Atheism IS a Religion.

[sixtyandaquarter]

You know, Clizzz, there might just be a third demographic that just don't bother themselves with theology. If someone hasn't decided either way because they just don't care about it, I'd say he's neither atheist or religious.  Just, uh, secular -- outside the matter of religion entirely. What's the point of grabbing someone by the shoulders and trying to convince them they're atheist, anyway?

They might be responding to this thread right now - oooo spoooky.

Atheism CAN a religion, because a religion does not have to have a god - does not have to have doctrine - does not have to have rituals - etc. etc.
Not that atheism is by default, although I've always included it as such, but rather can be a religion.  Just like (enter religion here) can be nothing more than a club, and not hold any religions meaning, to someone on a personal level.

Religion is a strong personal faith.  Many atheists have as strong a faith, as many Christians for example.  Faith is the binding glue.  Not gods, not spirituals, not unexplained supernatural phenomena.  I have faith in humanity's ability to socially destroy itself, that can if I held onto it dearly, be a religious experience for me, and can turn into a profoundly personal religion.  People do pray to chocolate.  There were no gods, but they prayed to chocolate.  Atheism in a sense.

 

[Clockwise]

I'm not sure whether I'd consider atheism a religion or not as it would depend on the definitions your looking at. The more general definitions for religion could incorporate atheism while others could easily exclude it.
Though whether atheism is a religion or not doesn't seem to really matter as either way it is a belief one chooses, for one reason or another, that generally affects the way they see the world.

I would agree most of you that people that use science as a way to back up atheism with the attitude that  '(main stream) science is fact, end of story'  and won't even bother listening to what you might have to say is annoying. (Though that narrow attitude is generally annoying with most topics).

I would also agree that its a shame when someone thinks there better then someone else because of what they believe. Christians especially since their beliefs state that everyone is equal because everyone has done something wrong.

A few had also of you brought up the fact you think people should NOT try to "convert" other people, being what I am I can't really agree with this. My main reason, I actually heard worded best buy a non-Christian, he said something along the lines of... if Christians truly believe in what the do [hell etc] and don't try to save the rest of the world from it then they're the worst kind of people on the Earth... though I agree one should be respectful when sharing

Someone also mention it illogical to believe in a god that is contradictory, and I would have to agree in that point. Though if they were referring to Yahweh the Jewish and Christian God then I would argue that He isn't contradictory, especially in reference to the example, as God (Yahweh) is considered all knowing and can see into the future (isn't actually constrained by time)[though I'm not sure if they were actually using that example as a point].

I also think that no matter what you believe in you actually have faith in your belief, yes even (science) atheists.
And as for logic, those that think that religions don't have any logic behind them (particularly Christainity) you may want to read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis or one of Lee Strobel's books.

And as you might have guess I'm a Follower of Christ (aka Christian...though I don't typically use that word for myself as its meaning has evolved to mean something a little different).

 

[___]

Atheists can wax on all they like about how they are by definition of the term they've chosen for themselves non-religious.  However if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's a duck. 

Hardcore atheists behave in every functional way like deeply religious people; they grow strongly offended when their belief system is called into question, they proselytize incessantly, they insult, demean and belittle people who don't agree with their beliefs, they know very little in terms of facts about what they actually believe in, and they are not open in the least bit to the idea that their beliefs might be partially or wholly wrong at an objective level.

I say duck, duck, duck.

Personally I keep my beliefs mostly to myself, discuss them when people are interested, and am the first to admit that what I believe is unprovable and even likely to be incorrect.  That is the definition of non-religious, I believe.  Open mindedness, tolerance and acceptance of other people and their right to make up their own mind is the antithesis of religion.

 

[Mittens2317]

THANK YOU

I am annoyed by the "cool-kid" atheists out there (especially online) that go around flaunting it and generally attacking Christians at every chance they get. It gives the real athiests like myself a bad name. I don't belive what I believe to try and be cool or cutting edge or any of that bullshit, it's just the way I think about things and I can't really change that.

Yeah, I'm one of those. I love taunting religious people on the internet. It's fun. Not that I'd do it to anyone on here. I just enjoy being mischevious, seeing just how offended people get that your opinions and beliefs differ so much from theirs. However, I'm much like them myself, as I instantly jump to the defence of Atheism whenever it is called into question. Hypocritical, yes, but we all have our flaws. Thankfully, I see myself as the exception to every rule I have. :D

 

[Prexus]

NOW, HERE'S A NEWSFLASH:

SCIENTIFIC THEORIES ABOUT THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE AND THE AFTERLIFE ARE NOT FACTS.
THEY ARE THEORIES.

