Youngest Sex Change in History of History. How a Tim...Became a Kim
- Thread starter Vash
- Start date
I think if you are aware for twelve years, before you have formed any preconceptions about gender identity and the opposite sex, that you are the wrong sex... yeah, that is not inappropriate. The shrinks who test out sex change patients know to check more than just if the kid is getting his winkle chopped off on a whim. Doubtless s/he felt s/he was supposed to be a girl for most or all of his/her life, or they would never have allowed it. Especially not on taxpayers' money.
FoxDemonSoavi
Member
Honestly its akin to phantom limb syndrome for most. Your brain is deaigned to acomadate your body. two arms two legs etc. IF you lose an arm you will still think its there. Imagine being born where your brain says that you have a penis and you don't? (FtM's) or if your brain says you have a vagina and you don't (MtF's). You can't. But thats commonly how its described. I've known many trans people and this makes great sense to me. So one would sort of know that their body feels off.
FoxDemonSoavi
Member
didn't you people read anything I said? It is a medical thing not a "whatever thing". Its just another genetic defect. What guy would want to do that to himself? None. The kids penis doesn't register as being attached to their body. So they have it made into the part that they are hard wired to have. Transexuality is akin to Intersexuality. They are all genetic defects dealing with the genitals. So you can go correct it.
Roman Candle
Member
This has nothing to do with being gay :p
Gender identity disorder deals with the gender that the person identifies with. It has nothing to do with sexual preference. This makes it possible for someone who was born with male physical attributes to have a sex-change operation to become a female but still be sexually attracted to females.
I actually know a child who is 7 years old who is physically a male but identifies with the female gender. In fact, this child has identified with the female gender since he was in preschool, possibly even earlier than that. I am so sick of people blaming it on the mother. Everyone says that the mother shouldn't let her child play with or own "female" things. Think about it. People who, as adults, make the decision to have a sex change operation have known since they were a child that they were in the wrong body. It doesn't suddenly occur to them. Why would anyone choose this? They don't have control over how they feel about their gender. It's the same with being homosexual. This isn't something someone decides to be one day. It's not like choosing a career.
Going back to the child I know. I'm worried because right now, the child actually looks like a female and is accepted as a female, by most people. But once he begins to go through puberty, his life will get much more complicated. People will begin questioning him and harassing him. I think that people need to be more open-minded and not be so quick to judging others.
I actually know a child who is 7 years old who is physically a male but identifies with the female gender. In fact, this child has identified with the female gender since he was in preschool, possibly even earlier than that. I am so sick of people blaming it on the mother. Everyone says that the mother shouldn't let her child play with or own "female" things. Think about it. People who, as adults, make the decision to have a sex change operation have known since they were a child that they were in the wrong body. It doesn't suddenly occur to them. Why would anyone choose this? They don't have control over how they feel about their gender. It's the same with being homosexual. This isn't something someone decides to be one day. It's not like choosing a career.
Going back to the child I know. I'm worried because right now, the child actually looks like a female and is accepted as a female, by most people. But once he begins to go through puberty, his life will get much more complicated. People will begin questioning him and harassing him. I think that people need to be more open-minded and not be so quick to judging others.
I don't understand what your body parts have to do with your gender. Can't someone dress as a female and be anatomically a male? Or vice versa?
I'm pretty sure the problem is with the constrained definitions of gender in society. If there wasn't loads of pressure to identify with one of two narrow categories, we'd have a lot less psychological trauma.
I'm not saying that getting a sex change is bad, I'm saying the anguish that commonly, but not always, leads to having the operation done is mostly the fault of our culture.
I'm pretty sure the problem is with the constrained definitions of gender in society. If there wasn't loads of pressure to identify with one of two narrow categories, we'd have a lot less psychological trauma.
I'm not saying that getting a sex change is bad, I'm saying the anguish that commonly, but not always, leads to having the operation done is mostly the fault of our culture.
FoxDemonSoavi
Member
actualy you just touched on a rant of mine. Tehre are transexuals as I ahve described and then there are transgender people. Transgender people get confsued with transexuals.
Many transexuals don't change their gender. MAny transgender peopel don't change their sex. The two are not related.
Many transexuals don't change their gender. MAny transgender peopel don't change their sex. The two are not related.
Ooh yeah... I just did an extensive report on the whole transgendered/transsexual thing, which ended in me having an argument with a friend of mine who insisted he was transgendered. Then I did the research and told him he wasn't, he's transsexual. Then he said he decided to call himself transgendered because transsexual was a porn term, and he didn't want any part of that. Then I asked why he didn't just go with GID and the whole thing spun out of control.
Y'know, at the beginning, I really did feel empathetic towards those who are GID. Hell, it was even accepted and dealt with in Native American, Japanese and Roman cultures, why do we have the problem?
