Feminism

[Sauk]

WARNING
Frequent use of the word " BITCH " may appear in my sentences. It is not a word I use to pertain to women, but a word I use to pertain to Self-Righteous bitches.


Is Feminism about equality anymore?

I'm in no way a misogynist, but I do feel as though ample amounts of women are inferior to men. The reason I feel this way is because of observation of women. I know, you can't base an opinion on an entire group of people based on the few that you've met, but more times than less I find that my opinions on the traits of some women show up frequently in other women who I've never met. The women I'm talking about, however, are NU-FEMINISTS, BITCHES, and PRINCESS SYNDROME SUFFERERS.

A few months ago I was browsing an internet forum. One of the threads were about " Is it okay for men to cry? ". I clicked it, and was appalled at the sight of what one bitch had said. She claimed that crying is not manly and she would lose respect for any man who cried. I was infuriated. I said to her " Yeah but you'd expect him to have a shoulder to lean on when you weeped. " which she replied to " Yes I would because that's his job. If he's crying over nothing I would slap him in the face and tell him to man up. " I couldn't believe her way of thinking. I then said " Why is it nothing? Is it nothing because it isn't affecting you? What if he was to say what you were crying about was nothing and tell you to man up? " she replied with " Well then he would see the door. " I couldn't believe the hypocrisy in her sentences.

That day brought up a bunch of questions that I'm still asking:

-Why is it okay for a woman to insult a man, but a man can't insult a woman?
-Why is it socially acceptable for a woman to hit a man, but a man can't hit a woman?
-Why is it that men have to pay alimonies even though they aren't the provider of their ex-spouse anymore?
-Do Feminists really want equality, or do they want Superiority?

Another time I've had a run in with one of these types of people was on another internet forum ( I know, strong internet conversations but none the less shows where peoples thinking is ). She had asked if it was okay that she slapped her boyfriend in the face because he was talking to another girl. I could believe she said that, since all women seem to think that they have every right to hit a man, what I couldn't believe was all the white knight " men " who were backing HER up. I said to her " No you don't have any right to put your hands on him, why the fuck do you think you could? " She replied with " He was being an ass though and was talking to some other girl. " So I said " So by your logic every time you're a bitch he can humiliate you by slapping you across the face, right? " I couldn't believe her next response. " No because I'm a girl and men aren't supposed to hit women. "

This isn't the first time I've had run ins with women who think they can hit men. One time at school I was sitting beside my friend. He had told me about this girl who got pregnant at 16 and was making fun of her because of it ( She got pregnant to keep her boyfriend with her). Her and an arsenal of women then persisted to yell at him and call him all sorts of foul names, which resulted in me stepping in. They were appalled at the thought of being called cunts, bitches, fuck ups, etc. despite them saying extremely rude things to my friends. " Any real man wouldn't talk to a woman like this, you think you're so tough chirping a woman I'd like to knock you out " was said to me. I said " I'd knock you the fuck out in plain day if you ever put your hands on me. " She then laughed and told me that my life would be a living hell if I hit her, since she knows white knights would jump in and back her up.

Lets get something straight. Women and Men are a part of the Homo-Sapiens Sapiens species, which is a part of the Primate family(?). With primates, the males are bigger than the females BY DESIGN, thus the dominant gender. Feminists do not like to claim that men are stronger than women ( I don't care if they mean mentally or physically, because in certain instances they DO mean physically ), yet will use the fact that they're weaker by design to justify why it isn't right to hit a woman DESPITE them hitting first. They want equal rights? Then they should get equal fights. Fighting, Swearing, Insulting is all viewed as a man trait. You want to act like a man, expect to be treated like a man.

Bitches do not know what repercussions are, they've never had to face them, they have so many perks with situations like insurance costs, avoiding conflict with men whilst assaulting / mouthing them off, having shit bought for them and EXPECTING IT, etc. Ever since birth women are taught that they are queens and deserve to be treated as such / deserve everything either through media, parenting, or word of mouth through society's actions.

