what's the deal with CONVERSION?

[Ellie]

What's the big deal with converting people?

I don't get it.

Jehovas Witnesses accosted me at the door today, shoved Watchtower and Jevoha's Kingdom magazines in my hand and said "I'll be back later after you've read them to answer the question on the front." ("Why are we here?")

(Disregarding the fact I was wearing a T-Shirt with a skull on it and we have a shitload of Christmas decorations around the house)

They're here to convert us to their way, obviously.

I understand that anyone's allowed to believe that they want, I have no argument against that. But why must the rest of the world be converted? Surely they also have the right to believe what they want?

And you hear about missionaries, going to foreign countries, and converting them to Christianity/Islam/Atheism/Insert-Belief-Here. Surely if your religion was the right one, they'd be able to believe in it themselves without your intervention, because if your God is the right God then he wouldn't leave out some secluded community in the middle of the Amazon rainforest or whatever.

Gyaaaaaaarrrrrrr. I'm sorry it just annoys me so much, completely wastes your time. Hell, if anything them asking me to join them puts me off joining them. If I don't beleve in their religion now then reading some shitty half-arsed magazine isn't going to make me believe it either.

But then it's not just religion.

Look at members of RMXP.org. You have the anti-anime brigade - those who hate anime, (which is the majority of people here). When someone comes along who likes anime they are instantly pushed around in an attempt to convert them to hating anime. You have emos, and those trying to convert them to not being emos. Whether or not you like what they like, why the fuck does it matter what they like? It doesn't affect you in any way, shape, or form, so why does it matter if someone likes cutting themselves and crying in a corner writing shitty poetry about lovers they never sought to get?

Is it just human nature that everyone HAS to like and believe in what YOU like and believe in?

 

[skirtboy]

Really, it's just that people have a point of view that they want to inform people about. JH's aren't being agressive they're just saying that they may have an answer to many of life's questions, and they want to tell people about it. Missionaries go to show that they serve a God of mercy and compassion, and generally convert by example (why are you gving us so much food? Because God tells me to, would you like me to tell you about him?)

 

[Dissonance]

For religions, most faiths specifically say "spread the word" in them.  It's one of the higher commandments from God in them.  so to not attempt to spread the word, you're not following the religion.

It's funny how it's set up, for them to be able to truthfully say they're following their religion that have to at least try to get others to follow it too :P

 

[arbiter]

;D

 

[Dissonance]

Jehovas Witnesses accosted me at the door today

do what i do, i tell them i'm god and watch them freak out.

I just answer the door naked.

 

[arbiter]

;D

 

[FlippyD]

I just answer the door naked.

A/S/L? *finds a suit, tie, and some crappy pamphlets*

Seriously though,
Religions ask that their members spread the word, however for most people that means being obnoxious and annoying. This in turn makes people react angrily every time someone so much as mentions religion, sadly -_-

The trick though, is to approach people who are already in a bind and looking for religion, I've found. I've NEVER seen a convert who was totally on the ball before converting, or didn't grow up with religion. The ones who convert always look depressed or haggard and have started to think "if only I had religion, then my problems would go away" or "Some serious shit has happened in my life and it's a sign that I need religion." Or, the evangelist tries to convince the person that they have a serious problem that can only be solved through religion. It always has a sleazy salesman feeling to it which is why I hate evangelists almost as much as I hate aethists who bitch about evangelists.

Anime stuff split into new topic ~N

 

[___]

Why are you trying to convert me to your anti-conversionism?! Also, where do I find an atheist missionary, that would be hilarious.

Seriously though, when you're utterly convinced you're right about something based solely on the deeply held 'feeling' that it's true, besides being a sign that you're probably massively ignorant, it drives you to correct the errors of everyone else around you in fits of arrogance and faux-pity. It's sort of like assholes around here who have to correct everyone's spelling and grammar, when you're convinced you're better than everyone else your best way of dealing with that is to try to raise them up (lower them down) to your level, because it's lonely at the top (murky bottom).

I think it also stems from a sort of subconscious fear that you're wrong - you can soothe that fear by gaining converts who then swear their live has improved by coming to know your truth, which using some warped logic you can convince yourself is proof that you're right (tell that to the victims of any of numerous religions and cults who make mass murder an article of faith). The more poor assholes you convert, the more assured you become, and the harder that little splinter of doubt pushes back, thus driving you to get more conversions and other affirmations of faith. Maybe it's a dopamine mechanism like sex or drug addiction?

Anime stuff split into new topic ~N

 

[FlippyD]

Anime stuff split into new topic ~N
Religion, some people just feel happy with their religion, and they're thoroughly convinced it's the only way to go (unless it's Buddhism, which I'm told has a rule where if a doctrine doesn't work, take it out. Very logical and democratic for a philosophy/religion/thing I guess.)