Then I did the research, interviewed people and... I don't feel the same way anymore.
The problem is with the mentality of people, and the variances in severity of cases. I doubt the female members of this board would feel this way, and I wouldn't expect them to understand quite what I'm about to touch on, but in a way females have more leeway and workroom in social situations as far as gender is concerned then males.
Whenever someone talks about gay bashing or physical violence against homosexuals its usually males. A female can act with an independent air (and take on more masculine qualities) or become more feminine (old-school 1950s Mom's wearing a skirt and baking an apple-pie in the oven for the Dover boys. :P) I know I couldn't, for instance, don a jaunty dress and bake cookies, and if I said I wanted to now, most people would think I'm queer/transgendered/transsexual/GID depending on how much they know about the subject. However, my friend Julie next door can put on some dirty jeans, grab a beer and go down to the football game.
I'm trying to be as careful as I can when discussing this, and I have no questions about whether someone's going to debate my logic, but what I'm trying to say is that what we define as masculine and feminine in todays society is a bridge that can be crossed by females only. Should a male choose to act in any way "feminine" then he's persecuted.
Why am I saying this? Well I think it backs up my own claim that, given a choice, I see no reason why certain men, who don't have GID (or a severe case of it) wouldn't at least consider what life might be like as a female. Being honest, I know as a child I felt that if I were a girl life would be the bomb, or some such. Of course now I don't feel that way. Though I do complain that girls have so much they can do fashion-wise that I can't... Then I throw bottles at them and complain some more (these are my friends, they accept my insanity*.)
*and to avoid further confusion or debate, no, I'm not really crazy.
My main issue is that, there's no real way to test and find out whether or not someones DNA dealt them a wild-card. We can't take a ray-gun and aim it at someone's crotch to determine whether or not they have phantom-genitals.
Furthermore, cultures like the early Native Americans found a way to incorporate people who feel trans gendered or GID without swapping out body parts (have fun kids.) Obviously people such as this child, in my opinion, don't need to change their biology to feel right. I think they just need a society that can accept them.
I guess I look at this situation as you might someone born handicapped. We can use science to help them, but only if it interferes with their life. A person in a wheelchair needs said appliance to get around. Such procedures cost money and take time and are extremely risky. Should we bother changing other people who we can't explicitly know whether or not they do have a problem? And involve them in surgery that costs money, puts their health at risk and costs tax dollars to perform? Or could we do as we've done centuries ago in a time where sticks and rocks where the bees knees and live friggen' life that doesn't revolve around what configuration of shoots and ladders we've got hanging between our legs?
Y'know, at the beginning, I really did feel empathetic towards those who are GID. Hell, it was even accepted and dealt with in Native American, Japanese and Roman cultures, why do we have the problem?
Then I did the research, interviewed people and... I don't feel the same way anymore.
The problem is with the mentality of people, and the variances in severity of cases. I doubt the female members of this board would feel this way, and I wouldn't expect them to understand quite what I'm about to touch on, but in a way females have more leeway and workroom in social situations as far as gender is concerned then males.
Whenever someone talks about gay bashing or physical violence against homosexuals its usually males. A female can act with an independent air (and take on more masculine qualities) or become more feminine (old-school 1950s Mom's wearing a skirt and baking an apple-pie in the oven for the Dover boys. :P) I know I couldn't, for instance, don a jaunty dress and bake cookies, and if I said I wanted to now, most people would think I'm queer/transgendered/transsexual/GID depending on how much they know about the subject. However, my friend Julie next door can put on some dirty jeans, grab a beer and go down to the football game.
I'm trying to be as careful as I can when discussing this, and I have no questions about whether someone's going to debate my logic, but what I'm trying to say is that what we define as masculine and feminine in todays society is a bridge that can be crossed by females only. Should a male choose to act in any way "feminine" then he's persecuted.
Why am I saying this? Well I think it backs up my own claim that, given a choice, I see no reason why certain men, who don't have GID (or a severe case of it) wouldn't at least consider what life might be like as a female. Being honest, I know as a child I felt that if I were a girl life would be the bomb, or some such. Of course now I don't feel that way. Though I do complain that girls have so much they can do fashion-wise that I can't... Then I throw bottles at them and complain some more (these are my friends, they accept my insanity*.)
*and to avoid further confusion or debate, no, I'm not really crazy.
My main issue is that, there's no real way to test and find out whether or not someones DNA dealt them a wild-card. We can't take a ray-gun and aim it at someone's crotch to determine whether or not they have phantom-genitals.
Furthermore, cultures like the early Native Americans found a way to incorporate people who feel trans gendered or GID without swapping out body parts (have fun kids.) Obviously people such as this child, in my opinion, don't need to change their biology to feel right. I think they just need a society that can accept them.
