Children, Religion, Deception...

[Xilef]

An interesting blog article I stumbled upon:

Children, religions, and deception
Posted: Tuesday, September 27th, 2005 at 2:19am

If a seven-year-old child, not a close acquaintance, asks you whether you believe in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy, do you tell them the truth?

(I am assuming you do not, in fact, believe in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy)

Maybe you say you do. Maybe you find it a harmless lie about a not-particularly-relevant part of the world, and there is no hurry for the child to know the truth. I might. I don't know.

How about if the little child asks you something a bit more relevant: whether you believe in God? And it so happens that you don't?

I had to answer that question for myself this afternoon. A co-worker's daughter was at our office waiting for him to finish. She was horsing around and asking questions, and this one came out of her.

I hesitated briefly, then said "no, I don't." She giggled, asked "really?" and then said I was weird, and that she was certainly determined to believe in him. She then proceeded to horse around some more. I doubt that the experience left her psyche particularly scarred.

Why did I hesitate? I was wondering whether something obligated me to lie to her or refuse to answer the question. By statistics, she is probably being raised believing in God. Am I improperly meddling in her parents' approach to her upbringing, by telling her truthfully what I believe? Am I giving her trouble? Thoughts too hard to deal with? Should I make a best guess at what her parents want her to believe, and play along with that?

Let's look at it differently: say I was Jewish, and she asked whether I believed in Jesus Christ being God's son and part of a Holy Trinity. If I went along with her religion's version of the world, or carefully avoided letting her know that my version was different, wouldn't I be belittling my faith, implicitly accepting the idea that my religion's version of the world was somehow inferior or undesirable or shameful, its existence an inconvenience that shouldn't be inflicted on such a little child? Expecting a Jew to do this would be quickly found rather unreasonable, wouldn't you say?

Well, as it happens, my religion is not Judaism, it is atheism. The version of the world I believe in does not contain a god. Is this religion inferior and undesirable? Should I be expected to hide it from children who ask? Should I be ashamed of it?

Apparently, to some extent, I still am. I did hesitate, wondering whether telling the truth would be offensive or wrong somehow.

In my society, one is "supposed to be" a Christian. But we are fairly lax about this, thankfully. I do not feel it too often. Not too many years ago, someone close to me heard me say something in which my atheism was implicit, and asked "Wait, you don't believe in God?" in a bit of a shocked tone. Wide-eyed, I said "well, no." I was quite surprised; I had not expected this to be news to anyone close to me. This person said "oh well, you'll grow up out of it."

Whaaat?

Remind me to be more respectful of other people's views.

(And don't bring up astrology here. I mean reasonable views. :-? )

But putting aside my own right to feel unashamed of my world-view, what about the little girl who asked? Is she better served by hiding from her ? for the time being ? the fact that opinions differ on the Big Questions? Is that for later? How about the "other-minded" kids she might go to school with, Muslims or Jews or atheists or what-have-you? Are they well served by being placed in an environment where all the "normal" kids are apt to regard "other" religions as a foreign concept, weird, abnormal, shameful? Is that fair?

I say hell no. No pun intended. The sooner kids get to learn about diversity, the sooner they can learn to respect it, and by extension, each other. And the sooner they can begin their own process of challenging their pre-installed givens and deciding for themselves what to believe ? a process that not only depends on a person's mental maturity, but also drives it.

The objective of shielding young children from the complexities of this world is well-intended and valid in itself ? but it should be taken in moderation, in a trade-off against the opposing objective of not installing their starting prejudices too firmly.

So I do not regret being truthful with her. If she was old enough to ask that question, she was old enough for a truthful answer to it. Telling children the truth sometimes does good and sometimes does harm, and sometimes does both. I think the truly harmful cases are few and far-between, so I plan to err on the truthful side. Tell it gently and carefully, but do tell the truth. Wherever feasible.

I went to boarding school and learnt about the importance of cultural diversity myself and I say giving children open choices about their lives is a good thing.
So I agree with this. How about anyone else?

 

[AriLyrMerSir]

I think this is a very interesting read - and while I could ramble on at length on the topic - to be honest, it's one that is NOTHING BUT, imo, potentially argumentative and flame-inspiring.

Why? Because as a whole people (myself included) tend to view their viewpoints and opinions as FACT and will likely not be swayed by another's viewpoint. Hence....I prefer to agree to disagree by not engaging that topic at all. (How's that for windy without saying anything?) *grin*

 

[Roman Candle]

As an adult or at least part way there, you're in a position of power over a child. If you tell them anything, you have to take that into account and not just what you're saying, but what they're understanding from it. You have to make it clear that there's a wide range of opinion, because generally when people tell children things they expect them to take it as accepted fact.

 

[Mitch]

If a kid asks you if you believe in santa or jesus the reply is simple. YOu answer there queston without answering it.

Example:
Kid: Do you belive in Santa
Me: Santa lives in the North Poles with little fairys and... tell her some stuff on santa.

