Vegetarianism

[bacon]

Vegetarianism


In society today, many of us are accustomed to eating meat. Yet, as the years pass by, we hear more and more about not eating meat and instead totally eliminating meats from are daily diets and instead eating "greener" foods that are not from animals nor eat foods that is made through animal labor. What do you think?

• Do you think we should totally exclude meat and animal processed foods out of our diets?
• Do you think eating meat is cruel?
• Do you think that semi-vegetarianism, where you eat fish, poultry, and animal processed foods, is okay?
• Do you think there should be change in how we acquire meat?
• Do you think that vegetarianism or non-vegetarianism is healthy?
• Do you think vegetarianism is being forcefully pushed on society?

Share your thoughts and insights here!

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Dalton]

Second Arbiters thought, plus:

Look at you mouth... Do you see those nice lttle fangs? They are there to eat meat. It is in human nature to eat meat, why should it be wrong to do so?
I don't care if someone chooses to be a vegatarian, but they better not try to tell me to be one.

 

[006]

I'm a Vegetarian, but I choose not to eat meat, I don't think eating meat is bad, I mean I don't look down on people who do. It's just because I don't want to. I eat cheese, drink milk, have eggs, so I'm not vegan, I just find being Vegetarian gives me more energy. It really comes down to, Do you want to eat meat, or don't you. Nobodies trying to force you, expect some protesters. Plus being vegetarian is cheaper!

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Zekallinos]

Some people tend to think that killing animals for consumption is a cruel thing done to them. Now that would mean that the way nature developed itself is cruel, however it isn't, and let's see why.

When you eat something, it's not like you're sending all the meat into nothingness to extract energy. The basic law of conservation states that all matter cannot disappear. That would mean that everything that goes into your body eventually goes out. Even in the form of the carbon dioxide gas you exhale - it is, yes, food for the plants. These said plants will become food for the other cows or chickens. Eventually, even you decomposing body will feed millions of micro-organisms.

In other word, by eating an animal, you are merely feeding a hundred others. Is it a bad thing now?

So no matter what people say, it is part of human nature. Even if we don't have claws (it has been replaced by the brain).

Then, as mentioned before, being vegetarian is not, in reality, good for health. It is not a solution to obesity, either, as I once was pointed out. That is about eating too much fat and not exercising. Not eating meat at all is quite a cheap way out. It's like bypassing the problem altogether rather then facing it.

Lastly, the grain we save by not using it for raising livestocks - yes, it would feed everyone on earth, but as if it's going to get to the poor people.

I have nothing against being vegetarian, especially considering how harmless it is, but I often doubt their reasons to be so.

 

[Zelfouz]

blink_, could you list off the nutrients that you supposedly are unable to get from any source?

I know several vegetarians and vegans (I am also a vegan) who do not take any supplements who are not pale and weak as you suggest. I know at least one vegan who is slightly overweight, rather than being as thin as a lamppost. I know at least one vegetarian who is extremely physically active, rock climbing and hiking and going on bicycle tours as often as she can. I am also pretty physically active, riding my bicycle long distances regularly. With a wide and varied diet, all of the necessary nutrients that meat contains can be acquired without much difficulty.

As far as I am aware, there is only one exception, which is vitamin B12. But we need that only in very small amounts and it is added to a number of things, so even that is not as hard to get from non-meat sources as you seem to think.


to the OP: I don't think eating meat is cruel. It's obvious that humans are omnivores by nature. But in todays world, we are capable of excluding meat and still being healthy, unlike millenia ago, so I don't think that is relevant anymore. I do think it should be excluded from our diets as much as possible, though, for the sake of efficiency. The resources required to produce meat are absurdly great in comparison to producing produce. In a world where people starve to death on a daily basis and the excessive use of resources is destroying the environment, to keep relying heavily on such an inefficient food source seems to me to be unethical.

I agree with blink_ on the subject of vegetarians who eat fish. I think vegetarianism is being forced upon society just as much as I think Christianity is being opressed in the USA. Omnivores are in the majority. There is a vocal minority of vegans and vegetarians who are trying to make change, but I don't think they could opress you even if they wanted to.

As for health, I think vegetarianism or non-vegetarianism is irrelevant. A vegan can eat a wide variety of foods and be extremely healthy, and an omnivore can eat steaks all day and get scurvy. You can be healthy or unhealthy with either dietary choice.

eta: In terms of cost, it's more expensive if you rely on meat subsitutes rather than eating a wide variety of real food. I stopped eating meat, and I've honestly lost the desire to eat it again. I for one do not waste my money on replacing it.

eta2:

Lastly, the grain we save by not using it for raising livestocks - yes, it would feed everyone on earth, but as if it's going to get to the poor people.