I saw a Fox News video on youtube with two girls basically insulting men and saying that women are far more SUPERIOR than men and everything would be better with women running the show ( despite the fact that women act on impulse and emotions rather than logical thinking ). She said she did not need a man's money to help her get by and that she was this independent figure. Buddy then brought up the fact that she had filed for alimony which she replied with " I have three kids! " ALIMONY IS NOT CHILD SUPPORT, IT IS TO RETAIN YOUR LIFESTYLE. The segment was then cut short and more than likely that guy was viewed as an asshole. WHY? Why does he have to pay for her to retain her lifestyle, why was the guy she was debating with wrong to insult her with facts when she was insulting him throughout the whole segment?


Which brings me to my conclusion that Feminism in a sense has been tainted to the point that it seems like it's no longer about equality, but superiority. What do you think?


REMEMBER: I do NOT hate all women, I only hate bitches.

 

[StrawberrySmiles]

-Why is it okay for a woman to insult a man, but a man can't insult a woman? No one should insult each other, period. Unless they're joking, but I hate insults anyway. :P

-Why is it socially acceptable for a woman to hit a man, but a man can't hit a woman? I can't answer this one, but aren't women usually more frail and weak than men? O_oa I mean, I sure couldn't win against a man in fight...

-Why is it that men have to pay alimonies even though they aren't the provider of their ex-spouse anymore? After watching this one show, I actually find this unfair.

-Do Feminists really want equality, or do they want Superiority? As a feminist, I want equality.

I do not think we are superior than men at all. I actually think men are superior to us. Remember, this is my belief and it doesn't mean they are.

I wish I could discuss this more, but I don't really know what to say... O_oa

 

[Sauk]

-Why is it socially acceptable for a woman to hit a man, but a man can't hit a woman? I can't answer this one, but aren't women usually more frail and weak than men? O_oa I mean, I sure couldn't win against a man in fight...

See that's what I mean. You would get SHUNNED by women for saying men are stronger than you, but at the same time they'd use that as an excuse to justify their actions. That's like a pro-boxer not being able to hit a 110lbs guy simply because he's stronger than him. Where's the fairness? I don't mean go ahead and wail on a girl, but why would they instigate a fight in the first place knowing full well she won't win without the aid of men?

-Do Feminists really want equality, or do they want Superiority? As a feminist, I want equality.

I do not think we are superior than men at all. I actually think men are superior to us. Remember, this is my belief and it doesn't mean they are.

I respect your opinions, and some things associated with feminism I do agree with ( Equal paying jobs for the same amount of labour ). However, I don't understand why one form of assault is different than another form, or why one person has complete immunity to insult others etc.

 

[Kingdom Ablaze]

i fully agree with you, i have this debate alot with my friends. i think we need to aim for true equality and destroy any superiority(male or female)

 

[Sauk]

i fully agree with you, i have this debate alot with my friends. i think we need to aim for true equality and destroy any superiority(male or female)

This.

Not because of the agreeance ( I can handle criticism ), but because of the bold part.

 

[Ellie]

A lot feminism, gay pride, reverse raccism, etc is all about getting back at the misjustice of the past rather than gaining equality. It would be too far to say that all feminism is about superiority, but a lot of it is.

Generally those that just want equality are laughed down or stay silent.

It's something that shows up in British education quite well:

- Boys were doing better than girls at school for centuries as boys were taught more / different subjects
- Girls were pushed harder to get them up to standard
- For a decade or so girls were doing better than boys at school
- Now boys are being pushed harder

They need to push both equally instead of just trying to balance it out because by attempting to balance they overcompensate.

 

[DeM0nFiRe]

I think that for anything like this, whether it be sexism, racism, anti-gay, or cats vs dogs, the only way equality will happen is if both sides help each other equally. So I agree with most of what people have been saying here.

The one thing I disagree with, though, is what saukretes said about alimony. That's actually not as much of a man vs women thing, it's more of a matter of who was a provider. Theoretically, if the women is making all the money and then they divorce, she has to pay alimony to him. The reason for it actually doesn't have anything to do with gender (although the law maybe in practice it has favored one gender). Really what it's for is so that if one spouse gave up going to school or stopped trying to get a job because the other spouse said "Oh, I'll take care of you" or one of them had to stay home for kids, when they divorce 10 years later, the one who was staying home isn't screwed because they don't have the education or whatever they would (or might) have gotten otherwise.

 

[Sauk]

I think that for anything like this, whether it be sexism, racism, anti-gay, or cats vs dogs, the only way equality will happen is if both sides help each other equally. So I agree with most of what people have been saying here.