Example:
Kid: Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of god?
Me: In the bible it says Jesus died for our sins to.... tell a long ass story thell get bored and forget the queston they asked.
Works 90% of the TIme.

The Trick is you answer there queston with facts, which are proven. That way you dont lie to them and you don't betray your beliefs.

ALSO: I Have a great concept sense i saw Santa and Jesus in the same Paragraph.
ONCE UPON A DUMBASS.
All Folk-Lore people like Snata, TOothfairy, Sandman, Easterbunny, Jesus and stuff live in one house and they all have a Psylogical Problem. GROUP THERAPY AND FAIRY TAILS.
Santa is Acholic, Sandman is a Petfile, Jesus is REblious, Mother Nature is Addicted to Crack.
LOL
What do you guys think?

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Thing with children is, you look out for their innocence without even realizing it. It has nothing to do with the actual answer, rather than what that answer could do to that child.

Even if it's a belief on something we do not follow, unless it is offensive to us, we don't want to burst their bubble. We'll lie, we'll sugar coat the truth, we'll diverge - whatever it takes to not separate that kid from that little world. We wait till we start feeling their growing up to fast. Oddly that's about the age the truth'll start coming out from us.

 

[Rye]

The Trick is you answer there queston with facts, which are proven.

But some of those facts you just said aren't really proven. Like with Santa, he doesn't exist, unless you tell the child of the man Santa was based upon.

 

[Tohsaka]

I, would explain why I didn't follow her belief. How there aren't any so-called gods. And I would explain why I don't follow a religion that condemns most of the world. Why should I have to lie to protect anyone other than myself?

 

[Roman Candle]

Why should I have to lie to protect anyone other than myself?

I don't know, because you have feelings for other people and you're not a sociopath? Maybe? Anyway, you have a responsibility not to treat your own subjective ideas as fact and give them as such to people you're in a position of power over.

Treat children as you would have liked to have been treated as a child. How would you like it if you asked a real question and someone just replied with a long boring ramble about nothing? There's no need to be patronising.

 

[Venetia]

I, would explain why I didn't follow her belief. How there aren't any so-called gods. And I would explain why I don't follow a religion that condemns most of the world. Why should I have to lie to protect anyone other than myself?

No, that's the worst thing you can do with a child. Were I a parent and I heard some stranger start rambling on about how all of my beliefs I have instilled in them is wrong, I'd probably throw the person out the window. You should not have to lie. But you shouldn't go on diatribes at innocent questions, either.

I myself am not Christian, I'm not atheist ... I'm not really anything. I don't really like to think about it. I'm ... An apathist, lol (play on the word 'apathy').

I hear atheists all the time, complaining about how fundamentalist Christians judge people all the time and try to convert people. And then, they turn right around and talk about how wrong Christianity is, and how dumb folks are for having faith! Isn't that being hypocritical? I'm definitely not saying you are like that, Rai, I'm just giving an example based on the world around me.

Children are judgmental based on nearly nothing, because they have no real previous experience or personal opinions to back up the information they're processing. They'll, of course, listen to parents most of all, but a staggering amount of hearsay and information from dubious sources gets in, because children are prone to listening to adults. We, just based on size alone, are authority figures, and throughout the animal kingdom, an authority figure's word is law to the young.

It's very important to instill compassion and openmindedness early, but it is not up to you, the stranger, or the family friend, to do this. It is up to the parents, and, a much smaller part, the teachers. Telling a child about how their parents' beliefs are wrong will do nothing but confuse the child. Relaying dubious "facts" will do nothing in an informal setting.

If confronted with a question about my religion by a child (and I have before), I simply turn the tables, and ask them what they think. If it's different than me (and it is 100% of the time), I smile, I nod, and I tell them that the world is what they make of it, and to enjoy life. If they press, I just tell them that I believe that the world is a big place and you have to try to be the best person you can be.

Unless their parents are stressing satanism at home, I think that covers all religions' bases :p.

That's all there really is to it, honestly, to accepting anyone. Just make up your own plan, and quit caring about everyone else's. Differences and changes are what makes being a human so special, and we should enjoy and celebrate the various creeds because they are the amazing creations of our incredibly unique minds. Everyone has a right to their own opinions, and until machines are able to alter our thought paths somehow, we should cherish that they are completely our own.

So that child that asks you your opinion should not be persuaded in any direction, turned around, or confused. They should be praised that they are curious enough to wonder, and we, as adults, should offer them only wisdom enough for them to make their own decisions.

:hug:

 

[Kojo]

I think we over anilyze the small things to forget what really matters. Just wing it and tell the truth. It is always the best policy.

 

[Reives]

Eh, I'd have to disagree that the truth is always the best policy, Kojo. :p I'd give some support for my view, but I'll pass since you didn't either.

