Does a "Mercy Killing" Constitute Murder..?

[sixtyandaquarter]

The idea has been around for a long time, if you cause the death of someone else it is murder. Courts and society have separated murder into various degrees, here in the U.S. for example there are more than one degrees for murder alone.

Murder one, murder in the first degree, a deliberate and planned execution of someone's life. To go and decide, ahead of time, to kill someone. To execute a plan, and bring that person's life to an end. A premeditated and clear headed decision, that is with one's own faculties, to kill. While convoluted by state laws, religious laws, and all sorts of other laws around the world, it all boils down to the death of one person, by the willful and purposeful hand of another.

Now there's second degree murder, which is with malice - but more of a spur of the moment deal. You went not just to harm someone, but to kill them, without the need of a plan. You got angry, thought for a moment - hey, sounded like a good idea, you executed them, and boom. End of story.

And just so no one get's confused - cause I've seen it, manslaughter is separated from murder by the absence of both MALICE and PLANNING. You can not decide to kill someone, justify it without malice sincerely, and call it manslaughter - it doesn't work that way.

The question is, is a mercy killing murder?

But let's decide what a "mercy killing" is. A mercy killing is the act of ending's one life, in the hopes of putting to end a suffering, that is believed to untreatable and never ending, that would make life cruel. The idea being, someone in such a state that being forced to live itself would be a cruel and unusual punishment. It is euthanasia.

There's degrees here to.Voluntary Euthanasia, which is when euthanasia has informed consent from the patient. Not to be confused with "involuntary euthanasia", which is when the informed consent of the patient is not given. This is like vet's who put animals too sleep - the animal didn't understand, and agree, so that would be involuntary euthanasia. Much like an "angel of mercy/death" killer, or the family and doctors who "pull the plug" on coma patients. Dr. Kevorkian on the other hand, however, would be voluntary euthanasia, since the patience and he had an understand and the same goal.


Hell, some even - similar to the stated "angel of mercy/death", that what they were doing was for the good of the patient, the family - and society. By killing criminals, similar to the death penalty, and claimed it as a mercy killing.




It's been argued, non stop over time. What constitutes MURDER and what constitutes MERCY.

Assuming the following examples all ended the death of the theoretical patient by another:
If a man is sick, but can still live his life with drugs and treatment - is it murder?
If the drugs were against his faith, or made him ill - is it murder?
Is it just his shame and pride that should die, to let him live his life?

If a woman is clinically brain dead, and her family wish to move on - is it murder?
What if they simply can't afford to keep her alive?

If a dog has rabies, and is a danger - is it murder?
What about a dog who has killed?
What about a human who has?

If a man is in constant pain, is it murder?
If a man is paralyzed from the neck down, and must live off others?
What if he is unable to communicate - his brain lives but his body is unresponsive?

When is mercy an acceptable reason to end a life? And when is it murder?

 

[Dissonance]

I dunno.

But it shouldn't be punishable.

 

[FlippyD]

I dunno, I think it's reasonable when you have permission and murder when you don't. If the subject is in pain and unable to recover or communicate then I'd say it's up to the doctor's judgement or if the family says flush 'im.

 

[006]

I think it's up to the person who's in pain or if he/she cannot communicate(Such as coma), his/her family should then have the choice. I don't think anyone really has the right to choose whether the person lives or not, apart from his/her family, or themselves. Sorry if I didn't word that too well.

 

[Erichermit]

I think that if someone is in pain and wish to die, we have no right to prevent them. It's their life and they can do whatever they want with it.

Granted, I think that it should be proven that they are in excruciating pain or a state where recovery is hopeless. Teenagers who want to be euthanized because they just got dumped obviously should be turned down.

 

[___]

People own their own body, they have the right to do whatever they want to it - either on their own or by giving informed consent to another. The only time I care in the least about this subject is when there is good evidence that either consent wasn't given or the patient was not competent to give consent. I guess you can argue that anyone who wants to commit suicide is not in a right state of mind and therefore cannot be competent to consent to being killed, but that's pretty narrow minded.

