Welcome to HBGames, a leading amateur game development forum and Discord server. All are welcome, and amongst our ranks you will find experts in their field from all aspects of video game design and development.
okay guys here's one that i need your help with. i am humbly asking for the assistance of this community.
trains
tell me all you know about them (and don't be smartasses and be like "they go on tracks lol"). this is for a major project of mine (non-rmxp) and i need to do some major research.
obviously my starting point is wikipedia, and it is fantastic for general stuff but my story is taking place ON THE TRAINS THEMSELVES and i really need to get the FEEL and stuff for TRAIN LIFE.
if anybody knows any good resources that really get into the detail of trains and their crews and how they're mangaed and how they work it would be seriously appreciated.
even more, if anybody has any experience working on trains or railroads or knows anybody who may be able to talk to me it would be seriously appreciated
Umm... what do you mean by "trains", as the common visual for me is more of a chugga chugga choo choo variety. My "brother" works on the NJ Light Rail, which looks more like a stream line subway than what I picture with trains, and I've often taken trains - mind you these again are more like subways than the normal type.
I'm pretty sure it's the sound the horn used to make on older victorian type steam trains and the onomatoepeia has just lived on, and even modern trains make annoying horn noises that sound kinda like that when they pass through places with level crossings.
At the risk of sounding facetious, take a ride on one. It doesn't necessarily have to be an overnight trip, but that would certainly help your case, it seems. And, of course, you'll be able to speak with conductors and maitenence crews and all sorts of people while aboard. There's no better way to learn about an aspect of life than to live it and speak with those who do.
Well, I remember that the old steam trains I used to take to get to Banten did, in fact, make such a noise, due to the steam whistling out as it escaped from the boiler.
Although it IS true that modern trains do not do this.
At the risk of sounding facetious, take a ride on one. It doesn't necessarily have to be an overnight trip, but that would certainly help your case, it seems. And, of course, you'll be able to speak with conductors and maitenence crews and all sorts of people while aboard. There's no better way to learn about an aspect of life than to live it and speak with those who do.
I plan to at some point. There's a local steam train ride thing that's somewhat of an amusement thing for people. I did it when I was a little kid, I remeber. I'd like to take a ride on that and spend some time talking with the crew.
I mean I've been on trains multiple times before but it was just a typical passenger thing, like whenever i go to new york city.
But still, any internet resources and stuff you guys could give me would still be a great help. It would be nice to know as much as possible before talking to an actual conductor and seeming like an idiot.
look in gaydads. there's a topic for wumpi that explains some of it.
also the following is repasted from my topic on gw. it might help you guys understand the kind of stuff that i'm looking for:
LIVING on a train (cooking, eating, sleeping, etc).
personally-owned trains (owning your own train for the fun of it (or freelance cargo shipments??? idk) rather than working on a company's train)
could a single person operate a train? maybe not realistically but with enhancements/machines etc how plausible/possible is this??
autopilot/cruise control????
if we lived in a world that was far more spread out than it is and we didn't really have cars and stuff, and everything between cities was pretty much trains, how would train tracks work? in terms of being interconnected and stuff, and rail switches and the like (or even is this plausible at all?)
trains cannot TURN right?
that kind of stuff. i'm VERY much intersted in the whole possibility of living on a moving train.
see the problem is that i came up with this world and story without knowing much about trains themseles. and by now i have invested so much into the story and characters, and it's time to actually DO SOMETHING with this and i realize that i don't know enough to make it realistic in any way!!
LIVING on a train (cooking, eating, sleeping, etc).
Much like living on any other self-contained transport vehicle, such as a houseboat or whatever. If you want more details I'll try and pull it up, but you should be able to extrapolate from that. personally-owned trains (owning your own train for the fun of it (or freelance cargo shipments??? idk) rather than working on a company's train)
It would be much smaller and more simply managed, but I doubt it'd work very easily if it was a steam train or whatever, since those need constant fueling to keep going. Since that seems to be what you're going for, I'd probably say that it'd be more likely to have AT LEAST two or three people on a 'personal train'. could a single person operate a train? maybe not realistically but with enhancements/machines etc how plausible/possible is this??
It's possible, I guess, but it'd need some extremely advanced machinery to maintain speed, stop when nearing stations, beware of breaks in the track, maintain fuel supplies, and so on. I suppose that if it's a technologically advanced world that just never really left the whole train model of transport it's doable, but in that case you'd need a steampunk variation or the whole thing is moot. autopilot/cruise control????
Difficult but doable if it could somehow keep track of coal in the furnace, temperature, location and where to stop. Again, quite advanced, although the 'autopilot' wouldn't be anything near as complex, since trains can't turn or in any way deviate from a set track. if we lived in a world that was far more spread out than it is and we didn't really have cars and stuff, and everything between cities was pretty much trains, how would train tracks work? in terms of being interconnected and stuff, and rail switches and the like (or even is this plausible at all?)
It's plausible - here's how it'd work. You'd have several (at least eight to ten) tracks going from city to city, and at each city or major hub you'd have an apparatus (basically a rotating floor with tracks on it) that would be able to turn trains around in new directions. Rail switches and so on would take a bit more work, but would potentially be doable, though I think it'd be more likely for the inhabitants of that world to just stick to rotational platforms and pairs of tracks (one for each direction) than to have complex shunting apparutuses since they'd already have the established technology to do it without having to develop switches and such. trains cannot TURN right?
