Does Terrorism Constitute Torture?

[Incognitus]

Lakhdar Boumediene worked for a humanitarian relief agency - the equivalent of the Red Cross in the Middle East (the Red Crescent).

Boumediene tells ABC News that he was tortured at Guantanamo with needles, feed tubes, and being "stretched" (like the old-time rack).

More importantly, Boumediene confirms that telling the truth got him tortured more, while lying and saying what the interrogator wanted him to say got it to stop:

Boumediene said it was in his interest to lie to the interrogators, who would reward the detainees if they admitted guilt.

"If I tell my interrogator, I am from Al Qaeda, I saw Osama bin Laden, he was my boss, I help him, they will tell me, 'Oh you are a good man,'" he said. "But if I refuse ? I tell them I'm innocent, never was I terrorist, never never, they tell me. 'You are, you are not cooperating, I have to punch you.'"

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/stor ... 310&page=1

A former prisoner held at Guantanamo Bay says he was never interrogated about the reason the US said they’d arrested him for — even after seven years in captivity.

He also provided a graphic account of new elements of what may be considered “ad-lib” torture — guards inappropriately using hypodermic needles and IV tubes intended for forced feeding during hunger strikes.

He further said he was kept awake for 16 days straight — which was often done by splashing detainees eyes with cold water when they nodded off in their cell under bright lights. The account was published by ABC News.

The former detainee, Lakhdar Boumediene, is now in France with his family. He was never charged. Was it torture? an ABC News reporter asked.

“I don’t think. I’m sure,” he replied.

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/06/08/ ... -iv-tubes/

Ooooooooooooooooooohhhh
Say does tha-at star-spangled
Ba-a-an-ner ye-et wave
O'er the laaaand of the free,
And the home of the braaaaaave!

 

[rey meustrus]

Sounds like a witch hunt to me.

Hypothetical question, which has an obvious political answer (because the people that support torturing middle-eastern looking people are on the same side of politics), but should we give the same treatment to domestic right-wing terrorism, like the recently surging terrorist plots of anti-abortion groups (killing people means you lose the right to call yourselves 'pro-life'), as we do to Islamic terrorists? Maybe if we waterboard Scott Roeder, he'll tell us which of his buddies are planning on terrorizing any other abortion providers, or more sickeningly, their patients.

 

[Incognitus]

In potentially another blow to advocates of torture and harsh interrogation, transcripts released yesterday show that alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed says he made up stories to appease his interrogators.

”I make up stories,” Mohammed is quoted as saying in his 2007 Gitmo hearing. The alleged 9/11 plotter claimed to have taken part in at least 29 terrorist plots.

Mohammed says he told his questioners he didn’t know the location of Osama Bin Laden, and was tortured as a result.

“”Where is he? I don’t know,” Mohammed said. ‘Then he torture me. Then I said, ‘Yes, he is in this area or this is al Qaeda which I don’t know him.’ I said no, they torture me.’”

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/06/16/ ... p-stories/

KSM received the same treatment as Lakhdar Boumediene - what makes either of them reliable?

 

[Gray]

The torture of a few scumbags to save possibley thousands of lives? The answer is obvious.

If they didn't know anything? Tough. They're terrorists.

... Sorry, there's no empathy in me for these people.

Same here.

 

[Incognitus]

The torture of a few scumbags to save possibley thousands of lives? The answer is obvious.

If they didn't know anything? Tough. They're terrorists.

... Sorry, there's no empathy in me for these people.

Same here.

Should criminals be treated in the same way - because they're criminals?

 

[Gray]

Even if it saves only a couple of people's lives it's worth torturing a crinimal of any level, from a mugger to a full blown terrorist.

 

[Incognitus]

Even if it saves only a couple of people's lives it's worth torturing a crinimal of any level, from a mugger to a full blown terrorist.

How do you know they have something worth knowing, and how do you know when they have given you what they know?

 

[Gray]

I'd think you'd know for definate before hand before torturing someone. Say detectives have linked crinimal x to big bad gang y and he's probably and rank z.

You don't really know the limits of what they know, but you can have an educated guess, and even if they have more information, you can try to get it at a later date, during their sentance.

 

[Vadon]

I'd think you'd know for definate before hand before torturing someone. Say detectives have linked crinimal x to big bad gang y and he's probably and rank z.

You don't really know the limits of what they know, but you can have an educated guess, and even if they have more information, you can try to get it at a later date, during their sentance.