 

[Despain]

pulling the plug on someone is NOT murder end of story.

i was thinking that this would be an ASSISTING SUICIDE (in scopes beyond doctors/patients etc) thread because that topic is much more interesting and much more debateable.

 

[FlippyD]

Well, suicide is caused by depression, which is a mental illness. It's not that they're not competent to consent to being killed, it's that they're under the delusion that anything they do will ultimately fail, or that life isn't worth living or that there's nothing to do to help their current situation. These are people who feel the need to kill themselves because they're under the impression that their current circumstances can never be corrected, thus why continue.

Normally I'd agree with the notion that it's there body and if they want to go let them go, and if they're right no one will give a shit if they do. It's not an issue of competence, but of disillusionment brought on usually by a spur of the moment judgement and a lack of hypothalamal regulation.

 

[Despain]

depression is a mental illness

and one of the cures is death. i have no problem with people who want to kill themselves as long as its genuine (when they're depressed yes i consider that to be genuine most of the time, i mean the whiny emo kids are just pussies)

 

[FlippyD]

Well, how about this:

You can kill yourself because you're depressed so long as you can pay the medical bill for the procedure, and for your own coffin/grave/cremation/whatever.

That should keep whiny teenagers from doing it for stupid reasons, whereas people who have thought about it a lot, and came to the decision after lots of rationalization can proceed without other folks getting into their business.

 

[Zekallinos]

It depends what kind of depression, some being more of a burnout or whatnot. It is always better to let it be analyzed first by an expert, since it can be very easily mistakable. Though I should clarify. And there are many people who have been able to overcome these with good discipline (and external help), and might as well try first.

One thing that does annoy me, though, is when the experts are 100% positive there is no hope for a patient other then survival-trough-machine and they've been in the coma for like 5-10 years. At one point, once you are just certain it's no longer a life for them, yet some families insist on draining the healthcare money keep them in the hospital bed (in countries where government pays, at least).

 

[Fayte]

i think that suicide is for pussies, honestly.

Seriously though, what can be so bad that it would make you take your own life? If your going through some really tough times, man up (or woMAN up) and just keep moving forward, because if you kill yourself you never know how life could be after you've gotten passed whatever bullshit you are/were going through.

Oh, and to be on topic:

I don't think pulling the plug on someone is murder at all because, well, honestly even if i was set on fire and was going to look disfigured for the rest of my life, i wouldn't mind to much if someone ended me.

 

[FlippyD]

Clinical depression sidenote:

Spoiler

It's not always so simple as someone going through a bad time. In real cases of depression (not made up fantasy emo bullshit Susie wouldn't give me a BJ after the dance shithole thinking) the patient is experiencing depression due to a chemical imbalance coupled with a series of events that causes the patient to believe that anything and everything he or she has done is met with failure. It's an irrationality, and most of the time the sufferer's are aware it's an irrationality, but they can't muscle through it and shake the feeling that everything is hopeless.

I know several people with actual depression, and though telling the average well-off but down-on-his-luck person who thinks they're depressed because they read about it on Wikipedia to suck it up can help, telling someone with actual depression that "it's easy, stop being emo" just discourages them more. These are people who need medical treatment and support.

Another problem researchers have found is that some people with depression might have tried suicide and failed, thus justifying in their mind the notion that the universe is out to kerfutz them. Then, if you treat them for depression and they get just a little more self-esteem they'll still be depressed, but will have the confidence to try suicide. Depression is a very serious illness that stupid people on the internet and lazy psychiatrists have blown up into a laughable thing that "anyone can get", and "isn't a big deal."

 

[___]

I think you have to temper a diagnosis of depression with a view of circumstance the way you do with any other mental illness diagnosis. Obviously a person who is doomed to die, in great pain and denied all the functions and benefits of being an independent human being is depressed naturally and for a good reason. Depression should only be considered an illness when it is chronic, extreme and not justified by the subject's circumstances.

 

[FlippyD]

I'd say that's someone who's depressed, but does not have depression.

It's like someone with a runny nose and a cough could have a cold... Or the flu, or nasal polyps, HIV, etc. I'm talking about manic or clinical depression, a physical imbalance of the neural network and hypothalamus. A man with broken legs, one eye and a missile through his chest isn't depressed because of an irrational mind, he's depressed because he's fucked up.

