to play through. Aside from the fact the classes are pretty much perfectly balanced and differentiated, I can see a lot of replay factor in this game coming from the array of classes available. This is because there is little crossover between the skills and functions of each class, something I am glad about as crossover can ruin any class system quite quickly (cf. Dragon Fantasy II).

Add to the class system the fact that each character you pick has a race and you’ve got a complex system capable of spawning many combinations. Each race determines certain qualities the character will be endowed with and, although the difference between a human and an orc (of any class) might not be much, the fact it is there intensifies the character creation process. Would you rather have a character with a little more strength or a character who can heal a little HP to themselves..?

I also thought the random naming system was kind of cute, although it obviously doesn’t change how good the game is.

Storyline: N/A

There is a storyline, but it's basically in place to give you a reason for killing things. Much like the storyline in Diablo doesn’t matter, the storyline here doesn't either.

Graphics/Mapping: 6/10

I think the standout, graphical accomplishment in this game belongs to the monster graphics (not that I know where they are from). Most of them just look… funny, something I didn’t think would be a plus factor but actually is when you combine it with the silly-named monsters and the silly-named skills they have (Fitty Cent Punch, anyone..?) The game wouldn’t really have suited more detailed monsters anyway, so I suppose this was the best choice no matter what.

Aside from the monster graphics being a little out there, the rest of the graphics are what you’d expect from an RMVX game. They’re usually well used, but there isn’t anything special.

As for the mapping, I think it is pretty basic. However, it serves its function and, thanks to the narrow field of view, never gets a chance to look as basic as it really is. Nothing wrong with that, though, since exploring the maps is still fun in spite of the simple designs.

Music/Sounds: 6/10

I’ll be honest, the field music didn’t really appeal to me. It’s definitely passable for the style of game Geondun is, so it isn’t like the music doesn’t fit the style, but for one reason or another I found some of the tracks kind of annoying. Or maybe a better word would be corny, I found some of the tracks kind of corny. However, the battle music (which you probably hear more anyway) I did like, and I especially liked the drastic changes in tone between normal, medium and full-blow, stomp your face battle music. The tone of the battles was set really well just through the musical choices made.

As for the sound effects, they all just do their job; nothing to report.

Overall: 9/10

The aesthetic factors aren’t even slightly important in this game. It could have the worst music and graphics ever and, so long as everything was still functional, I would’ve probably still enjoyed this game. Maybe not quite as much, but I would've enjoyed it. I'm sure Craze is sick of hearing the D-word by now, but this game surpasses Demon Tower by mile; if you are one of the many fans of Demon Tower I really suggest you download this instead as it is vastly superior.

 

[superkboom]

I've always enjoyed the games you've made. And, imo, your Front View Battle System is nice for a change rather than seeing a Side View Battle System. I'm no one to give critique other than the fact I had fun playing the game.

The thing I admire most about your games, though, are how the databases are balanced well. And another thing I liked is the game play. I highly agree with the person who wrote the review about the game play, he hit it right on the mark. Anyways, I expect more great games in the future, good job!

 

[Crystalgate]

I start the game and get some backstory. Apparently, I'm the butterfly god and if I select four disciples that can finish a certain quest, said disciples can ascend as demigods. Awesome, four demigods will make my plan of converting the whole world to butterflyism by swordpoint much easier!

As disciples I select Granite, Dwarf-Paladin and follower of sub-fate Trodain, Bauble, Gnome-Oriental and follower of sub-fate Almenga, Nzaa, Kezu-Magus and follower of sub-fate Falena. As the fourth disciple I wanted someone who believes in investing in a lantern and some lantern oil. Sure, it's charming when they rely on me for light, but sometimes a lamp is the way to go. Unfortunately, no such disciple exist so I picked Hillbert, Human-Evoker and follower of sub-fate Falena.

My disciples seem kind of broke, so I have them enter the dungeon and hopefully find some loot. They soon run into a Bone Guardian. I quickly figure out two things. One, the Bone Guardian has a high defense. Two, neither the Magus nor the Evoker has trained in any offensive spell despite that being their job! Where those really the best guys I could get? Fortunately, the Kezu are born with the ability to blast others with spirit energy so my disciples eventually turn the guardian into a pile of bones.

They are however spent and makes it for the exit. Another Bone Guardian attacks them and they start running. Two are knocked unconscious, but the rest makes it out safely. My disciples recover at an inn while I analyze the situation.