Did you know that Gravity is a theory?
Speed, velocity, and momentum are all theories.

Simply because something is a theory doesn't make it any less valid. The same goes for all religious beliefs.

I can understand why an Athiest would say "I'm not a religious person." The common association with Religion is that you believe in a God, or a creation that isn't science. That comes from the association that science is more valid than fairy tale, which is only a half-truth. Whether the actual definition of 'Religion' is a belief in a God, or a belief in general, is a moot point to say the least.

I believe that technology is gearing itself towards the technology described in popular Sci-Fi fiction, such as Star Trek. Does that make it a religion?

I worship my girlfriend, does that make it a religion?

 

[Shizu]

Yeah, I'm one of those. I love taunting religious people on the internet. It's fun. Not that I'd do it to anyone on here. I just enjoy being mischevious, seeing just how offended people get that your opinions and beliefs differ so much from theirs. However, I'm much like them myself, as I instantly jump to the defence of Atheism whenever it is called into question. Hypocritical, yes, but we all have our flaws. Thankfully, I see myself as the exception to every rule I have. :D

I tend to do the same, in a lighter version. Not to people randomly, but simply to ones who try to countlessly try to prove that their 'belief' is in fact, the one and true religion. Math, Science and Astronomy has always been my thing, but I don't pin down on people that natural process, big bang and whatnot is what proves everything else to be wrong. I just believe that a god is nice and all to pray to but I don't need one to tell me what to do with my life. :>

 

[Mittens2317]

Yeah, I'm one of those. I love taunting religious people on the internet. It's fun. Not that I'd do it to anyone on here. I just enjoy being mischevious, seeing just how offended people get that your opinions and beliefs differ so much from theirs. However, I'm much like them myself, as I instantly jump to the defence of Atheism whenever it is called into question. Hypocritical, yes, but we all have our flaws. Thankfully, I see myself as the exception to every rule I have. :D

I tend to do the same, in a lighter version. Not to people randomly, but simply to ones who try to countlessly try to prove that their 'belief' is in fact, the one and true religion. Math, Science and Astronomy has always been my thing, but I don't pin down on people that natural process, big bang and whatnot is what proves everything else to be wrong. I just believe that a god is nice and all to pray to but I don't need one to tell me what to do with my life. :>

Exactly, man. Sometimes it's like banging your head against a brick wall though, coz no matter how many comparisons or examples you can draw up, they still refuse to even accept your point of view, or try to understand. I suppose it's just natural human arrogance though, to always think that what you believe is fact. But like Oasis' album title says.. Don't Believe The Truth.

 

[___]

It's a fair point of fact to say that a proper scientific Theory (capital T) is pretty much fact as we understand it.  However some of the core beliefs of the hardcore atheist are not, in fact, proper scientific Theories, they are at best a loose jumble of hypotheses that are still growing and changing as we discover supporting and controverting evidence. 

When you say a thing like "The Theory of Evolution" you are neglecting the fact that it is not a Theory (capital T), it's a theory, e.g. scientifically speaking still a hypothesis.  Furthermore with today's knowledge and technology it's completely unprovable and also unfalsifiable, so the theory of Evolution as whole doesn't meet the basic criteria to be subjected to peer review and accepted as a Theory.  Does that mean it's wrong?  No, absolutely not, in fact amongst the many components of evolutionary hypotheses several major parts are scientifically proven and there are a lot of really solid ideas on how the rest of it works.

It just means it takes a certain degree of desire to believe and subscribe to it to draw the conclusion that it's factual, that it did happen, that goes beyond our current ability to prove through evidence and logic and the scientific process.  There's nothing wrong with that whatsoever, of course; beyond the edge of scientific fact and Theory one has to either pick something to believe in or chose to find a way to be comfortable with the idea that one cannot know for certain.  I think the more rational person takes the latter path.

 

[Mittens2317]

Atheism as a religion should've been called scientology. Sadly though, idiots believed the drafted works of a sci-fi writer and took the name. The worst thing is thinking of the money they're making..

 

[Level10]

Tell me why you think your GENERALLY-ACCEPTED, STRUCTURED BELIEF SYSTEM is not a religion.

Tell me. Please.

Because atheism isn't a structured belief system. It is simply one thing: disbelief or lack of belief in any god or gods. That's all atheism is, any other beliefs a person may hold regarding the afterlife, the beginning of the universe, or other as yet unknown scenarios may come about as a result of a person's atheism, but they are not part of it.

