Deadly Sin 2: Shining Faith

[Star]

I've never heard of Deadly Sin 1, so I wouldn't want to play it without playing the first one. Well actually I have played a lot of 2nd games. Like I played Star Ocean 2 before Star Ocean 1 and so forth. So maybe I wouldn't care.

First off the best thing about this game is the pretty artwork of the characters and the cool animations the characters do during battle.

The things that make this game not worth 20 dollars is standard RTP sounds, windowskins and tilesets. And you panorama's kill me. Especially the one in the beginning of the game which makes no sense. The pillars beneath it leading to nowhere make even less sense.

Also walking diagonal should use a different eight directional graphic. "The Quarter View" I major facepalm'd when I saw characters skate to the upper left, lower left, upper right and lower right. Also your birds and butterflies fly a little slow and retarded. It's kinda like they hover in slow motion.

There's a lack of a decent opening to the game before the titlescreen. Sure any game not charging 20 dollars would be fine, but I hold you up to the highest expectations.

I basically stopped playing after I hit the world map. Default World maps can ruin gaming experience for me, unless it has custom and unique graphics.

Your battlers need spicing up. I think that was already mentioned.

The guy with the big sword and black hair, I forgot his name, reminds me of Guts from Berserk

I'm gonna say this game is okay for an RM game. I'd have so many good things to say about it. As a commercial game, this game is not.

 

[harmonic]

Incidentally, harmonic, have you heard of Aveyond? It's pretty well-known around RPG Maker sites as being pretty much the biggest RPG Maker commercial success- and a pile of crap. It has a much less promising demo than yours, and is inferior in pretty much every way. But it is well marketed, and well priced. Apparently there are five of them now!

Anyway, they cost $7(Well at least the first one does. From memory it used to be $10). So basically, why they sell is, they're cheap, and they're advertised through a bigger site(bigfishgames.com). My suggestions? Bump down your prices and find a reputable site that wants to take your product. Anyone that would want to take on Aveyond would surely want Deadly Sin(but there are other factors to these things besides quality unfortunately).

One last thing- and this is pretty damn minor - having this as a sequel might make people think "well, if I haven't played the first, why play this one?" which means they'll either look past it, or try the first one, which you admit isn't as good, and base their opinions off that. My suggestion is that rather than having this as Deadly Sin 2, have it just as Deadly Sin - Shining Faith or similar. But it's nothing major.

Have I heard of Aveyond? Amanda and I communicate regularly and she's a stand up gal. For your information, Aveyond's original price was 19.95. It's a very old game. Her current series of Aveyond games have been smaller chapters, parts of a larger whole. The reason she lowered the price is because her games are all released on Big Fish Games now, whose games all cost 6.99. That and her games have been around for quite a long time. Some developers try to get away with merely cutting up one large game, that would normally sell for 15 or 20, into 4 chapters, sell it for 12, so they can sell it 4 times. The prevailing opinion of Aveyond in the RPGmaker community is that it's a crappy game, but Amanda is certainly not using the aforementioned tactic. I've been around the RM community for about 10 years, I'm no stranger to any of this. This thread is not built with the intention to sell, as I understand the dynamics of the RM community quite well, as I have already stated in the original post. The game is already on "more reputable sites" and is in the process of being on many more.

Your point about the sequel thing is well-taken, and I am trying to emphasize that this is not an actual sequel and the first game can be ignored.

 

[Pokémaniac]

Very well. It seems you do know your stuff. Out of curiosity, how is this going for you, commercially?

 

[mawk]

this is looking pretty alright, man. I've never been a fan of vx's map tiles, but it looks like a lot of work has gone into the other stuff. whatever I say just based on the screenshots and description is gonna sound pretty weak, though, so I'll get back to you once I've played the demo.

metatron, chill. you're seventeen. you also don't have a previous commercial game under your belt. weighing everything, I'd say he probably knows at least a little about commercial dynamics for RPG Maker games! at least, more than you're posing for.

 

[harmonic]

Poke: Well it's only been a few days, but not bad so far.