 

[Overnerd]

I'd say just tell the truth about your beliefs

 

[StuntmanBank314]

In my opinion it is child abuse to teach your children Christianity....Some one said us atheist were judgmental because we say that religion is bad....not the case....this religion teaches that if you do not follow yhwh by way of yeshua (jesus) you are damned to an eternal fire.....
It also encourages blind faith and bigotry in its extreme forms....I am not trying to offend anyone...but if i am offending someone I apologize you are offended...NOT that I said these things....

I for one would never teach a child a religion...but let them choose for themselves.....Look at most fundamental Christian teens, by way of there parents they reject evolution that has been proven in favor of "revelations" by bronze age tribesmen......It does not cut it...believe what you want...but don't poison your kids, please.

 

[Venetia]

This isn't about what you should teach your kids, it's about feeling uncomfortable when poised with a question about your personal beliefs, especially when divulging your thoughts to a child (that isn't yours).

What a person teaches their child is their business, and what you believe might not be the same as what someone else believes, and so the problem lies in how a child may become confused from outside influences.

And to that I refer to my previous post.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

I remember someone telling me, well not me but I was part of the conversation group, they'd want their kids to learn as much as they could. They want people to be truthful.

Three years later someone told their kids something racist. This person who said it was very against Mexicans. Not all Latinos just Mexicans primarily. The child's father was furious. It's odd how people want their kids to be exposed to several schools of thought, just as long as they don't disagree with those thoughts - as in this case, racism.

Tell my kids the truth of what you think - just don't let it be anything I'm against. It's just as closed as the racist's thinking if you ask me. You can't have both, open and protected. People think open is good, but they are so ready to shut that out once it seems it has an inclination to harm. The kid got in trouble, and that's not fair to the kid.

Off topic, but still the thought occurred to me reading this.

 

[Venetia]

I completely agree that people should be able to say as they like. However a parent has the right to bring up their child as they prefer, and a stranger has no business trying to make a parents' job more difficult.

If it's a teen, who is really seeking information, then by all means. By that point they should be able to judge their source. But young children will usually ask questions only in wandering interest, not really because they're seeking the ultimate path to enlightenment.

Spewing off a bunch of information which sounds right to you will only sound like garbled confusion to a young child who knows only different.

Once I tried to argue with a 6-year-old who called Sonic the Hedgehog, "Somec and the Hangerhog". I was mostly playing, but the kid swore up and down that it was really "Somec and the Hangerhog", and nothing I could say or do would persuade him otherwise :P. Do you really think blathering on about your lifes' ideals is going to do any good to a young kid??

My point is that it's not the stranger's place to teach a child, so just chill. Leave the early instill-ments to the parents, and to a lesser part, the teachers. Because they are the only ones who'll have contact enough with the kid to influence them more than confuse them.

 

[Kraft]

I think we over anilyze the small things to forget what really matters. Just wing it and tell the truth. It is always the best policy.

So, when that little 6 year old kid comes to you and asks you where babies come from you are gonna tell them?

 

[Fafnir]

I would just give them a simple, truthful answer. I don't like sugarcoating things. I wouldn't argue, and I wouldn't try to make any points. I'd just answer the question as simply and truthfully as possible. A simple 'no' would suffice for me.

In a perfect world, people would grow up and make their religious choices by themselves, but usually, a different side will have more or less pull(be it atheism, Christianity, Judaism, etc.), so it's impossible to have a perfectly balanced childhood. The best we can do is just teach them that there is more then one view in the world, and that they should formulate their own.

And Venetia, Somec and the Hangerhog is a freaking brilliant name.

And as for your question Kraft, I'd usually leave that one to the parents, but if I were the parent, I would tell them truthfully. My parents did, and I seem to have turned out fine. Stupid stories of storks and such will just confuse them down the road, and stupid answers belittles the intelligence of childeren.

 

[Kraft]

Really? You were six?

just imagine trying to explain that to a kid...

Not only would that make them into... well, kinda a pervert at a young age (I still think it is really odd/weird when kids about the age of 10 say Fu*k in every single sentence)

Not something I would really want them doing at such a young age...
I wouldn't tell anyone that there was a stork, or any bull like that, but if they were too young to have their... parts grown in, then I would just tell them to ask me again when they are older. (or change the subject quickly ^_^)

 

[Fafnir]

Really? You were six?

just imagine trying to explain that to a kid...

Not only would that make them into... well, kinda a pervert at a young age (I still think it is really odd/weird when kids about the age of 10 say Fu*k in every single sentence)

Not something I would really want them doing at such a young age...
I wouldn't tell anyone that there was a stork, or any bull like that, but if they were too young to have their... parts grown in, then I would just tell them to ask me again when they are older. (or change the subject quickly ^_^)

I wouldn't go in full detail. The simple answer would be something along the lines of saying mommy and daddy have sex, and then the baby grows in mommy's belly(womb would be too graphic for a 6 year old, IMO), and then 9 months later, she gives birth. If she's old enough to ask, she should be old enough to get a truthful answer, even if it's watered down. It's better to tell them the truth then to have someone else fill their heads with storks.