The one thing I disagree with, though, is what saukretes said about alimony. That's actually not as much of a man vs women thing, it's more of a matter of who was a provider. Theoretically, if the women is making all the money and then they divorce, she has to pay alimony to him. The reason for it actually doesn't have anything to do with gender (although the law maybe in practice it has favored one gender). Really what it's for is so that if one spouse gave up going to school or stopped trying to get a job because the other spouse said "Oh, I'll take care of you" or one of them had to stay home for kids, when they divorce 10 years later, the one who was staying home isn't screwed because they don't have the education or whatever they would (or might) have gotten otherwise.

The whole " IN FAVOUR " thing was what I was pertaining to.

I know it was a bad example of my reasoning for hating most feminists, but it was a reason none the less ( even though I understood men file for it as well ).

 

[Venetia]

;x

ok

let me say this:

i hate women.

i myself am one.

most women perpetrate their own stereotypes.

i was once invited to a feminist rally.

held in a country club.
with catering focused mainly on chocolate.
where they were all expected to wear pink heels so people "knew what they stood for".
i answered, " ... uh ... so, pro-stereotype?"

there are entire shows, entire hours+ of TV
devoted entirely to pregnancy
and being a "bridezilla"
and wearing lots of self-tanner and being vapid as humanly possible.
i see/hear commercial after commercial, portraying women as being technologically/mechanically inept, shoe/chocolate/clothes/material possessions-crazed ... and, if they have even a bit of an intellect: absolutely bat-shit assholish.
on the internet, if i ever indicate my gender, i am bombarded with advertisements for laundry detergent, pre-natal care, expensive clothing, jewelry. never anything tech-related, games-related, or really anything worth even half a shit.
and i have not seen a commercial, PSA, television show, or anything of the sort, supporting science/math/technology awareness in women in easily 10 years now.

i don't ever know what to say.
what can I say?
i am guilty of things like vanity myself.
but females are raised all the time, instantly pigeonholed, from day one, towards fitting this mold.
it all is accepted within our own community and is seen as innocuous.
it's rather inescapable.
only thing we can do is to stop classifying ourselves as a separate group of people simply because of how we were born.
sooner we stop seeing so many differences at a glance, hopefully things will become less skewed.
but it will take several more generations atleast.


that said,

I'm in no way a misogynist, but I do feel as though ample amounts of women are inferior to men. The reason I feel this way is because of observation of women. I know, you can't base an opinion on an entire group of people based on the few that you've met, but more times than less I find that my opinions on the traits of some women show up frequently in other women who I've never met. The women I'm talking about, however, are FEMINISTS, BITCHES, and PRINCESS SYNDROME SUFFERERS.

i completely agree.
when you keep a group of people down for a period of time (see: the past 3000+ years), they will develop a sense of entitlement upon acquiring rights.
this sense of entitlement will translate into a negative mentality in the majority of those who are not free-thinkers.
this does not necessarily mean "stupid".
it is easy to have a "cattle mentality" and be intelligent. it is rooted in adaptive behavior, not necessarily logic.
it is also easy for men to acquire these feelings of annoyance--
the behavior is annoying.
your belief in womens' inferiority is probably a knee-jerk reaction to insecurity derived from observing so many examples of unsavory behavior.

A few months ago I was browsing an internet forum. One of the threads were about " Is it okay for men to cry? ". I clicked it, and was appalled at the sight of what one bitch had said. She claimed that crying is not manly and she would lose respect for any man who cried. I was infuriated. I said to her " Yeah but you'd expect him to have a shoulder to lean on when you weeped. " which she replied to " Yes I would because that's his job. If he's crying over nothing I would slap him in the face and tell him to man up. " I couldn't believe her way of thinking. I then said " Why is it nothing? Is it nothing because it isn't affecting you? What if he was to say what you were crying about was nothing and tell you to man up? " she replied with " Well then he would see the door. " I couldn't believe the hypocrisy in her sentences.

i'll tell you right now,
it is, admittedly, weird for me to see a man cry.
why?
I never see it.

when i see a man i care about cry, my reaction is 10x more severe than with women. women do it at nothing. when men do it, something is really fucking wrong. i, personally, only cry when shit is really fucking wrong ... but then you can't expect for everyone to have the same level of control over their hormones.

the chick you were talking to was obviously ignorant, but it's easy to see why: women cry more! we produce hormones that trigger sadness and insecurity and helplessness all the fucking time. it's inescapable. men produce hormones that trigger anger and frustration and morbidity. it's no surprise that our society adapted to these hormonal swings (men are supposed to be stoic; women are moody). it is difficult to shake these social constructs.

it is also doubtful that the girl in question ever actually "slapped" any guy because of emotions. she'd probably never even encountered it.
hell, i've seen all kinds of action movies where I say "oh in that situation i'd totally do X" ... but then I'm faced with something similar, and I freeze. You never know exactly how you'll react.