Kyp: It's fine, I expect bonus criticism for going commercial

 

[BlueScope]

So, you're actually sitting on a finished game here that isn't Aveyond "rpg-maker-sample-game". I also like that it's actually a RMVX game, which is a far too less used platform compared to RMXP ^^ You said you're expecting bonus criticism, which is good for you, but can backfire on me if you expect me to tear it apart... so please, when you read through what I have to say, consider it constructive criticism.

Well, let's see... visuals first, as that's the least important thing :p I can definately see you put some effort into that, however I also clearly see that there was some economy in your head while working, especially apparent on the ground-to-cliff-transition in that overly green screenshot. There's also a few typography things that I wouldn't have kept that way, specifically the variance in gray value in the equipment menu (obviously, your item names are too long), wrong use of typography color (blue on blue background, blue in the battle status windows, making it hard to read both the text and the value - you should've drawn smaller text here that fits above the bars, in white, which gets you the same 'inferior to the value' effect), as well as the yellow text on the character portrait on the window on the background is too much... which you realize by making me write a sentence like this :P I think you (or whoever did the scripting part) was trying to stick to what RMVX supplies you with, with all the blue names and white values all over the place.

As for overall design, I agree with a fellow hobby game design theoretician that they seem to be stereotypical: Each of them seems to be a generic RPG-esque person without much depth to them (to quote him: "... the third guy is the bishounen mage thinking he's always right about everything" :p ). Now we could be horribly wrong with that, but considering you probably put efficiency and economy first, it seems very plausible to me.

Well, then there's your gameplay trailer, and I gotta say I got more un-impressed than impressed actually. Don't get me wrong here, I like some of the ideas that you included (such as the monster trigger... very potent idea right there, while I completely disapprove of the generic crystal as trigger sprite), but in general, it seems like a mixture of professional games: The CTB display has been copied a million times, a 'threat' system is what most turn-based battle systems have nowadays that prove to be dynamic instead of just random, and the weapon upgrade system seems to be taken straight from Champions: Return to Arms on the PS2 (I like the system very much... but still). While copying the one or other thing sure isn't bad, I simply miss the unique features I'd like to see. So yeah, I'm sorry if you weren't aware of some of these and therefore don't get the credit you'd deserve for inventing any of these, but the fact stands that for me, there's not too much unique-ness in that game I can tell on. Please feel invited to correct me here ^^

As for your options menu... being a game designer that likes to step out of bounds, I don't like seeing stuff like a difficulty control in there. An excellent RPG will manage to challenge all grades of players by providing different challenges at different points of the game, along with a smart learning curve. If you need a player to be a veteran at RPGs to get the most out of your game, you failed in designing the game. If you get amateur players to put it aside because it's too difficult, you failed at designing the game. This might sound harsh, but it's my opinion of it... feel free to convince me otherwise, as I'm interested in why you decided to include a feature like that.

So what's there to say other than that... you want 16 Euro something for your game from me. People in this thread were complaining about that, but I say 16 bucks isn't much for a game that entertains you for 30 hours. I spend more than that on an evening of playing pool including a few drinks (non-alcoholic), and that lasts for two hours or something. 16 bucks also don't afford me much more than a quarter fuel tank, which is about what I need in three days. Assuming I play your game for 10 hours a day and therefore don't drive anywhere, I basically get the game for free. :haha:
While all of that is to be taken with a grain of salt, I don't usually differ between indie game and professional game. After all, the entertainment value is important, not who made a game, and honestly, it's not like we're talking about buying a Nissan or a Porsche, we're talking about 16 bucks. Wheather I spend them now or not, tomorrow I won't care anymore.

Overall, I'm glad there's still uprising game designers on the commercial branch of RPG Maker communities, and I'm glad not to see another Aveyond sample-esque game. You put effort into it, which is clearly visible, however it lacks on visual design and consistency, as well as unique features. All in all, I'm positively surprised and am clearly encouraging you to keep working on this, however, it's not quite at a level I'd value as a quality game that has some spirit put into. Effort definately, but you only sweat for this, not bleed ^^

 

[OrbitDuke]

I got about 5 hours out of VVVVVV and I payed like, 15 dollars for it?
19.99 for 30 hours, if it's good, is worth it. I'll check this out a bit more before I commit to a purchase though.
I brought of VVVVVV because it's an example of a 'indie game' that is worth every damn penny and more. Good games should cost money if thats what the author wants. If the quality is worth money, then money should be paid.