They have very little money and poor equipment. They will however need better equipment to proceed. Fortunately, while they lack money they do have healing supplies. I quickly realize that they don't need SP restoring items nor do they need 90 HP elixirs. They sell those items and buy a new sword and a new claw. Much better!

Fighting goes smoother now, especially since they don't encounter any more Bone Guardians. It goes even smoother when my disciples learn some new skills. My paladin is now able to heal and my spellcasters actually each have a spell now. My oriental however gained the ability to hit harder if he's injured. I can't afford to keep him injured if he's facing tough enemies and weak enemies don't warrant such methods. My paladin also learned an anti-undead ability not so long thereafter. I will remember not to use it the next time I encounter a Bone Guardian and save her strength for Laying on hands instead.

My disciples are now progressing slowly, but steadily. The disciples of the other gods seem useless and content just standing around doing nothing. One air-head of a disciple who smokes lucky clovers even gave my disciples some semi-useful reward for a useless lucky clover. If another god's disciple want to help my disciples, who am I to reject that offer? Soon everyone will know the glory of the great butterfly!

 

[MukanshinBlack]

Wow, what the hell is with these replies?

Yeah, 'cause this project would work MUCH better as an action battle system.

Oh wait. No it wouldn't.

Did you guys ever think about the possibility that the creator chose to use the front-view battle system willingly? I mean seriously. LOLFROTNVIEWSUX is not valid criticism.

I never said he should switch to an action battle system and it is pretty obvious the creator chose and probably likes frontview. In your post preceding this one you assumed the game makers at .org love sideview so I said how I'm not one of them. And no one said LOLFROTwhatever. I don't like frontview (most of the time) so I said so. You'd prefer if I held back my honest thoughts?

I guess I just find it hilarious that fun little demos like this get ignored while a whole bunch of overambitious garbage that will never, ever be released (or, if they are released, suck ass) get all the attention.

You were one of those who didn't post in this thread before I, weren't you? Also, believe it or not, I've never seen a bad-looking project get positive attention. Maybe his project (or thread) doesn't look good enough for people to post...?

Also, could you please say what was fun about the game

It's fun, challenging and has good ideas.

and/or what was bad?

It's unfinished.

Well, it's great that you think so, although just telling the topic creator "this was fun and challenging but needs to be finished" will not help him on future games. It may give him motivation but will not make his game better then it could be. Criticism more closely means "analysis" then "happy motivation". I rather be told what's bad after the release of a demo other then blind praise.

Karsuman: Thank you for defending this game in my absence. You speak the truth!

Defending your game? You weren't being attacked. If your players don't like your game, how is it their fault?

Also (this is a broad statement), please don't treat me like a n00b. I know what I'm doing, and the only thing that really upsets me about my recent works are that few people play them outside of RMN.

Who's been treating you like a noob?

Xaixis: You are fucking hilarious. Like karsuman said, I willingly chose to use the front-view battle system. I have used, hacked and added to the Tankenetikaiktakkaitn battle system before, including the ATB version put together by Mr. Bubble. Also, how do you know that there aren't sidequests? Maybe--just maybe--there are NPCs that randomly appear in the dungeon that provide side-quests/extraneous goals to fufill. Maybe--just maybe--there is treasure to work for, horrifiying mini-boss monsters to overpower, and little perks that appear only if you choose certain races or classes. Maybe--just maybe--there is ton of replay value in the party creation aspect alone. Maybe--just maybe--I find your post incredibly insulting to me as a developer who knows exactly what he's doing (in my opinion of course). Good luck saving more souls from the horrors of front-view battle systems!

What the hell? What did Xaixis say for you to say anything like that to him? He gave an honest, and in my opinion cherry-topped, negative criticism. Like I said earlier, how can you blame the players for not liking your game?

MukanshinBlack: It's a dungeon crawler. You're supposed to work for your rest; the sheer pleasure of conquering monsters and finding awesome loot in the far reaches of a catacomb is the aim. The game is hard, yes! It's about surviving, it's about exploring, it's about becoming a slayer of many monsters. Also, a side-view battle system was mentioned by Xaixis. See my response to him for more details!

Well, believe it or not, I did not feel any pleasure whatsoever playing the demo. I said it was enjoyable in the sense that... I can't even recall, actually.