 

[Sic Semper Tyranosaurus]

I view atheism as more of an absence of religion than the presence of one. Atheists, to my knowledge, have no dogma or mythology, for example. While atheists may become offended when their beliefs are attacked, how does that make them a religion? I get right pissed when people insist that global warming is a hoax, but I don't worship the idea.

 

[Injury]

It's not a religion because you don't believe in anything. That is why people enjoy it. You abstain from accepting any form of "deity(ies)" as your creator(s), and you marvel in the fact that people worship nothing.

For those who get real pissy about this kinda shit, I believe in myself. That should be enough for anyone who isn't scared of life or death.

Oh and global warming exists. It's called science, not "God is mad, so he will heat the planet by 5 million degrees for each hour that he doesn't see McNeal, the short skirt wearing female lawyer."

Christian Science = Joke.

 

[PeteD2S]

Like beeing healthy is not beeing ill, beeing an atheist is not beeing part of any religion. Why is it so difficult to understand?

From wikipedia

A religion is a set of beliefs and practices generally organized around supernatural and moral claims, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law.

A true atheist does not believe in the supernatural and doesn't obey to any religious law. But one can pray and participate in rituals, these don't have to be necessarily religious.

I don't believe in a God or afterlife and I don't follow religious laws, although I do participate in Christmas and Easter since I was raised catholic, but that doesn't mean I believe. I just exploit these events to get goodies (oh yeh).



(note, I am not saying religion is a disease)

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Generally, often codified - neither state as a mandatory requirement.
Set of beliefs and practices, that's something many atheists do have, which is why I've always said I think it "can" be.  From a person to person basis.  Same as how someone raised Catholic can not care, but still take part in the rituals - someone raised Catholic could have the faith, and yet not take in the practices.

If someone believes heatedly in something, that fits the moral code or the theologics, then it is a religion.  Theology includes "is there a diety?" and "afterlife yes/no?!".  If you don't care, that's one thing, but if you have a firm mind and will argue with it, you have a religion.

It's like having a political picture.  It might be neither left nor right, but you still have one.

 

[Venetia]

In my original post, I used myself as an example -- I have no religion.

It's not that I believe there is no god. It's not that I believe in god. I just choose not to even consider the possibility. I am so open minded, I figure I'll call it when I see it and save it 'til then.

Apathy, at its finest, folks.

That's what it is to be religion-less. Taking leaps of faith requires religiousness.

Assuming there is no god is just as big of a leap of faith as assuming there is one.

Why?

Because you don't know for sure! So it's faith, no matter how you want to describe it!

 

[Level10]

You could take that even further and say that we can never know anything for sure, so everything we think we know, right down to the fact that we exist is a leap of faith.

Assuming there is no god is just as big of a leap of faith as assuming there is one.

I disagree completely. Does it take just as much faith to assume that there's no giant, invisible, pink unicorn behind me that I can't hear or feel as it does to assume there is one?

 

[mawk]

That assumes you have the sensory equipment to detect giant invisible pink unicorns if present. For all we know, there could be something standing behind you right now. To me, there are about even chances of something being there and that something not being there; a lack of proof of something's presence isn't necessarily proof of its lack of presence. As it stands, though, we're not equipped to open Doc Schrödinger's box on that matter just yet.

You could take that even further and say that we can never know anything for sure, so everything we think we know, right down to the fact that we exist is a leap of faith.

For all it matters, I'm quite confident that if I were to leap out my window at this moment, invisible forces would propel me downwards at a rate of roughly 9.81 meters per second per second, slowed somewhat by wind resistance, and that once I made contact with the ground I would be in a great deal of pain and would also be exceptionally cold and probably locked out of my house with no shoes.

However, since you seem to be touching on the matter of the Cosmic Illusion here, I think it's fair to say that if nothing is real, I would only think I had leapt out of my window, and would merely be distracting myself from the main issue with incessant thoughts of my cold feet.

 

[djzalzer]

@level10
http://www.atheists.org/
or
http://www.atheists.com/atheistscms/

Atheism doesn't make sense to me but that's for another debate I suppose.
EDIT: :O another whole page of posts was made whilst I posted.

 

[Despain]

Atheism doesn't make sense to me but that's for another debate I suppose.

How can it not make sense? Believing in a god when there has never been any reason to makes a lot less sense to me.

 

[Olivia]

Like...

I don't how atheists can say religion sounds weird when the process of exsistance just suddenly appeared when there was no such thing as matter.

That's like saying a ford suddenly came out of nowhere without any mechanics, and like saying, we came to life without any force creating it.