Down Syndrome - Human or something else

[mawk]

Maybe he's not impersonating you? It's common to use leetspeak as a sort of assumed accent for when you're being sarcastic or making with the parody. I don't think you have anything to do with his choice of e-dialect.

Sometimes I think you're really reaching for thing to be offended with. Calm down, cat. :\

 

[So fist]

Chief, it is parody of the glibness of your idea for the petition.   Particularly this piece stood out to me.

Though I think it would really be quite funny to see one as a pet.

You are not your ideas, chief.  I can say the idea is shitty or immature, not well thought out.  Especially if I take the time to point out why with some kind of counterpoint.  If I were to say, hey Co you're an enormous conceited dickface for saying retards should be pets.  I would definitely be flaming you.

Also how does that link even support your assertion they aren't human?  Can people born with lupus be pets or hypothyroid problems be pets too?  There is something like a one in four chance you'll be born blonde.  Does that make blondes a separate species?  Can I have a blonde pet?

 

[Samboy]

"lol's we should make tha retardz petz!11"

nobody's using leet in this topic. don't be a faggot.

Yes he is. No I'm not.

---------------

You are not your ideas, chief.  I can say the idea is shitty or immature, not well thought out.  Especially if I take the time to point out why with some kind of counterpoint.

Maybe it was just a spur of the moment comment. Maybe, unlike others, I don't have a good 10 minutes to think about the consequences before I post. Maybe I should just take my keyboard and crap all over it to stop me from typing shit. But maybe I won't.

If I were to say, hey Co you're an enormous conceited dickface for saying retards should be pets.  I would definitely be flaming you.

Nice flaming without flaming.

I'm not trying to say that it would be 'fucking hilarious and yes I totally will adopt a retard to make everyone think i'm a funny fuck'. I am thinking, or should I say was thinking that it would be funny if I saw someone on the street with a retard on a leash that I wouldn't be like 'OMG! thats human abuse!'. As would most of us on this forum. Then a minute later, I would think, 'Wait. That isn't cool.'

Kinda like the stunts on Jackass. People find them funny but wouldn't like to take part, see or even be involved in one of them.

Sorry if I have offended, but seriously, grow a pair. I was only being a dickhead.

EDIT: Only a few things annoy me on this site, CR. Basically just people finishing their sentances with ', chief' or ',skipper '. And people going 'i lke skkng deh pehnus' when we full know that I don't say, condone or speak like that.

 

[Prexus]

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[Ellie]

Why does not human = pet? And, more worryingly, why would you want a pet human? Bestiality is illegal you know, thus, if they aren't human, you wouldn't be able to have them as some sort of sex pet. Which is the only reason I can see for wanting a pet human, other than "lulz this is awesome."

And, furthermore, why does it matter if someone can be percieved as "human" or not? In the past, someone once tried to seperate "humans" into species. He called the pure ones "ayerians" (possibly spelt wrong) and purged all the impure ones. If you start calling certain people not human, despite whether it is true or not, it will lead to discrimination or worse.




Oh, and the whole "they have more chromosones" argument is absolutely utter bullshizzle. Seriously.

We have the same amount of chromosones as a potato. And as far as I am aware, I don't make good chips

 

[Anglachel]

People with Downs can still breed with people without it and produce fertile offspring. Scientifically speaking, they are still of the same species. http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2286/emotmsdc6.gif[/img]

Hate to break it to Coe and Coe:

Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/species

And its an infinitely more useful delineation than parsing minor defects or changes in genetics.

As pointed out earlier people with down's are able to breed amongst their fellow humans.  They're human.  End of discussion.  Also you're perception of down's is reflective of someone who knows very little about people with the disorder.  Most are quite high functioning and likely more mature than a pair of teenagers walking around saying, "lol's we should make tha retardz petz!11"

If you use genetics as the dividing line you can make the case to categorize women as a separate species.  Its a farcical slippery slope.  Especially since your purpose is not human = I can own one.

What I've quoted is basically what I was going to point out. If you use genetics you can probably split humans up into a few groups.  To consider someone with Downs Syndrome something other than a human is insane. Should we use purely genetics to characterize humans or should we consider than morally and ethically as well?

I think everyone who mentioned them as a pet was just making a joke.

 

[Samboy]

I think everyone who mentioned them as a pet was just making a joke.

For christs sake, yes. Fucking yes. Finally a person who understands what I've been trying to say for the last few posts.

Need evidence?

Sorry if I have offended, but seriously, grow a pair. I was only being a dickhead.

There. I said it. Again.

Case closed.

 

[Coen]

if they aren't human, you wouldn't be able to have them as some sort of sex pet. Which is the only reason I can see for wanting a pet human.

