Canadian Knights
- Thread starter arcthemonkey
- Start date
ParkAvenger
Member
Allow me to rephrase: I think it would be more tedious/frustrating for the player. Using the FFIX example: If you equipped an older, weaker item to learn its skill and your stats were based solely on that item, you would suffer horribly in combat because the fact that you were using that weapon would be the sole factor determining your attack power.
On top of that, no-level systems often take away part of the feeling of progression; instead of having improved the characters themselves, you've just got a bunch of equipment to mark your progress, and when you take it off you're as lame as you were when you began. That's just my two cents; I'm not trying to argue, just debate.
On top of that, no-level systems often take away part of the feeling of progression; instead of having improved the characters themselves, you've just got a bunch of equipment to mark your progress, and when you take it off you're as lame as you were when you began. That's just my two cents; I'm not trying to argue, just debate.
arcthemonkey
Sponsor
The reason I'm seriously considered removing levels is because they would be used for very little.
The problem I'm facing is that I also have a weapon upgrading system in place. For, say, 2500 Bucks (2500 bucks is a LOT of money in CK), you can have 5% armor piercing added to your weapon, or have it lightened to add 5%evasion. Now, if I hand bonuses out through levels, as well, Characters like Bildo with 60% armor piercing in the beginning end up with 95% at level 20. That's a problem.
The character's initial stats can't change dramatically - if not for the fact that you can buy upgrades, these stats (Armor Piercing, Damage Reduction, Accuracy and Evasion) would be static, ideally.
This is how I differentiate between characters.
Let's compare Bildo, Indy, and Yammie using hypothetical values (the game hasn't been balanced yet).
Bildo:
HP = 50
ATK = 150 (Determined by equipment)
Armor Piercing = 60%
Damage Reduction = 35%
Accuracy = 30 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Evasion = 30 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Critical Hit Rate = 10%
Critical Damage Modifiers = 3x, 2x
Indy:
HP = 35
ATK = 100 (Determined by equipment)
Armor Piercing = 45%
Damage Reduction = 55%
Accuracy = 30 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Evasion = 50 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Critical Hit Rate = 25%
Critical Damage Modifiers = 5x, 4x, 3x, 2x
Yammie:
HP = 20
ATK = 25 (Determined by equipment)
Armor Piercing = 200%
Damage Reduction = 20%
Accuracy = 40 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Evasion = 65 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Critical Hit Rate = 5%
Critical Damage Modifiers = 2x, 1.5x
These three characters are very distinct. Bildo has very high attack power and high armor piercing, so how could Indy ever measure up with his decidedly lower attack power and armor piercing values? The secret lies in Indy's critical hit rate and damage modifiers. Indy gets critical hits like noone's business, with a small chance to do 5x damage with a single attack, while Bildo can't do more than 3x (Bildo has a better chance of getting 3x damage than Indy has of getting more than 2x, but again, can't do better than 3x). Yammie has a rediculously low attack power and a rediculously high armor piercing value (Yammie ignored armor). Yammie is perfect for those super-heavy armored enemies with low health... He also spends most of his time casting spells.
So, hopefully it becomes clear that between new equipment, upgrades, AND levels increasing your stats, numbers start to get way too high to be reasonable, and distinctions begin to dissapear. If I used experiance only to increase health (max MP is only increased by rare items!), that seems like a waste - I could just tie HP to body armor and be done with it (Skills will NOT be tied to equipment.)
So yeah, it's kinda hard to decide, but I'm leaning towards no levels.
Edit: Also, new screenshots!
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/5582 ... ot1fo8.png[/IMG]
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7062 ... ot2np5.png[/IMG]
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1300 ... ot3qe2.png[/IMG]
The problem I'm facing is that I also have a weapon upgrading system in place. For, say, 2500 Bucks (2500 bucks is a LOT of money in CK), you can have 5% armor piercing added to your weapon, or have it lightened to add 5%evasion. Now, if I hand bonuses out through levels, as well, Characters like Bildo with 60% armor piercing in the beginning end up with 95% at level 20. That's a problem.
The character's initial stats can't change dramatically - if not for the fact that you can buy upgrades, these stats (Armor Piercing, Damage Reduction, Accuracy and Evasion) would be static, ideally.
This is how I differentiate between characters.
Let's compare Bildo, Indy, and Yammie using hypothetical values (the game hasn't been balanced yet).