 

[___]

Anime stuff split into new topic ~N
Buddhism is an interesting study in religion because it is sort of democratic, decentralized, and open-minded compared to other religions, but unless you've actually read the teachings of Buddha you're probably not acquainted with how incredibly irrational and ignorant it is at its core. Sort of like when  you're talking about Greek science or philosophy you have to admire them for what they were trying to do and take it in context of the times, but it's still almost comedic to think that people believe some of this shit - I'd more readily take Genesis on faith but maybe that's just cultural bias.

 

[moog]

ixis stop going off topic

 

[FlippyD]

ixis stop going off topic

I tried, but my last post actually IS on topic.

In regards to people who watch anime and try to convert me to watching anime.

 

[arbiter]

;D

 

[moog]

ixis stop going off topic

I tried, but my last post actually IS on topic.

In regards to people who watch anime and try to convert me to watching anime.

enjoy your warn

 

[Dissonance]

All of you STOP SHITTING UP MY BOARD.  :|

 

[Ellie]

This is exactly my point - I personally hate anime, yeah, and I get it that other people hate whatever, but why do you need to go around crusading making sure everyone else hates anime too?

 

[dadevvtsvre]

It really bugs me when people try and convert me or someone else to their ways. It's not bad at all if they just want to talk to you about it and share their beliefs, but when they shove it in your face, that's when there's a problem.

I actually know quite a bit about Jehovah's Witnesses and their faith. My Mom practices it and I sometimes go to their meetings. They're not the insanse cultists everyone makes them out to be, in fact they're actually quite nice people. I'd rather talk to a Witness anyday than a priest. I do have to agree with some of their beliefs but for the most part I disagree. However, it's interesting to see people's views on it. The practice of forcing beliefs though goes far beyond religion unfortunately and extends into all parts of the world. In school, you're forced to learn what they tell you, even if it's against what you believe. 'Course, you can always just pretend, but it's much worse in other parts of the world. I'm not an expert in foreign culture or anything like that so I'm not really in a position to give an educated opinion but all I know is that forcing beliefs is wrong. (I think we all knew that though)

 

[moog]

It really bugs me when people try and convert me or someone else to their ways. It's not bad at all if they just want to talk to you about it and share their beliefs, but when they shove it in your face, that's when there's a problem.

I actually know quite a bit about Jehovah's Witnesses and their faith. My Mom practices it and I sometimes go to their meetings. They're not the insanse cultists everyone makes them out to be, in fact they're actually quite nice people. I'd rather talk to a Witness anyday than a priest. I do have to agree with some of their beliefs but for the most part I disagree. However, it's interesting to see people's views on it. The practice of forcing beliefs though goes far beyond religion unfortunately and extends into all parts of the world. In school, you're forced to learn what they tell you, even if it's against what you believe. 'Course, you can always just pretend, but it's much worse in other parts of the world. I'm not an expert in foreign culture or anything like that so I'm not really in a position to give an educated opinion but all I know is that forcing beliefs is wrong. (I think we all knew that though)

Wow, this is EXACTLY what I was going to post. I know alot about them too. My father's side of the family are a bunch of German christians who I dont really like (they are mean and religious hypocrites). My mother's side of the family was raised this way (and when I was younger I had to attend alot of meetings and such) and my grandmother is a extreme JH. They really arent bad people (as far as I know, being raised around alot of them when I was about 5-10 yrs old)

They have alot of outlandish views but they also have some I agree on. They discourage alot of extracurriculars and whatnot, which is where I split since I wanted to pursue a career in musical education. Plus, I didnt really believe in alot of things they preached at said meetings, but oh well. I still attend a meeting once a year to favor my grandmother since she is pretty old and that's all she asks of us to do.

Imo they really dont CONVERT YOU I mean they try but Ive never met one who is compelled to make you one of them if you dont accept their talks and stuff, but thats just how it is around here.

I have a twin sister who is very adamant in this religion, but she has never forced any thing on me. In fact, she and I have a pretty good relationship and she still picks on me and stuff :p

 

[___]

Actually I take full responsibility for the anime thing, I should have split that into a new topic when it started, that was my bad.

As far as Jehova's witnesses go, my grandfather-in-law died of a treatable illness because he was JH and didn't believe in medicine. It was extremely painful for him, and for his family, including my wife. While I respect him for having the conviction to go through something like that for his beliefs, I will never consider JH anything but a cult, bringing cruelty and suffering on people through indoctrination and fear. It's great that they are nice people, that's wonderful, but I believe they could be nice people outside the structure of an exploitative and brutal religion. The religion is a scourge upon humanity and has lead to the unnecessary suffering and death of innocent people and there's no excuse for that. Innocently or otherwise, every person they badger and eventually indoctrinate into their faith is one more person who will live a shorter and more miserable life - which is fine, if as sane adults they chose that, but then you have to consider the fact that they are raising children into this crap (and/or letting them die of simple ilnesses) too which is unconscionable to me.

 

[___]

Okay all that anime stuff split off into a new thread, and once again, that really was my fault. Any more posting on it in this thread will get a warn, if you want to go on about the topic more you can find Ixis and I over at Anime Sucks - Split.