Wow... that is about the most disgusting thing i've heard all day. :dead:

I disagree with the classification of "hard question," because that implies that it's something more than a strict interpretation of loose definitions paired with a high-school "hey wouldn't it be cool if hur hur hur" attitude. You want to ask the hard questions, ask something useful like how we might deal with the population explosion and the First World's flagrant wastefulness.

Your Kinda splitting hairs aren’t you? Does how difficult I found it to ask this question really make a difference to the argument? And to answer your question just becuase i'm such a nice guy, from what i've seen earthquakes in China seem to be the way to go. :thumb:

Also (this is for everyone) In my OP I said a FRIEND thought keeping Downies as pets should be legal NOT ME…. yeah I know what you guys are thinking, it’s just a ploy to stop people bitching at me, but I’ll say the same thing I said to my friend.  I personally think Downies would make crap pets I’ve got family that work with handicaps and they may be funny/cute but I wouldn't want to be stuck looking after one, sorry to anyone who is.

Seeing Downies on leashes would be funny shit, please don’t quote me on this but are they really smart enough to care wether they’re on a leash or not? In saying this, If it was decided that Downies weren’t human being realistic I can’t see people stripping them of there rights and having them as pets, there would be public outcry and I doubt many people would want them.

I made this thread to see what other people thought, I'm still not really sure if they’re human or not. I think what people define as human differs substantially and so to prove it one way or another is difficult.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

God your ignorant.
Do yourself a favor and research Down Syndrome patients, or go actually find some and spend a few moments there.  Since, oh I dunno, the fact that many of them hold jobs such as working a cash register - which btw shows that they can at least count, to working in carpentry where they'd be allowed to use a drill, saws, and other dangerous tools - seriously - is all a factor that they are smart enough to care if they are on a leash or not.

Most have an mental retardation, true of mild (IQ 50–70) to moderate (IQ 35–50), with Mosaic Down syndrome typically being 10–30 points higher.  Now, sure 35 is low.  It is.  But it's smarter than a dog - who does care if they are on a leash or not, mine LOVE leashes and will moan and cry to have a leash put on them.  It's also smarter than cabbage, which wouldn't give two shits.

So in that rage is an IQ of 35 - 100 (including Mosaic).  100 is "Higher Average" of IQ.  85 is the lowest point in "Lower Average".

Considering you can function at an IQ of 35 enough to learn to drive a car - though not legally in most places - I'd say you're fairly much throwing around your own shit if any of this argument is meant to be serious and/or intelligent.

 

[Prexus]

Why does not human = pet? And, more worryingly, why would you want a pet human? Bestiality is illegal you know, thus, if they aren't human, you wouldn't be able to have them as some sort of sex pet. Which is the only reason I can see for wanting a pet human, other than "lulz this is awesome."

And, furthermore, why does it matter if someone can be percieved as "human" or not? In the past, someone once tried to seperate "humans" into species. He called the pure ones "ayerians" (possibly spelt wrong) and purged all the impure ones. If you start calling certain people not human, despite whether it is true or not, it will lead to discrimination or worse.




Oh, and the whole "they have more chromosones" argument is absolutely utter bullshizzle. Seriously.

We have the same amount of chromosones as a potato. And as far as I am aware, I don't make good chips

Beastiality is only illegal infront of a minor, in Canada.

 

[Sic Semper Tyranosaurus]

Beastiality is only illegal infront of a minor, in Canada.

That's... really specific. :psy:

 

[Brewmeister]

Are people with Down syndrome human? Yeah I know what you all thinking but some one has to ask the difficult questions.

Seems like a pretty simple question to me.

I was told once by a science teacher that a species is defined by its amount of chromosomes. This started a debate.

Mistake 1) You believed him!
Mistake 2) You didn't do any homework to substantiate this claim. If you're going to base an argument on a point of fact, you have to at least cite a reference that validates that fact.

A Friend of mine said he wanted to create a petition stripping downies of there rights so people could legally have them as pets.

Mistake 3) You didn't immediately tell your friend (wink, wink) that he was an asshole!
Mistake 4) You didn't present a logical, beneficial, or even socially responsible argument.

Normally a species has pairs of chromosomes downies have an odd amount. So do they still count as a separate species?

The word, "Species" implies a form of taxonomy. (Linnean Taxonomy specifically. ) If you can cite a reference that even comes close to indicating that downs presents enough apomorphic evidence to suggest separate classification...  and present a better argument than stripping people of their rights, or making them pets,
We will consider allowing this discussion to progress.

I made this thread to see what other people thought

I'm having a rough time buying that one at this point.

Be Well