-Why is it okay for a woman to insult a man, but a man can't insult a woman?

why is it ok for black people to make anti-white jokes but whites' derision of blacks has to be relatively pg-13?
it is a group of people who were subjugated for a period of time and have a sense of entitlement.
we gain equality, and we hold it for a while ... and the field will level out a bit for as far as insults go.
it will be a while.

-Why is it socially acceptable for a woman to hit a man, but a man can't hit a woman?

in case you have not noticed, women are weak.
my boyfriend is 6'3", ~270lbs ... if he hit me, it'd break my face. if i hit him, it MIGHT leave a small mark.
no matter how equal women want to be ... we have to train a million times harder to get anywhere NEAR the level of physical strength or agility men get just from having a shitload of testosterone.
i don't like it! it kind of sucks! but them's the breaks.
same reason why it's not cool to punch a 6-year-old.

(but if a chick is wailing on you ... imo it's not really a bad thing to slap some sense into her.)

-Why is it that men have to pay alimonies even though they aren't the provider of their ex-spouse anymore?

women have to, too--if the man gets the kid.
the law is still somewhat skewed against men. it's harder for dudes to get custody.
it is just so much more likely for the guy to be the flighty or abusive one in a dissolved relationship, and men still make more money on average.
it'll take time to lead away from that.

-Do Feminists really want equality, or do they want Superiority?

strict feminists are extremists.
like any extremists ... they are skewed.
it's just ... how extremists are.

but fyi: chicks who are fed up with being discriminated against are not necessarily feminists.
i like men. i think we should just stop recognizing gender in such a dramatic fashion!
but i am so fucking tired of being treated as inferior because i have tits.
when a male interviewer clasps my hand instead of giving me a firm handshake, it is insulting.
when a male repairman asks to "speak to the man of the house" in regards to household repairs, i want to fucking slug him.
can you really blame me :/




tl;dr:
- chicks need to be taught to focus more on math/science/tech earlier in life
- commercialism is really hurting our progress
- "cattle mentality" is just a fact of life in large society
- judging people is easy when there are so many examples of negative stereotypes
- bitches suck but are no more indicative of our gender than tony soprano is an accurate depiction of all italians

 

[Anski]

I know it's not contributing that much, but I have to say that I really, really agree with what Ven is saying.

To iterate on my own views:
Being ignorant and hypocritical can happen to any general group, anywhere from women to supremacists, as said in another thread. I don't think it's right for a man to hit a woman on general overpowering. Sure, a woman can hit a man but there isn't that much damage done. If they actually do enough damage to scale a man thrashing a woman, then justice should be done to the woman as equal would be delivered to the man. I wish I had time to continue on to all of the topics but Ven mirrors what i'd be saying, and i'm far too tired from writing 4x the daily goal in NaNoWriMo tonight. I might proceed tomorrow.

Edit: This is also a good thread, Saur.

 

[Sauk]

i'll tell you right now,
it is, admittedly, weird for me to see a man cry.
why?
I never see it.

when i see a man i care about cry, my reaction is 10x more severe than with women. women do it at nothing. when men do it, something is really fucking wrong. i, personally, only cry when shit is really fucking wrong ... but then you can't expect for everyone to have the same level of control over their hormones.

the chick you were talking to was obviously ignorant, but it's easy to see why: women cry more! we produce hormones that trigger sadness and insecurity and helplessness all the fucking time. it's inescapable. men produce hormones that trigger anger and frustration and morbidity. it's no surprise that our society adapted to these hormonal swings (men are supposed to be stoic; women are moody). it is difficult to shake these social constructs.

it is also doubtful that the girl in question ever actually "slapped" any guy because of emotions. she'd probably never even encountered it.
hell, i've seen all kinds of action movies where I say "oh in that situation i'd totally do X" ... but then I'm faced with something similar, and I freeze. You never know exactly how you'll react.