Bildo:
HP = 50
ATK = 150 (Determined by equipment)
Armor Piercing = 60%
Damage Reduction = 35%
Accuracy = 30 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Evasion = 30 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Critical Hit Rate = 10%
Critical Damage Modifiers = 3x, 2x
Indy:
HP = 35
ATK = 100 (Determined by equipment)
Armor Piercing = 45%
Damage Reduction = 55%
Accuracy = 30 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Evasion = 50 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Critical Hit Rate = 25%
Critical Damage Modifiers = 5x, 4x, 3x, 2x
Yammie:
HP = 20
ATK = 25 (Determined by equipment)
Armor Piercing = 200%
Damage Reduction = 20%
Accuracy = 40 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Evasion = 65 (Out of 100, but not a percent)
Critical Hit Rate = 5%
Critical Damage Modifiers = 2x, 1.5x
These three characters are very distinct. Bildo has very high attack power and high armor piercing, so how could Indy ever measure up with his decidedly lower attack power and armor piercing values? The secret lies in Indy's critical hit rate and damage modifiers. Indy gets critical hits like noone's business, with a small chance to do 5x damage with a single attack, while Bildo can't do more than 3x (Bildo has a better chance of getting 3x damage than Indy has of getting more than 2x, but again, can't do better than 3x). Yammie has a rediculously low attack power and a rediculously high armor piercing value (Yammie ignored armor). Yammie is perfect for those super-heavy armored enemies with low health... He also spends most of his time casting spells.
So, hopefully it becomes clear that between new equipment, upgrades, AND levels increasing your stats, numbers start to get way too high to be reasonable, and distinctions begin to dissapear. If I used experiance only to increase health (max MP is only increased by rare items!), that seems like a waste - I could just tie HP to body armor and be done with it (Skills will NOT be tied to equipment.)
So yeah, it's kinda hard to decide, but I'm leaning towards no levels.
Edit: Also, new screenshots!
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/5582 ... ot1fo8.png[/IMG]
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7062 ... ot2np5.png[/IMG]
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1300 ... ot3qe2.png[/IMG]
Ratty524;230563 said:
Agreed, I was already keeping an eye on this game but those new screenshots have seriously made me want to play this now.
Good work :thumb:
Also, I like your idea about the not leveling issue in your game. It makes things a bit more original. My ownly concern is getting to a boss that is to strong for me to kill, and rather than staying near the save point and training I would have to fight for money, and then go all the way back into town from the dungeon just to upgrade my weapons and armour and walk all the way back.
Camisado
laxstar333
Member
God I'm looking forward to playing this!
arcthemonkey
Sponsor
Camisado;230677 said:
I'm working on overcoming this very problem. Right now, the plan is the have Trish the Heckler (the shop keeper) present at every save point (Buttons the cat is the universal save point. Cats are nature's historians, you know!).
This works with Trish's character since she is literally stalking the party.
Another idea we've tossed around is having Dark Cloud 2-esque characters who are in your party, but don't actually fight. You access them through the menu, and if we did this, Trish would be one of them - giving you access to items anywhere you go, once she joins up.
Note though that I have no plans to have the blacksmith follow you around.
Any other ideas?
(I've also considered having weapons level up instead of characters, but I'm not sure I want to ditch the blacksmith in place of another complicated script.)
This promises to be a very funny and entertaining game. I'm looking forward to playing it 
I like the idea of the stalking shopkeeper. It can definitely make for some funny situations - especially if you add something like really bad disguises in a poor attempt to appear inconspicuous.
You could also add something like a paid teleport - costing a fair amount - that would allow the player to port back to the town to upgrade their weapon. They'd still have to run back through the dungeon to the boss room (just to make the player really think whether the upgrade is worth it or if they just need to adjust their strategy).
Lastly, you could offer a pricy "temporary" enchant for the weapon prior to the boss. It can boost up the stats just a little and remove the enchant after the fight. I'm not sure how complex this would be in terms of scripting/eventing, but it might just be the edge that the player needs to defeat the boss.
I like the idea of the stalking shopkeeper. It can definitely make for some funny situations - especially if you add something like really bad disguises in a poor attempt to appear inconspicuous.
You could also add something like a paid teleport - costing a fair amount - that would allow the player to port back to the town to upgrade their weapon. They'd still have to run back through the dungeon to the boss room (just to make the player really think whether the upgrade is worth it or if they just need to adjust their strategy).
Lastly, you could offer a pricy "temporary" enchant for the weapon prior to the boss. It can boost up the stats just a little and remove the enchant after the fight. I'm not sure how complex this would be in terms of scripting/eventing, but it might just be the edge that the player needs to defeat the boss.
Hm... since the entire "leveling-up" thing is pretty much out of the window, is there any way to upgrade the characters' HP/SP, such as drinking Red Bull, going through plastic surgery, etc.?
And I love the idea of a stalking shopkeeper, especially when combined with lunarea's idea of cheap disguises. "Hello, there. I'm... Mr. T... the shopkeeper."