 

[harmonic]

To be fair, I didn't claim to have invented item enhancements, threat, or CT-based turns, I merely pointed out that as far as RPGmaker games go, those systems are pretty unique. Moreover, the augment system and the battle mechanics (that depart from the default RM mechanics) are what enhance the gameplay in my opinion. Most of my recent RPG experience comes from WoW, frankly, and I have great respect for the gameplay mechanics they've implemented. It's merely a "these features need to be highlighted" thing.

As far as the difficulty slider, that was totally my choice. Already, people are saying that normal difficulty is pretty much dead-on to what they want, which is good, since DS1 was too difficult for a "mass audience." However, much of the reason I make games is so I can PLAY them! Therefore, I wanted a hard difficulty that would push the extremes of the party's capabilities, which I find way more fun as a player. I also feel like the storyline is much better implemented in this game, so I wanted everyone who played it to be able to beat the game without too much trouble, so I included an easy difficulty for extreme cases.

The only thing you said that I strongly disagree with is the stereotyping of the characters. The bishounen guy is not anything like what you described. :grin:

As far as sweat versus bleed, your point is well-taken, but it should be known that I bled quite a bit of money hiring people! :haha: Also, as far as the soundtrack, I bled and bled and bled. Soundtracks are a tremendous drain on the creative energies, and I lost much sleep and much weight trying to get the music written. The development cycle was about 10 months long, without any breaks. I cannot say that I purposely skimped on any aspect of the development, with the possible exception of commissioning custom tilesets, which would increase the budget dramatically, and I wasn't willing to do that. That said, I am obviously better at some things and worse at other things, as per usual, so that may come off as more or less effort. However, your criticism is indeed constructive and warranted, and more feedback can only serve to help me in the future.

 

[BlueScope]

As for the characters, I figured it might not be directly on the spot, especially for the quote XD They still have a somewhat generic look to them though that looks taken out of a 90's book of How To Design RPG Characters For Dummies, if you get me there (which obviously can't be too wrong, as the 90's kicked ass RPG-wise... they just seem to lack that certain uniqueness. Now of course, that's also hard to judge without actually playing through it, so I wanna point out I was merely saying what was on my mind, not trying to judge ^^ )

And well, regarding the difficulty slider... you have about the same idea I have when it comes to addressing all audiences, however I still think a slider (well, more like choice box here) is the easy way out. Making optional paths for experienced players (that will definately get rewarded by equally strong, but different equipment or so, as rewarding them with stronger items will turn people off who won't be able to get there) is a good way to make people decide in the game how they want to play. Of course, they need to know what they're getting themselves into, and maybe need the option to retreat back to the generic route. A very good example on that, while not being an RPG (but with an easily transferable concept), is Lylat Wars on the N64.
As for players who don't make it through the regular difficulty (which, as you stated should be the exception), include a help feature instead of an easy difficulty. This could be an arcade fighter-like game-over-screen that lets you choose between different options to make the current battle easier by reducing the enemies HP, for example. Also, a "guide" feature as Super Mario Galaxy 2 has it is imagineable, especially for puzzles or the like, where switching values won't get you much.
Think outside the box and find what's suitable for your game, as that's what makes a game come to life - your player will feel "home".

What I totally forgot to mention in here is that I'm impressed by the payment system you included. It's a very secure and accessable system that allows me for once to order something without a credit card, which is rarer than all of you credit card and paypal people can imagine :p I like!

Keep up the good work.

 

[friend]

Your battler sprites look very nice, its better than sideview!

Though I would like to try your demo, but can you at least make it stop at a certain point? 1 hour time trial takes away from the experience as I would rush through the demo, not appreciating the atmosphere or dialogue.

 

[harmonic]

First 30, now it's 65?

It is $19.95.

 

[Kav]

First 30, now it's 65?

It is $19.95.

I think they're converting from USD to their local currency.

 

[Pokémaniac]

Actually I just misread. =P

In my currency it's $25.