I think both your attitudes are terrible. It's as if I e-mailed a complaint to square-enix about a game they made and they reply "lol so what?".

@superkboom: At the same time you're saying something, you're saying nothing...

@Crystalgate: Unable/uninterested to comprehend what the hell you said/were saying.

EDIT: Longer then I thought this post would be...

 

[Crystalgate]

@Crystalgate: Unable/uninterested to comprehend what the hell you said/were saying.

You give me conflicting messages. Saying you're uninterested indicates that you don't care while actually responding to my post indicates that you do care. Regardless, it should have been obvious that I was mainly fooling around.

Anyway, time for some feedback regarding the game itself.

I like the party creation. I do however question the balance. I have tried the game both with a mixed party and a party of one blackguard and three paladins and the latter was like an easy mode. I picked the blackguard since three paladins seemed enough and I hoped it would bring some good offensive power, but I got the feeling a fourth paladin would have been better. I think the enemies has to be better on capitalizing on the paladin's weaknesses.

The low vision doesn't make the game much harder, just less fun. The labyrinths aren't complex enough to get lost in and the traps you stumble into due to the low vision are pitiful. I certainly didn't miss the rogue's trap disarming skills. Frankly, I didn't miss any other skill when using the three paladin party. The Oriental find a low amount of money and the non paladin classes finds mostly weak items. The paladin seems to have by far the most powerful ability. So far I've gotten one permanent HP up item, one Stormblade and a few full restorations from the fairies.

The game is rather cheap with skills. The caster classes don't even start with an offensive spell unless they are Kezus and I spent quite a while with a piddling amount of skills. With a low amount of skills it's hard to play it tactical and battles turns into a test of how powerful characters you have rather than how skilled you are.

I think you need to empower the non paladin item finding skills. Encourage the player to pick four different classes. Also, battles can become much more fun. Design enemies purposefully to capitalize on the skills and advantages of various classes. For example, two classes have good speed which requires enemies that you rather have one character go before in order for it to be a really useful advantage. On the flip side, the enemies should also play on the weaknesses of the classes more. Almost every enemy plays on the weakness of having a low defense, but what about paladins? I found that making two of the paladins Kezus pretty much nullified the problem with evasive enemies. Since paladins are durable, the low speed wasn't a problem as I almost never got into situations where I quickly had to heal a character.

As I've already said, I'm not found of the low vision. You seem to consider decent vision a royal treatment though. Maybe a vision that more gradually makes things darker instead of making everything past 1,5 steps completely dark would work as a compromise.

 

[Karsuman]

I never said he should switch to an action battle system and it is pretty obvious the creator chose and probably likes frontview. In your post preceding this one you assumed the game makers at .org love sideview so I said how I'm not one of them. And no one said LOLFROTwhatever. I don't like frontview (most of the time) so I said so. You'd prefer if I held back my honest thoughts?

You posted a lame reply to my first post. Before that, I didn't have an issue with you outside of your incredibly inane and unspecific comments outside of 'battle system sux' and 'make it easy'.

You were one of those who didn't post in this thread before I, weren't you? Also, believe it or not, I've never seen a bad-looking project get positive attention. Maybe his project (or thread) doesn't look good enough for people to post...

http://www.rmxp.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=1110&start=0

http://www.rmxp.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=28307&start=0

Both look terrible and are far too ambitious. Maybe you'll disagree. You probably will. I can bring up a bunch of other examples, but these are just easy targets.

Also, I talk to Craze all the time about his projects. I just don't do it at this (frankly, rather terrible) website.

Well, it's great that you think so, although just telling the topic creator "this was fun and challenging but needs to be finished" will not help him on future games. It may give him motivation but will not make his game better then it could be. Criticism more closely means "analysis" then "happy motivation". I rather be told what's bad after the release of a demo other then blind praise.

1) See above.

2) I am probably Craze's toughest critic. I have known him for years. Possibly before you even knew about the rpgmaker community. Certainly well before RMXP.org's existence and the existence of RMXP. For a long time all he made were awful games. I have seen both his attitude and understanding of game design/concepting improve tremendously.

3) I accept this is a half-baked demo of a game he will probably not complete. But it's longer and better than 95% of the stuff people put out in the end.

4) My comments are about as useful as yours were. That was the point I was making. Good job not picking up on that!