I guess I look at this situation as you might someone born handicapped. We can use science to help them, but only if it interferes with their life. A person in a wheelchair needs said appliance to get around. Such procedures cost money and take time and are extremely risky. Should we bother changing other people who we can't explicitly know whether or not they do have a problem? And involve them in surgery that costs money, puts their health at risk and costs tax dollars to perform? Or could we do as we've done centuries ago in a time where sticks and rocks where the bees knees and live friggen' life that doesn't revolve around what configuration of shoots and ladders we've got hanging between our legs?
I pretty much agree with you about how women can take on masculine appearances and mannerisms without anyone so much as batting an eyelash, whereas men are not able to do such things.
However, I can see why someone would look at this case and think, "What the hell is wrong with the world today?"
Whether you accept it or not, you are likely to ask that question. Albeit for different reasons. One who doesn't accept it might be thinking "How do people get away with this crap?" and one who does might be thinking "Why is this crap such a big deal?"
I think the more important issue to discuss is the fact that it was the German Tax Payers who paid for the operation. Sucks to be you, BlueScope. :D
However, I can see why someone would look at this case and think, "What the hell is wrong with the world today?"
Whether you accept it or not, you are likely to ask that question. Albeit for different reasons. One who doesn't accept it might be thinking "How do people get away with this crap?" and one who does might be thinking "Why is this crap such a big deal?"
I think the more important issue to discuss is the fact that it was the German Tax Payers who paid for the operation. Sucks to be you, BlueScope. :D
Roman Candle
Member
Well it wasn't exactly a nip and tuck. It wasn't a trivial or superficial decision.
FoxDemonSoavi
Member
I agree a lot with Ixis. There are many transexual women who remain masculine. They fix their bodies. The term "trasngender" should not exist. IT only exists because it is okay for a girl to be a boy. but for a boy to be a girl is degrading.
IF we let boys act and wear what they want we would only have transexual. Crossdress would stop existing, transgedner would stop existing, transvestite would still exist (its a sexual fetish).
And I think many transexuals would be happier. Hell, many people in general would be happier.
Transexuals that are female to male or male to female wouldn't also have to prove that they are transgender (which many have to pretend to be) to get fixed. IT wouldn't be "gender disphoria" it would simply be another intersexed condition.
Transgenders wouldn't think they they also need to change their sex becasue well they don't. And the term would go away as well.
IF we let boys act and wear what they want we would only have transexual. Crossdress would stop existing, transgedner would stop existing, transvestite would still exist (its a sexual fetish).
And I think many transexuals would be happier. Hell, many people in general would be happier.
Transexuals that are female to male or male to female wouldn't also have to prove that they are transgender (which many have to pretend to be) to get fixed. IT wouldn't be "gender disphoria" it would simply be another intersexed condition.
Transgenders wouldn't think they they also need to change their sex becasue well they don't. And the term would go away as well.
$40,000 is a lot of money... Woa.
Them parents must be VERY rich, to do something like that...
And the part about how the parents asked everywhere for phycaiatrists. (hehe, I slaughtered that words spelling)
Man, how could any parent do that?
Not that it is horribly wrong, but I mean... They should of let him get past the puberty before he had that surgery... I mean... That is something he could possibly regret for the rest of his life...
Especially if she grows a beard!
Them parents must be VERY rich, to do something like that...
And the part about how the parents asked everywhere for phycaiatrists. (hehe, I slaughtered that words spelling)
Man, how could any parent do that?
Not that it is horribly wrong, but I mean... They should of let him get past the puberty before he had that surgery... I mean... That is something he could possibly regret for the rest of his life...
Especially if she grows a beard!
Incognitus
Member
It sounds like it's a side effect of the treatment that the child in question went from being twelve to fourteen: Not only had he lost his wingwang, but also two years of her life... :\
I don't really know what to think. I mean, I'm completely apathetic towards the whole thing, except I do think they should have waited for a little bit younger.
Then again, you can't honestly say it would have worked out if he'd waited: The teenage years are probably the most painful of most people's life, so perhaps here this... child has gained an extra boost of happiness.
But just in case... has someone got a sewing kit handy?
I don't really know what to think. I mean, I'm completely apathetic towards the whole thing, except I do think they should have waited for a little bit younger.
Then again, you can't honestly say it would have worked out if he'd waited: The teenage years are probably the most painful of most people's life, so perhaps here this... child has gained an extra boost of happiness.
But just in case... has someone got a sewing kit handy?
It's to bad really that somebody would be that uncomfortable with their gender that they would do something that drastic and pay 40 grand for this kind of surgery. If they want to do it, that's up to them, but the person should be thankful that they got the chromosomes normal, and not with mutations.