Why wouldn't it? Supply and demand. If we suddenly had a massive increase in how much food was available, meaning a much greater supply, why wouldn't the cost decrease proportionally and make it easier for the poor folks to eat?

 

[Ellie]

I'm a vegetarian, though purely because I can't stand meat, fish, poultry, and it's just damned easier than having to tell everyone I don't like the food they're cooking.

I tried a KFC burger the other day and nearly through up.

I would never push my "views" on anybody as to animal welfare or what we should be eating or anything. All the same, I find it absolutely disgusting that people like my nan hide meat in my food to try and change my ways; if someone doesn't want to eat something it's up to them and not up to you.

I found that after dropping meat from my diet my health actually improved, though that is most likely due to simply a better diet than simply dropping meat, as before becoming a veggie I never ate any meat anyway. Occassionally salmon steaks, which used to be delicious but I grew out of and taste disgusting now. ;-;

I think that both meat eaters and vegetarians should mind their own fucking business, just like with religion. Eat what you want to eat, don't eat what you don't; it's not up to you to be a prophet and change the world ~.

 

[Dalton]

Well on the health factor... Actually my doctor suggested to eat a little less meat, but I am a special case, so I guess it doesn't count (meat includes stuff that if I get to much of it makes my illness worse).

However it is proven that it is not healthy to eat meat every day. Actually you should only eat it once or twice a weak. However the change is so insignificant that you actually are unlikely to notice.

And on the topic of forcing meat onto vegeterians: I think that is plain stupid. Everyone is free to eat or not to eat whatever they want to (unless eating it would be considered illegal). So people shouldn't try to change those views. It is just food.

 

[mawk]

I'm a Vegetarian, but I choose to eat meat

you're not a vegetarian

 

[Zekallinos]

Why wouldn't it? Supply and demand. If we suddenly had a massive increase in how much food was available, meaning a much greater supply, why wouldn't the cost decrease proportionally and make it easier for the poor folks to eat?

Doesn't work that way. To begin with, countries such as US or Canada already have a big supply, an excess. But yet, thousands are still dying per day in Korea, African countries and various other places. Prices drop when the supply is high, that is a true fact. However, the other condition for prices to drop is a low demand, which certainly isn't the case. The lowest price of a given product is when at that point, a given amount of people buys all the supply, no more, no less. Africans simply can't afford any supply at all, so they don't even count in the demand. When they will start getting money or the price is going to get low enough, the demand is going to skyrocket, so prices will go up again.

Then, there is a supply of product, a demand for products and then...how do you transport it? By the time everyone becomes a vegetarian, we will have reached the oil crash (we're already past the oil peak). In the rare cases we are willing to send the food for free (how else do you want Africa to get the said supply), we are not willing to pay for transport. And what about the environnement?

Plus, how about other products, such as milk? Are we going to condone milk too? But we can't have milk without having both cows and beefs right (since it takes both to make babies)? How about eggs? Is it meat?

And while prices may drop a little, you're not fixing the problem of vegetarianism (enough economy). If by becoming vegans we allow poor countries to eat more, those people will start wanting meat themselves. A few decades in China, people were so poor that they could only get meat a few times a year. Now they are not so poor, and KFCs are popping all over the place (trust me). Actually, the same was true in medieval europe, or pretty much everywhere else for that matter. So those countries are simply going to eat the meat you are not eating.

And on the topic of forcing meat onto vegeterians: I think that is plain stupid. Everyone is free to eat or not to eat whatever they want to (unless eating it would be considered illegal). So people shouldn't try to change those views.

I believe this is the right way of thinking, as long as they don't start forcing us into not eating meat. People need to realize that openness to differences goes both way.

 

[006]

I'm a Vegetarian, but I choose to eat meat, I don't think eating meat is bad, I mean I don't look down on people who do. It's just because I don't want to. I eat cheese, drink meat,

o.0

I'm a Vegetarian, but I choose to eat meat

you're not a vegetarian

Damn it, it was like 10pm over here when I wrote that. Pretty misleading typos though :haha: .

I would never push my "views" on anybody as to animal welfare or what we should be eating or anything. All the same, I find it absolutely disgusting that people like my nan hide meat in my food to try and change my ways; if someone doesn't want to eat something it's up to them and not up to you.

Yeah, that happened to my sister at my grandmothers place, she had quite a bit before she noticed the bacon. She was throwing up for hours. She's very against meat though, she doesn't even have eggs.

EDIT:

Not really, one example is quorn (or however it is spelled), quorn is a meat substitute for vegetarians, and quorn is more expensive than some meats.