 

[OrbitDuke]

I will say this, after some thought.
Game is pretty impressive looking, but I'd be more willing to shell out a few hours of my wages if everything was 100 percent custom. I know, I know, RTP is allowed for commercial games, but it's just my thought and feeling.

 

[cheesepizza]

As far as the difficulty slider, that was totally my choice. Already, people are saying that normal difficulty is pretty much dead-on to what they want, which is good, since DS1 was too difficult for a "mass audience." However, much of the reason I make games is so I can PLAY them! Therefore, I wanted a hard difficulty that would push the extremes of the party's capabilities, which I find way more fun as a player. I also feel like the storyline is much better implemented in this game, so I wanted everyone who played it to be able to beat the game without too much trouble, so I included an easy difficulty for extreme cases.

:haha: Also, as far as the soundtrack, I bled and bled and bled. Soundtracks are a tremendous drain on the creative energies, and I lost much sleep and much weight trying to get the music written. The development cycle was about 10 months long, without any breaks. .

Hi there. English is not my 1st language , so i hope u can understand what i am saying.
i tried ds 1 before, and ya i really hated the last 2 battle,is good to know you improve the difficulty for 'mass audience'.


As for ds2, my impression of it in term of story and battle,it's way better then ds 1. (To be honest i dun really like or been hook by the story in ds1 )

The battle system in ds2 have animated battler and the battle feel more 'smooth'. For more improvement wise, i guess you may plan on making animated ver for enemy for next game.

The music soundtrack-
overall Music in ds 1 and 2 is really great and professional.(no complain on it)
thats quite some effort there, is not easy to make game and music.
But u did it.

As for graphic, the 'tileset' or resource u use is more or less same as ds1.(probably in other commercial rpgmaker game too)
Like some mention it will be great if u use custom tile/graphic.
So if u plan on making next game, i will advise to use some nice custom graphic.


Lastly for the game price, i think is more exp then the 1st 1 right?if u making the next game. please dun raise the price anymore :haha:

 

[friend]

jsyk, our hourly wage is 5 MYR.

Your game costs 65 MYR.

Do the math, its not worth it for us Asians.

But thats not to worry because it seems you are tapping into the western market, not the eastern.

 

[cheesepizza]

jsyk, our hourly wage is 5 MYR.

Your game costs 65 MYR.

Do the math, its not worth it for us Asians.

But thats not to worry because it seems you are tapping into the western market, not the eastern.

I understand how u feel .
But Topic starter spent at least 1 year or more to make his game,being a game designer need to eat and sleep too. (During this period of time he earn nothing)

So $20 usd or 65 myr for a nice game is ok and acceptable.(Although i can see most people budget for indie rpgmaker game is around $10 usd)

Lastly to be honest, most commercial indie rpgmaker game are nowhere fun and great then ds2.

So i will say if u guys got enough $ to spent or use, u can support ds2.

 

[harmonic]

Thanks for the comments, Cheese Yeah most of us use those tilesets... it's a huge investment of time/money to get all custom tiles.

 

[friend]

Lastly to be honest, most commercial indie rpgmaker game are nowhere fun and great then ds2.

Well then, you MAY be right ( though its a very small chance ) but I'll still buy a cheaper professional game.

 

[Nolund]

I will say this, after some thought.
Game is pretty impressive looking, but I'd be more willing to shell out a few hours of my wages if everything was 100 percent custom. I know, I know, RTP is allowed for commercial games, but it's just my thought and feeling.

This.

Now, I don't want to knock on harmonic's game, since I never played it, so I don't know how good it is. However, for $20 I would expect a lot, especially considering this is an RM title. Not only do you need to compete with the rest of the RM community (and there are some very good games that are free), but you're also competing against top end commercial products, and personally, I don't think the market is there for 2D games at $20, considering there is a large number of people who just download GBA roms, or would rather spend $20 on discounted games at GameStop.

To be totally honest, if I was going to buy a RM game for over $10, it would definitely have to be 100% custom graphics.

Granted, since this is a sequel (I say sequel since it's second in a series...I know there is no ties to the previous game), I'm assuming there was a large enough market for the first game to make a second. I'm speaking from personal taste.