Anyways, this project is still looking pretty much awesome. I'll be eagerly awaiting a demo. *goes into The Audition mode*
And I love the idea of a stalking shopkeeper, especially when combined with lunarea's idea of cheap disguises. "Hello, there. I'm... Mr. T... the shopkeeper."
Anyways, this project is still looking pretty much awesome. I'll be eagerly awaiting a demo. *goes into The Audition mode*
Erichermit
Member
There had better be some jokes making fun of Mac and Cheese in there
arcthemonkey
Sponsor
Voice overs work like this:
Canadian Knights is composed of 7 chapters, 4 of which have completed scripts attached to them.
The script doesn't contain scenario info (such as, what areas you visit, etc.), it just contains major dialogue. If you were to read just the script, although you would have much less of an idea of location and such in many cases, you would be able to follow the entire story.
Every word in the script is recorded. Plain and simple. Well, rewrites and improvisation notwithstanding.
However, the script also doesn't contain any intermediate dialogue, (area introductions, short conversations, etc.) camp scene dialogue (with two exceptions), or random NPC dialogue. Such dialogue is not recorderded!
So, to make a long story short, the game's major scenes, and pretty much anything having to do with major character development, or plot progression, is voiced over. Stuff inbetween, which is really nothing more than dialogue inserted during development, is not. Because of this, the voiced over dialogue accounts for almost 80% of cutscene dialogue!
To fill in the silence of every day NPC talking, we're using a secondary dialogue system similar to what they use in the more recent Legend of Zelda games, employing gibberish or affirmative/negative sounds when a dialogue box appears. Every major character has approx. 8 sounds for this goal, for various emotions and situations (Example: Captain Indy will often be found giving an exhasperated "No!" when responding to bad news, and whenever you open a treasure chest with Bildo, he gives an inquisitive "Huh?" If the treasure rocks, he says, "OOOOH!", otherwise he says "Awww..."
We are also constantly building a bank of NPC/Townsperson voices. These are completely gibberish, absurd sound bits that play when you talk to people you find around the world. You'll either love it, or hate it.
I'm working on putting together a small proof-of-concept/tech demo for the game. You guys will get to hear lots of dialogue and such.
Edit: Oh, I forgot, battles are also voiced over! Your characters make sounds in reaction to pretty much everything, with enough variations that hopefully it won't get annoying.
Edit2: We also recorded all of the animal/monster sounds ourselves (and no, we didn't record animals or monsters - prepare to laugh the first time you hear a dog), and even the menu/interface sounds are me making sounds into the mic! It doesn't sound as bad as it sounds like it would sound...
Canadian Knights is composed of 7 chapters, 4 of which have completed scripts attached to them.
The script doesn't contain scenario info (such as, what areas you visit, etc.), it just contains major dialogue. If you were to read just the script, although you would have much less of an idea of location and such in many cases, you would be able to follow the entire story.
Every word in the script is recorded. Plain and simple. Well, rewrites and improvisation notwithstanding.
However, the script also doesn't contain any intermediate dialogue, (area introductions, short conversations, etc.) camp scene dialogue (with two exceptions), or random NPC dialogue. Such dialogue is not recorderded!
So, to make a long story short, the game's major scenes, and pretty much anything having to do with major character development, or plot progression, is voiced over. Stuff inbetween, which is really nothing more than dialogue inserted during development, is not. Because of this, the voiced over dialogue accounts for almost 80% of cutscene dialogue!
To fill in the silence of every day NPC talking, we're using a secondary dialogue system similar to what they use in the more recent Legend of Zelda games, employing gibberish or affirmative/negative sounds when a dialogue box appears. Every major character has approx. 8 sounds for this goal, for various emotions and situations (Example: Captain Indy will often be found giving an exhasperated "No!" when responding to bad news, and whenever you open a treasure chest with Bildo, he gives an inquisitive "Huh?" If the treasure rocks, he says, "OOOOH!", otherwise he says "Awww..."
We are also constantly building a bank of NPC/Townsperson voices. These are completely gibberish, absurd sound bits that play when you talk to people you find around the world. You'll either love it, or hate it.
I'm working on putting together a small proof-of-concept/tech demo for the game. You guys will get to hear lots of dialogue and such.
Edit: Oh, I forgot, battles are also voiced over! Your characters make sounds in reaction to pretty much everything, with enough variations that hopefully it won't get annoying.
Edit2: We also recorded all of the animal/monster sounds ourselves (and no, we didn't record animals or monsters - prepare to laugh the first time you hear a dog), and even the menu/interface sounds are me making sounds into the mic! It doesn't sound as bad as it sounds like it would sound...
arcthemonkey
Sponsor