Although I fundamentally disagree with you on just about everything as I find torture unconscionable, the only thing I'll contest for now is getting more information during their sentence. As it stands, the people who are tortured are not being 'sentenced.' These folks are being detained without the writ of habeas corpus or other civil liberties like being able to contest their detention. It puts the US in a sticky-wicket once you consider the rabble-rousing we've undertaken when our journalists are jailed in other nations. (Iran and North Korea) There is a compelling argument to be made that the US has no right to complain about the jailing of US nationals in other nations because we're willing to kidnap, torture, and ship off people from other nations without trial. At least in these other nations our folks received a trial, even if unfair and a farce.

 

[Marc1k1]

Recently it was released that the U.S. government used torture to obtain information from "terrorists". Torture was approved by President Bush while he was in office, and yet on many occasions he lied and said that we do not torture.

Techniques such as water boarding, sleep deprivation, and long time standing were used to attain information about Al Qaeda's plans or whereabouts. Most of the people that were tortured knew little to no information.

Do you think the government has the power to do this? And even if they do, Is it right?

Yeah, They have the power to and I accept that however bush it would appear did not use it responsibly or resonably it should be a last resort if being used and even thens its plan B. he he.. plan b... plan bush maybe :P Well yeah

Its not right and if the people being tortuerd dont know the information its redicoluse and out of order however I know some people would say "They are terroist! they deserve it" when you say that please do remember its not all of there faults because they may have been indoctrinated when growing up who knows! but im not justifiying there actions punishment for terroism should be being sent to prison not torture or we just sink as low as they do.

SO plain and simple I think its wrong.

 

[Gray]

Yeah, They have the power to and I accept that however bush it would appear did not use it responsibly or resonably it should be a last resort if being used and even thens its plan B. he he.. plan b... plan bush maybe :P Well yeah

Its not right and if the people being tortuerd dont know the information its redicoluse and out of order however I know some people would say "They are terroist! they deserve it" when you say that please do remember its not all of there faults because they may have been indoctrinated when growing up who knows! but im not justifiying there actions punishment for terroism should be being sent to prison not torture or we just sink as low as they do.

SO plain and simple I think its wrong.

I was introduced to religion when I was young as well, however, I didn't follow it.

So you're saying that torture is on the same level as mass murder? We wouldn't be on the same level as would be. Not near it.

 

[Gen0cide_]

to be fair, bush really just strikes me as the figurehead in all this. he was surrounded from the start with incompetent informants and advisors pushing their own secret agendas. when you got people like rumsfeld starting out their writings to the president with bible verses in favour of war, you really can't blame the guy all the way.

I mean it's also the president's business not to be dumb and therefore putty in the hands of anyone with an agenda, but I definitely wouldn't call the poor guy evil.

You say that as if he didn't paraphrase Hitler himself. His Granddaddy was a banker that gave Germany all their war money for goodness sake. Plus he went to war with Iraq when he knew full well OBL was in Afghanistan. I bet 90% of the terrorist threat we have now, in the US and UK, wouldn't be there if we hadn't gone and invaded a country just because there was about 100 potential terrorists in it.

 

[Gulch666]

you know, i think torturing those poor people over there, which i would say in like 99.9% of the cases they dont know a damn thing is pretty fucked up.

you realize that only about 5000 people in the last 20 years have died from non-western "terrorist" attacks worldwide right? and that the total deaths of iraqi citizens from our little bussiness venture over there is like 2.1 million? hell in 2005 278.9 out of 100k people died from heart disease on average. 324.7 for white males.

on a side note, if you subtract the 3000 or so deaths linked to 9/11, which personally i would, that shit was an inside job, that leaves us with 2000 deaths from "terrorists". and for those of you who think "oh, our government wouldnt do that to its own citizens" you need to take a closer more open minded look at history of why the US joined (or started) wars. few topics to look into

ww1, RMS Lucitania, (2000ish deaths)

ww2, pearl harbor, F.D.R, his family ties(bankers), (2350 deaths)

vietnam, staged ship attack, gulf of tonkin

desert storm, bush family ties, oil etc

this is just for fun really http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat8.htm

over 11k deaths from 1900-1912, from....tigers, yes the jungle cat, in British administered India.

terrorists are really quite a small threat globally, and its just something that's been hyped up by the media, who is controlled by big business and the bank, who in turn control our governments and make them do things to make them more money. if us western civilized people would just leave them the fuck alone they would have much less to hate us for.

i dont buy into all the conspiracy nonsense (altho i quite a bit of it to be pretty spot on), but it is kind of a wake-up call as to the death and injustice western civilization has put hundreds of millions of people thru, things youll never know about unless you look for other sources of information other than the spoon-fed fake news we see on TV.

anyway, im done ranting. im an american, im proud to be an american, i love my counrty, i just hate the ones who run it. because theyre the real terrorists

 

[mawk]

You say that as if he didn't paraphrase Hitler himself. His Granddaddy was a banker that gave Germany all their war money for goodness sake.

have you maybe heard of godwin's law