What the hell is Qourn? O_o

 

[Venetia]

I'm sick of this debate personally but I wanted to interject:

I tried a KFC burger the other day and nearly through up.

WTF KFC's in Britland serve burgers??????

Kentucky Fried ChickAnything???

o.O

I can only assume that would be horrible.

Though I've heard from these people I knew who used to live in England that the beef there was absolutely horrid (on average) compared to a lot of the stuff you could get in Ameriland. I guess it's more sinewy over there or something because of the difference in terrain and grain quality? But that's only their opinion, I don't have any basis of comparison, myself.

 

[Venetia]

I would never push my "views" on anybody as to animal welfare or what we should be eating or anything. All the same, I find it absolutely disgusting that people like my nan hide meat in my food to try and change my ways; if someone doesn't want to eat something it's up to them and not up to you.

Yeah, that happened to my sister at my grandmothers place, she had quite a bit before she noticed the bacon. She was throwing up for hours. She's very against meat though, she doesn't even have eggs.

a.) Drama queen.

b.) Feeling sick from eating something that you never eat is natural. It is independent from the quality or usefulness of the food itself. Your body becomes tolerant to a forced diet no matter what you do. We are designed to eat everything, but when that is not available, our palates change based on the availability of food and the necessity we feel. When you get less protein in your diet your body makes up for it by consuming it less, thereby making you need it less, thereby making protein-rich foods less desirable. It is only when the body goes through starvation that we crave what we are lacking.
When someone is used to a meat-rich diet in lieu of a vegan one, suddenly switching to vegetarianism often causes them to get really sick and vomit, too.

 

[Ellie]

No chicken

What else would you call it o.O

 

[mawk]

that is the tiniest bottle of pepsi

 

[silver wind]

I used to be a Vegetarian, but stopped because it made me very weak. (lack of Iron, had to take pills.)
However this is a personal problem- there are many Vegetarians who take supplements and gain all the nutrients they need from them.
Being a Vegetarian is not unhealthy. On the contrary, Both milk and Meat products are not healthy. Not quite what they teach kids at school, but it's true.(Conspiracy? more likely it's lack of knowledge). People who consume less meat/milk products, are less prone to have various health problems, and researches indicate they live longer.

 

[Venetia]

No chicken

What else would you call it o.O

chicken sandwich

burger=cow

unless you're in a fancy restaurant

then = salmon? duck? venison? rabbit? etc etc
but never chicken

 

[Venetia]

...On the contrary, Both milk and Meat products are not healthy. Not quite what they teach kids at school, but it's true.(Conspiracy? more likely it's lack of knowledge). People who consume less meat/milk products, are less prone to have various health problems, and researches indicate they live longer.

1.) girls need calcium, esp. pre-menstrual ones. you get more calcium from dairy than elsewhere. without it, expect a fun time with osteoporosis and broken hips in later life.

2.) protein is used in regenerating skin cells, hair follicles, muscle tissue, etc etc

3.) dairy contains lactic acid, which is used in breaking down then repairing muscular tissue

4.) red meat contains iron. while some vegetables contain iron, red meat trumps it by leaps and bounds.

5.) meats contain all amino acids we require to run for a day efficiently in a single serving. supplements can only manage a percentage of these amino acids, not all.

6.) fish contains omega-3 fatty acids, which may reduce the risk for alzheimer's, and it lowers the amount of cholesterol in your body over time. it also reduces blood pressure.

7.) vitamin d is most present in dairy products. without it you cannot efficiently regenerate/repair bone or heart tissue. you can get it in supplements but actually this has been proven several times to be an imperfect substitute.

etc.


you can try to say that you don't need meat or dairy until you are blue in the face. but the fact of the matter is, we are designed to eat meat and animal products to run efficiently. the needs for these acids and minerals will become more apparent as you age. having a balanced diet will ensure you live longer. of course an 18 year old vegan will feel fine. an 18 year old anything will feel fine. a 50 year old on an imbalanced diet, in either direction, likely will not.
note that the key word is balanced.
both food groups are important.
both. are. important.

 

[Ellie]

Wtf, a sandwich implies bread from a loaf, not baps o.O you silly Americans

Eating meat and/or dairy products is only healthier with the right diet. It's the same with anything. A lot of people, when they switch from meat to veg (or veg to meat) don't replace that extra product with anything similar, so they screw up their diet and they are unhealthy. BUT. It's perfectly possible to get all yous nutrients without supplements in both cases. Meat isn't the only place you find protein, for example.

You find that the healthier diet you're probably talking about (Asian, mostly fish, hardly any meat or dairy) has a LOT more to it than just "no meat or dairy".