It wasn't the assault that appalled me, it was her lack of sympathy. I forgot to mention that the guy in question was her boyfriend, and the fact that she didn't respect him / care for him enough to comfort him during a desperate time showed. Why is HER problems more important than HIS, why is HER problems more severe than HIS? Why is it that if he's crying she can tell him to man up, but if she's crying he can " see the door " if she says the same thing? It doesn't make sense to me.

why is it ok for black people to make anti-white jokes but whites' derision of blacks has to be relatively pg-13?
it is a group of people who were subjugated for a period of time and have a sense of entitlement.
we gain equality, and we hold it for a while ... and the field will level out a bit for as far as insults go.
it will be a while.

I completely agree, I just don't understand it personally. It just astounds me how women can sit there in awe and be infuriated that someone is defending themselves verbally after receiving an onslaught of foul names / things said to them because " They're women and deserve to be treated like queens " despite them having little to no class.

in case you have not noticed, women are weak.
my boyfriend is 6'3", ~270lbs ... if he hit me, it'd break my face. if i hit him, it MIGHT leave a small mark.
no matter how equal women want to be ... we have to train a million times harder to get anywhere NEAR the level of physical strength or agility men get just from having a shitload of testosterone.
i don't like it! it kind of sucks! but them's the breaks.
same reason why it's not cool to punch a 6-year-old.

(but if a chick is wailing on you ... imo it's not really a bad thing to slap some sense into her.)

I agree that men are stronger by design, but is that really a justification? I don't see why feminists claim that women are just as strong as men, then use the " we're weaker " excuse when it best suits them. To me, that's having no backbone. I don't advocate woman abuse, or men abuse and feel as though both should keep their hands to themselves. However, if a girl assaults a man, be it a slap or a punch, why should she not face repercussions on the same intensity that she dished out? That's like saying a 6' 5" 205lbs boxer is wrong for defending himself against a 5' 2" 105lb manlet because the manlet is weaker than him.

women have to, too--if the man gets the kid.
the law is still somewhat skewed against men. it's harder for dudes to get custody.
it is just so much more likely for the guy to be the flighty or abusive one in a dissolved relationship, and men still make more money on average.
it'll take time to lead away from that.

I know, this was a horrible example. I more or less added it to talk about the woman who claimed women are superior to men and don't need a mans money etc. then filed for alimony and used her kids as a justification for using, in essence, a mans money.

strict feminists are extremists.
like any extremists ... they are skewed.
it's just ... how extremists are.

but fyi: chicks who are fed up with being discriminated against are not necessarily feminists.

I agree completely and don't think that all feminists are extremists. I do agree with some of the things feminism advocates ( like equal pay for equal labour ), but I don't agree with most.

when a male interviewer clasps my hand instead of giving me a firm handshake, it is insulting.

This made me laugh a little, because it's the exact same for me. I go to give a firm handshake to a woman when being interviewed / whatever ( I admire a good handshake ), and all I get is a limp slap / hold.


Thank you for giving your input on the subject, it helps with insight and getting both sides of the story.


Edit: Re-did it.

 

[Venetia]

i like to think the "we're stronger" thing applies mostly to determination strength.

but it's all based on experience. i can take WAY more hardship than most guys i know. but then they were never homeless

and if they say it's because we can have children ...
bullshit.

that area of the body is designed to stretch.
i've had surgery before; i've been stabbed too.
i can't imagine it sucking much harder.
but even my surviving it wasn't anything to gloat about in terms of general "strength" ability

 

[Sauk]

i like to think the "we're stronger" thing applies mostly to determination strength.

but it's all based on experience. i can take WAY more hardship than most guys i know. but then they were never homeless

and if they say it's because we can have children ...
bullshit.

that area of the body is designed to stretch.
i've had surgery before; i've been stabbed too.
i can't imagine it sucking much harder.
but even my surviving it wasn't anything to gloat about in terms of general "strength" ability

Topic change for a second: My dear lord o_o.

Good job with getting back on track, seriously o_o. That must have been a long journey.