"Front view sucks" and "Make it easier" is not valid criticism. Crystalgate's posts, while...a bit difficult to comprehend, are an example of valid criticism.

What the hell? What did Xaixis say for you to say anything like that to him? He gave an honest, and in my opinion cherry-topped, negative criticism. Like I said earlier, how can you blame the players for not liking your game?

1) The nature of his post indicates that he did not actually play the game. Honest criticism is impossible without doing so. He gives Craze suggestions that he has already put into the game, in this very demo. This sort of bullshit does not pass as criticism in my eyes.

2) He is not blaming you for not liking the game. He is annoyed that his games get ignored in favor of really bad-looking FF/FE fangames, or stuff that is far too ambitious for it to ever see a chance of completion. This isn't the first game he has posted here, but the result always ends up being the same. It gets ignored. (until we got into this little spat, anyway).

The reason they get ignored? I am pretty sure its because they don't follow the typical fantasy jRPG game formula. Whether or not the games are actually good seems to have little effect on that.

 

[MukanshinBlack]

Unlike you, I don't try to disagree with people. I also don't understand this defensive position you've placed yourself, as if I have no valid negative criticism (and you keep twisting my words).

And since apparently the creator and his "friends" enjoy bashing people who have bad things to say about this game so I'm done here. Peace, kids.

 

[Karsuman]

Unlike you, I don't try to disagree with people.

If I was that bored, why am I not bashing Crystalgate's criticisms?

as if I have no valid negative criticism (and you keep twisting my words).

What, "front view sucks and make the game easier?" That's not twisting words. That's exactly what you said, summarized into a sentence. Then you said the game was enjoyable but followed up by saying you couldn't think of a reason you enjoyed it. Great going!

And I would argue that the criticism is not valid since it is not remotely helpful. It's just saying stuff, and giving no reasoning as to why those are issues.

Should I go into your game topic (assuming it ever sees a release) and say, "ABS/tactics hybrids suck and make it harder", and not go into any detail about it? I would imagine that'd be rather annoying.

And since apparently the creator and his "friends" enjoy bashing people who have bad things to say about this game so I'm done here. Peace, kids.

No sweat off my back, bucko.

 

[mawk]

Craze: simmer down, bro. I haven't seen anything critique-wise that made it necessary for you to take things personally. this is just about your game, you don't have to go on about how you as a developer are insulted. that's just self-indulgent.

also you seriously did not just quote a review to negate someone else's criticism.

Karsuman: don't be a white knight. you've got less business getting made than Craze does.

Muk: you chill out, too.

I'm going to start handing out warns if I see any more bickering or flamebaiting. chill out, it is not your kid at a soccer game it's a game that people are giving critique on.

 

[Crazetex]

I posted the review as a review, not as a retort. I am trying to advertise this game in the middle of a half-baked argument. :<

Also, I take it personally when people (like Xaixis) criticize stuff that they haven't played. I could have been nicer, yes, but I was not.

 

[second_crimson]

Alright I just played a little bit of this, and I have to agree on a lot of points that were already made.

Now I don't mind the front-view battle system. I like that style. I'd rather have that then the same old battlers or poorly drawn ones.

My issues were these:
* Spelling/grammar errors (not many, but they were noticeable)
* Not enough light. I get that it's a dungeon, but increase the viewing range by a few tiles. The way it is now just seems to be way too closed in, and believe me, you won't lose any challenge by increasing the view area.
* There were no skills to start with. You have your racial skill and that's it. If my Magus were not a Kesu, it wouldn't have been able to attack hardly at all. That's sad.
* Battles are WAY too hard. I like a challenge, don't get me wrong. But I played two battles and realized I had to get back to town. On my way back I was hit by another random battle and wanted to run away. I could not run away from my third battle. Instead I was forced to lose in two turns, trying to escape and preserve resources. I was punished for playing smart.
* Random encounters. This is a personal preference, some might disagree, but in a game concerned with exploration and fighting, I want the two to be separate entities. I want to be able to avoid enemies if I need to, and just do some dungeon crawling. Sure, let the enemies come after me, but I don't want to have to run into an enemy on my way out of a dungeon.

 

[Crystalgate]

In case the game seem to difficult at start, sell all Heal Elixers and Action Juices you have and buy two top tier weapons for the money you get. This should jump start your characters a bit and let them fight until they hit level 2 without having to retreat.