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Down Syndrome - Human or something else

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Coen

Member

Are people with Down syndrome human? Yeah I know what you all thinking but some one has to ask the difficult questions.

I was told once by a science teacher that a species is defined by its amount of chromosomes this started a debate. A Friend of mine said he wanted to create a petition stripping downies of there rights so people could legally have them as pets.

The reason this argument targets downies is because they suffer from Trisomy meaning they have an extra 21st chromosome. In most cases this is because the parents were too old when they had kids or can also happen when there exposed to some chemicals and radiation.

Normally a species has pairs of chromosomes downies have an odd amount. So do they still count as a separate species?
 

Coen

Member

@ Calibre

Umm... What?

I have a tendancy to screw this kind of stuff up. Should this be in the Symposium?
 
Well that's a pretty mean thing to say IMO... Scientifically a species may be defined by it's number of chromosomes, but when it comes to common perception, whatever characteristics are most prominent determines a species! They may be mentally and sometimes physically handicapped, but they are still human for crying out loud!

I think down syndrome counts more as a human mutation than a changing of species.

(Note: I don't know anyone personally with the syndrome, but I'm sympathetic when it comes to people with diseases... Unless they deserve them.)
 
Sparx-1":2kw87a26 said:
They may be mentally and sometimes physically handicapped, but they are still human for crying out loud!

But that's the thing.  They aren't human by genetic standards, as the OP has pointed out.
 
Sic Semper Tyranosaurus":ktzoe9n8 said:
People with Downs can still breed with people without it and produce fertile offspring. Scientifically speaking, they are still of the same species. http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2286/emotmsdc6.gif[/img]

Now, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Neanderthals were able to breed with Homo Sapiens.* And weren't Neanderthals considered a seperate species from Homo Sapiens?

What about wolves and domestic dogs? They can breed. So can wild cats and housecats.

*In fact, that's one of the theories about the origins of autism and other related conditions.
 
wild cats and house cats are both feline species.
wolves and domestic dogs are both canine species.

people with down syndrome are just as much human as you or anyone else, and to suggest they be stripped or their rights and kept as pets... that's sickening.
 
Prexus":1wsqwsuk said:
wild cats and house cats are both feline species.
wolves and domestic dogs are both canine species.

people with down syndrome are just as much human as you or anyone else, and to suggest they be stripped or their rights and kept as pets... that's sickening.
but its funny & edgey rite? hurrhurrhurr  :grin: pleaseloveme
 
Prexus said:
wild cats and house cats are both feline species.
wolves and domestic dogs are both canine species.

people with down syndrome are just as much human as you or anyone else, and to suggest they be stripped or their rights and kept as pets... that's sickening.

Not stripped of rights, but really. Technically they're not humans, if they have an extra chromosome. They don't act like humans, they act more like animals. Though I think it would really be quite funny to see one as a pet.

Wild cats and house cats are still cats. But humans without down syndrome and people with down syndrome are different species. Technically.
 
Hate to break it to Coe and Coe:

Biology Dictionary Definition of Species":3frgw5wc said:
Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/species

And its an infinitely more useful delineation than parsing minor defects or changes in genetics.

As pointed out earlier people with down's are able to breed amongst their fellow humans.  They're human.  End of discussion.  Also you're perception of down's is reflective of someone who knows very little about people with the disorder.  Most are quite high functioning and likely more mature than a pair of teenagers walking around saying, "lol's we should make tha retardz petz!11"

If you use genetics as the dividing line you can make the case to categorize women as a separate species.  Its a farcical slippery slope.  Especially since your purpose is not human = I can own one.
 

mawk

Sponsor

I disagree with the classification of "hard question," because that implies that it's something more than a strict interpretation of loose definitions paired with a high-school "hey wouldn't it be cool if hur hur hur" attitude. You want to ask the hard questions, ask something useful like how we might deal with the population explosion and the First World's flagrant wastefulness.

When did we start calling single instances of genetic mutation whole new species? For all intents and purposes, people with Down syndrome are human. They look like a duck, they quack like a duck, and it's safe to assume that they were birthed by a duck. I think we might as well call them ducks, even if their beaks are a different colour.

You say "not stripped of rights," but then you immediately go on to say you'd like to see one kept as a pet. Really, you're sort of scaring me here. :x

[quote="Ñ
 
The Great Terror said:
As pointed out earlier people with down's are able to breed amongst their fellow humans.  They're human.  End of discussion.

No. If they breed with humans they still produce offspring, but that offspring has a one-in-four chance of inheriting that genetic defect that the father/mother has. It has the cabability of being a dominant genetic disease, especially if interbreeding occurs. Oh, and here's my reference because my "lol's we should make tha retardz petz!11" isn't good enough for you.

http://www.genetics.missouri.edu/Missou ... etics.html

EDIT: Also, why do you always speak in "leet" when you try to impersonate me? As well as being demeaning, it is also against the rules. Don't do it. Plz. Woops, I just did it. *hand over mouth*
 
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