Back to topic:

As stated above, I do know that most of the strength they talk about is mental, but at the same time there are instances where they mean physical strength ( ex. sports like hockey, wrestling, mma, etc ). I just don't understand it being a dude ( and probably never will ).

I hope I didn't offend you in any way.

 

[Sauk]

A lot feminism, gay pride, reverse raccism, etc is all about getting back at the misjustice of the past rather than gaining equality. It would be too far to say that all feminism is about superiority, but a lot of it is.

Generally those that just want equality are laughed down or stay silent.

It's something that shows up in British education quite well:

- Boys were doing better than girls at school for centuries as boys were taught more / different subjects
- Girls were pushed harder to get them up to standard
- For a decade or so girls were doing better than boys at school
- Now boys are being pushed harder

They need to push both equally instead of just trying to balance it out because by attempting to balance they overcompensate.

This is really insightful.

I'm not one for labeling groups different from each other, I just expect people to understand I hate extremist groups when I say I hate this and this group, which isn't fair on my part. I agree with everything you've said in this post, especially the whole " stop balancing and do it at the same time " point.

Sorry that I never responded to your post Wyatt.

 

[regi]

imo, it all sums up to the way people are raised. In a society predominated by stereotypes and media, it's just about impossible to grow up 0% racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. No matter how intelligent, everyone is prone to be impacted by some event in his/her life, or some report on the news. It's only those who are aware of this, and are open-minded enough, who deserve to be recognized. Everyone else, just treat them like the regular facebook moron: troll or ignore 'em.

 

[Twirly]

A lot feminism, gay pride, reverse raccism, etc is all about getting back at the misjustice of the past rather than gaining equality. It would be too far to say that all feminism is about superiority, but a lot of it is.

You know, this argument is brought up a lot. Now I want to ask people saying stuff like that: "where was your ass when people treated women/blacks so bad that it is alright for you to be a FUCKING ASSHOLE?" Because even the newer generations of people still act like that sometimes! And they have no reason to. Leave things from the past
But hey, it's not their fault, they are raised like that by dumb parents, bombed by dumbshit media etc.
It will take a shitload of time 'till things get somehow "equal" just because people are dumb!
I love women to death, but stop this!

 

[Venetia]

sexism & racism & sexual phobias still exist though :/

ok so i wasn't alive yet when women didn't have suffrage, but i still grew up in an environment where i was excluded from all kinds of things or discouraged from this-or-that simply because I didn't have a Y chromosome ... and that is infuriating sometimes!

people (in general) will react to being discriminated against by demonstrating the same exclusionary techniques wherever they can

it will only be eliminated once people are raised without any sort of exclusionary bias

read: never going to happen

 

[Twirly]

Yeah, I kinda feel you but...
But some women still bring up shit from way back, where shit with sexism was really bad, even though they werent there, which pisses me off.
and yeah, we will never get real equality because the world and its people are huge piles of shit

 

[Twirly]

ALIMONY IS NOT CHILD SUPPORT, IT IS TO RETAIN YOUR LIFESTYLE.

That's number one on my shitlist when talking about dumb feminists.
I don't want to pay shit for a bitch I don't even fuck with anymore, I want to pay for my child.
They all talk about this independent women shit and then you have bitches going "Yeah, I'm gonna get impregnanted by some (more or less) rich moron and then rip off that motherfucker!"
We basically made laws that allow this to happen, good job!

 

[Lyric]

-Why is it okay for a woman to insult a man, but a man can't insult a woman?
It's not. It's not ok for anyone to insult anyone. Doesn't matter what set up you have below the waist.

-Why is it socially acceptable for a woman to hit a man, but a man can't hit a woman?
I don't think it is. I think that when a man hits a woman or woman hits a man, it's assault.

-Why is it that men have to pay alimonies even though they aren't the provider of their ex-spouse anymore?
I personally believe that it is because women in those cases have allowed their careers to slump off with full agreement of their partners. It's hard for them to find work when they've given it up. That, or they grow accustomed to fulfilling their role at home, or have taken care of children long enough to be completely out of touch with the work force. I think men who stay at home in agreement with their wife should collect allimony should they split too.

-Do Feminists really want equality, or do they want Superiority?
I think it depends on the feminist. Some want equality. Some want superiority. Depends on the person. That's like asking if the civil rights activists wanted equality or superiority using quotas and affirmative action as your examples.