 

[___]

So basically, we agree ; )

 

[FlippyD]

Yeah, I mostly like to hear myself type.

 

[DeM0nFiRe]

If the patient in question wants their life to be ended, then it is called assisted suicide. I am not sure where exactly that is legal, but I know it is in some places. If you are talking about ending a patient's life because a third party thinks the patient is in too much suffering, even if the patient can't communicate right at that moment, they would have had to have signed a DNR for it to be alright. I hope you are not talking about killing someone who is suffering even if they can still communicate. That is just sick 0_0

 

[ultimaodin]

Volantary euthanasia I fine to be acceptable. For instance my mum has told me if she is to be left on a machine with out any ability to communicate she would want the plug pulled.
Really this is a debate that will never end. You can never say it is acceptable or non-acceptable as it would vary from case to case.

I suffer a interium depression. I can come at any moment without even reason. I have to take Hypericum daily. If I were the one in the shoes of the dying it probably would be a case of mebeing depressed if I asked however because that person would be acting under my command it should not be punishable.

Involantry is a different story, how could you possibly know that they wouldn't recver and that's what they truely want. Prior permission I think is justifiable but without it I would call it a random act of manslaughter.

I think vets and farmers only get away with involuntary is because what they "put out of misery" cannot speak inglih and so give their consent or permission.

Anyway it's 12:15am here and I am tired. Thinking at this time is a really bad idea! Still the only time I have most the time.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

I suffer a interium depression. I can come at any moment without even reason. I have to take Hypericum daily. If I were the one in the shoes of the dying it probably would be a case of mebeing depressed if I asked however because that person would be acting under my command it should not be punishable.

Ah-ah-ah... no, no- it really isn't.

Let's go with the doctor, nurse, or care taker for example...
If you are clinically depressed enough to need medication for it, and let's say chemical react causing a severe bout of depression that causes you to believe things are so bad, it is the Doctor's DUTY to understand that, and try to fix that problem BEFORE helping you commit suicide.  They simply don't do what you command, and if they did - fuck yeah, that's all their fault.  This goes for the nurse and care taker, to get you to a doctor so they can do your duty and find what's wrong with you.

I personally don't believe that wanting to kill yourself has to equal depression.
So I can say that someone who wants to die can be clearly thinking in full logical faculties.
The problem is some people who want to kill themselves are depressed and that can be treated, and they can become happy again (see another long argument, force the pill not the solution - right?)

Friends and family killing you because you said, same thing.  They shouldn't kill you at all, all killings should take place at hospitals for the witnesses.  I'm dead serious, we should have a murder wing.  This way someone can't just say that they killed someone because they wanted them too, not over the inheritance.  The Devil Told Me To excuse will never fly in any court, and the day it does is the day I find Hoffa's body.

Involantry is a different story, how could you possibly know that they wouldn't recver and that's what they truely want. Prior permission I think is justifiable but without it I would call it a random act of manslaughter.

I think vets and farmers only get away with involuntary is because what they "put out of misery" cannot speak inglih and so give their consent or permission.

Vet's and farmers get away with it because dogs and cows aren't people.

People who cannot speak, or speak the language of the doctors CAN NOT be put down simply because they couldn't said "Don't kill me please".  What they "put out of misery" is an animal who is not truly sentient, has no awareness of self, and is incapable of doing anything in their life without being in that state of... what?  Pain or drugged up.

People in deep brain damaged comas can NOT get better.  The brain is gone.  It's destroyed.  It will never work again.  That person, and what they wanted... yeah, that's not here any more.  I'm not going to care what someone wanted, when they aren't alive.You aren't keeping them ALIVE, you're keeping their heart beating.  There's a difference.  One is worth while, and the other is worth only bills.

Usually those are the only cases that come up when discussing involuntary euthanasia.  Coma victims with low or no actual usable brain & animals, neither of which can even have an opinion, let alone voice one.  Terri Schiavo in 2004 couldn't tell you want she wanted, even if you told her first.