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Would the world have been better off if Hitler never gained power

If Hitler had been killed before gaining power, such as when he fought in WWI, would the world have been better off? The automatic answer is yes, but it isn't as clear-cut as it may seem. The way WWI ended without a clear victor pretty much guaranteed that another war was inevitable. Anti-semitism and revenge would have been an easy path to power for any dictator, and it is unlikely that there would be a lack of contenders for the post. If Hitler hadn't took over, whoever did would probably have been much more competent, and would likely have won the following war, bringing Europe and Northern Asia under German control. What do you think?
 
I think you're a fool if you think Hitler was incompetent. The guy ressurected Germany from being a small player, made the UK and France look like fools and brought Germany to a high (debatable) level of Autarky.

Had he not gained power, we'd have had a bigger problem with the USSR. Not in a Cold War fashion- the USA wouldn't have given a shit had they been dragged out of isolationism by WWII - but because the power vacuum created by WWI, which Hitler exploited, would not have been resolved as the end of WWII did. Yes Russia did eventually conquer most of these places, but with a severely weakened nation. Germany would have tried to fight, eventually, under a different leader, but Ii seriously doubt this would have had substance. Germany would have been weakened and therefore opened a gateway to further the ongoing revolution Russia followed during the 20th Century. Russia controlling Germany and other Western Europe continental states would have cemented its strength via Cominterm and likely allowed the state to retain the USSR's control in the 80s.

In other words, the world would most likely have been a far worse place.
 
as opposed to his intentions, Hitler has made us more moral, because his actions shocked the world. I also think Israel wouldn't have been created if it wasn't for that shock.  so no- the world would be worse if Hitler wouldn't exist.. as sad as it sounds.
 
Hitler's only real skill was playing domestic German politics. In everything else, painting, war, foriegn relations, science, he was utterly incompetent. All he really did was restate the dogma of earlier German leaders and exploit existing resentments. Germany was ready to follow a Strong Man, just like in post-revolutionary France.
 
skirtboy":7uvbxt7b said:
Hitler's only real skill was playing domestic German politics.
Oh lord you really need to read up on this
skirtboy":7uvbxt7b said:
The guy managed to take on the majority of the world for six years and conquered East and West Europe. How is that incompetent?

skirtboy":7uvbxt7b said:
foriegn relations,
Hitler is most famous for his diplomatic skill! Have you actually researched this period? Look up appeasement, his alliance with germany, the Rhineland remilitarisation and Austrian invasion.

skirtboy":7uvbxt7b said:
Wrong again. It is still an issue today in medicine because Hitler's science ideas made many breakthroughs. The ethical debate still rages whether we should use these because of the methods used to obtain them. If you meant Hitler himself, I can't name any leaders who've been good at science because they're completely different fields.
 
silver wind":o9zdblix said:
as opposed to his intentions, Hitler has made us more moral, because his actions shocked the world....  ...so no- the world would be worse if Hitler wouldn't exist.. as sad as it sounds.

I completely agree.

Has anyone read Stephen Fry's "Making History"? It's a very good story that deals with this sort of scenario.
 

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Holloway:  I don't have time to really go into this like I usually do here, but Hitler was incredibly incompetent.  The only reason he looks good is that he managed to do a lot of things in the short term by seriously overextending himself that were not sustainable in the long term.  He burned out the supply of natural resources on almost an entire continent; one of the major reasons he lost the war is he ran out of simple things like food and gasoline for his troops.  Most of his big public works projects were only half finished (you can't even see most of them because they were torn down after the war).  The reason for that once again is that he chewed through resource stockpiles and used them up much, much faster than they could be replenished; a lot of what he did manage in terms of manpower was based off slave labor, which also was unsustainable simply because he wasn't interested in caring for the basic needs of his slaves, and they were weakening and dying off faster than he could repopulate them.

This is not the behavior of an intelligent, competent leader.  Part of good leadership on a national level is resource management.  That's not even to mention diplomacy; WWII could have never happened if he had simply been less stubborn in his dealings with other countries.  He was just an insanely irresponsible person.  He's like the guy in an RTS that takes all his money and spends it building his most expensive units, then rushes the enemy with every single force he has including his peons and when he gets trashed by better strategy, then monkeystomped on the turn around, blames it on bad luck.  Honestly I'd be surprised if the dude could win a game of chess, or in the modern age manage a simple game like Sim City, let alone real life diplomacy and population management. 

He was insane, incompetent and incredibly destructive to his country; to take a narrow viewpoint and only look at the 'good' things he a accomplished at the height of productivity in Nazi Germany and cut out everything that came before, after, and the wasteful and unsustainable means he used to accomplish that peak is incredibly shortsighted.  You're looking at a guy who burned down a forest and planted five trees that grew up real big and calling him a great environmentalist, you're looking at a guy who smashed a beach worth of sandcastles and built one turret with a cup and calling him a grand architect.  Seriously man.  He was a failure and a scourge of his own country, nothing positive he did begins to justify or explain the ruin he brought on Europe.

With proper management of manpower, resources, and diplomacy like you see in an actual good leader, even a nutty one like Roosevelt during our own depression during almost the same time, countries can pull themselves out of the kind of depression and recession Germany dealt with and have massive economic booms.  Look at Japan today; it went from being a miserable heap after it was nearly completely destroyed in WWII to being one of the most advanced, fastest growing and most respected countries in the world.  Hirohito ran it into the ground, the leadership after the war built it back up into something stronger and more powerful than his narrow view of the world could have even conceived, and without any of his drastic methods of conquest and subjugation.  That's good leadership, that's amazing and nearly miraculous, not throwing your weight around and building up a little power for a few years and running your nation into the ground in the process, pissing off the entire world and ending up dead and in a heaping ruin of a country.
 
Npyphx said:
This is not the behavior of an intelligent, competent leader.

Because of his reign over a large portion of Europe, he believed that he could take down countries that he didn't eg. Russia. Therefore, he would've been under the impression that, succeeding in taking over Russia and neigbouring countries, that he would have thecontrol over those countries' resources. Unfortunately he made a mistake, and undercalculated.

He was insane, incompetent and incredibly destructive to his country

How so?

He was a failure and a scourge of his own country

No. He suceeded in pulling his entire country out of the Depression, stabilizing the economy and actually helping his country. Maybe in the end, yes. But his plan was not to run his country into the ground.

Research.
 
You have to keep in mind that vicious dictatorships don't remain that way - both South Korea and Taiwan had iron fisted dictators during their modernization, and they transitioned slowly, peacefully, to democratic states.  At the most, Hitler would probably die of old age and then germany would either splinter into smaller states or remain unified under a more liberal leader.
 
This is a pretty interesting subject.

Short term the world would have been better off without the second world war, but longer term the war moved technology on massively (for good or bad depends on point of view). Aircraft technology would be no-where near where it is now if not for the second world war, and it could be argued that computing as a whole stems from Turing's (and others) work at Bletchley Park.

Of course, it's possible that we would have had the war without Hitler. That's possible, but I think he was a contributory factor. As was the treaty of Versaille, in my opinion, but that's an entirely different subject.
 
I think the would would be way worse now.

Because of Hitler a lot of Neo-Darwinists were shut-up.  It was common place to have programs in place to "regulate" the birth of the poor and lame, just look up the beginings of Planned Parenthood.  Unfortunately those trends are returning now, as we see a renewed interest in designer babies.

Hitler although evil to the core was a good example of how not to think...and now that his generation is fading away our generation is picking up where he left off.

Another thing that happened because of Hitler was the creation of Israel.

Without Hitler there probably would be no Israel.  And now that there is an Israel the world is better off.
 
lunarhiro2002":ejz7rn1x said:
Without Hitler there probably would be no Israel.  And now that there is an Israel the world is better off.

The current Israel is probably one of the worst things to ever exist in our lifetimes.
 
lunarhiro2002":2ktay6li said:
And now that there is an Israel the world is better off.

Could you explain this please. I've never understood the "light unto nations" position, and I'd like to know how you think that something like this is true. You're not a religious lunatic, are you?
 
The thing that ultimately led to Hitler's reign was pride.  The Germans were proud of their nation and they were devastated by the Treaty of Versailles.  The treaty was very unfair to Germany.  It essentially blamed them for the entire war and made them pay for most of the reparations of the victorious nations.  If the Treaty of Versailles had never been approved, then I believe the situation would have been different.  However, because of Germany's anger, someone would eventually have taken control and done what Hitler did and possibly worse.  Technology may not be as advanced without World War II, but that would only be because we didn't need it.  We have developed so many destructive "breakthroughs" that we coan destroy entire countries in an instant.  I don't see how this is an "improvement" in technology.

I don't really see how Israel is relevant.  Unless someone is religious or lives in Israel, it hasn't had enough impact on the world to consider it a way to justify that World War II was beneficial.
 
Guardian1239":uv114sl9 said:
I don't really see how Israel is relevant.  Unless someone is religious or lives in Israel, it hasn't had enough impact on the world to consider it a way to justify that World War II was beneficial.

Please clarify that we are both living in the same world.
 

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