Correct - they're guided by the rails of the track. If the rails gradually turn, the train turns. That's really it.
EDIT: This is really just off the top of my head, but I can get a whole shitload more of info if you want it.
East-Indian Express train kinda feel:
- Cramped.
- Noisy.
- Bumpy.
- Dusty.
- Dirty.
- Stuffed.
- Cheap.
- Close to others. (that's negative, but can be positive)
- Hot.
- Irritating.
- Tiring.
Hyper-modern sonicboom trains:
- Cramped.
- There's this monotone.. buzz.
- Smooth.
- Clean.
- Fresh.
- More space for yourself.
- Expensive.
- Close to others. (Still)
- A/C.
- Tiring.
I do realize this is a lousy post, but I'm half asleep.
Now, these are only two examples of feelings you might experience while being on such typical trains.
Of course there are thousands of types of trains from ultra-luxurious to cheap-as-fuck.
One thing goes for all types though..
Being on a train feels cramped, and kinda locked-in, if not for various breaks.
You cannot spend a long time whilst being on a train.
(of course, there are exceptions)
Where I come from, trains are almost always late. Just the other day I was at the station and this one train had 3 hours delay.
And honestly it is nothing that happens rarely (Especially if you are taking the ICE).
Still other nations kinda believe our trains are always on time.
Also our trains are always very... broken. Doors do not work sometimes the whole train just can't start anymore (creating delay again), because the railway company doesn't repare it ,because if the damge goes up to 70% (I don't know how they calculate this one) the state has to pay for it.
That are two aspects how trains are in germany. Hope this helps.
This for example, is at some places in Japan a pretty common happening during rush hour. (in some places.)
There are a lot of examples to take a look at.
My Dad has worked for the Chicago transit authority since I was a toddler, and we've built model trains, gone to train museums and ridden on trains all of our lives. Here's some information I'd suggest to you.
LIVING on a train (cooking, eating, sleeping, etc).
You can live on a train (here in the city hobos ride the rails 24/7.) Not to mention the larger travel trains that cross state lines and such have beds, dining cars and other amenities. It all depends on what kind of trains you're talking about. If it's for a story about a world covered with trains I'd assume they'd be the larger passenger travel trains.
personally-owned trains (owning your own train for the fun of it (or freelance cargo shipments??? idk) rather than working on a company's train)
You could own your own train no problem, the real issue is the train tracks. Railroad companies own these tracks, and can run them anyway they want. For obvious reasons the railroad companies keep track of what's on what track and where they're going (nobody wants to solve the old "two trains are on the same track heading for each other at 80MPH, where will they collide and when?" math problem in real life). Also the railroad companies usually save their tracks for their own trains. If you want freelance trains in your world you need a system in place whereby trains can keep track of where they are and where other trains are, as well as stations used to switch train tracks, repair trains, refuel trains, etc.
could a single person operate a train? maybe not realistically but with enhancements/machines etc how plausible/possible is this??
Yes, unless it's a steam powered train or the old school diesel ones. Most trains nowadays are piloted by one person.
autopilot/cruise control????
Again, it depends on the kind of train. Most electric trains could run this way, and in a fictional world it would be completely fine to have auto-pilot options for trains.
if we lived in a world that was far more spread out than it is and we didn't really have cars and stuff, and everything between cities was pretty much trains, how would train tracks work? in terms of being interconnected and stuff, and rail switches and the like (or even is this plausible at all?)
See my answer on personally owned trains. It's possible, but trains would all need a system in place with technology so they could talk to one another, as well as central stations. Perhaps you should research airports or ship ports. Both planes and boats have open communication for one another with radios, as well as maps and schematics for determining where most ships or planes in one area are. You don't want to crash into another plane mid-flight, and you wouldn't want to crash into another train. Also, I'd suggest having different colored or style train tracks depending on what direction the tracks go. This way train conductors could make sure they're train is going west on a westbound track, or north on a northbound track, etc.
Here are some things I found doing research you may find useful for your project. You already said you wiki'd it so i will not bother with wiki'ing.
http://solarsteamtrain.com/cms/content/view/13/28/
Here is an idea for a method of powering trains with steam that involves solar energy.
Basically (from what I gather), there are "recharge" points on the track. The train can go about 95 miles on a single tank of solar-charged energy, which heats the steam only to a point. There is an extra supply of energy applied just before the pistons, which will convert only small amounts of water to steam, thereby making the steam last longer.
Only a single person would need to operate this, and perhaps a second person to help the conductor recharge. Regular, antique steam trains boil the water all at once using tons and tons of coal, thereby making single-person operation impossible unless there was no conductor and the train ran REALLY slow.
This is based, of course, off the engine alone, with no passenger cars. FOr fantasy purposes you could extend that to maybe one passenger car and a little more distance.
--
Maintenance of the tracks is a key component, since even a small amount of debris or bends/warps/fractures in the track could not only damage the train, but POSSIBLY derail it (although it's NOT as hard to derail a train as your teachers would tell you in school). Really, only one wheel/spoke thing needs to be derailed for all cars after the first car to derail.
A model electric train car possessing various movable parts which allow the train car's pivotally-mounted truck and coupler assembly to maneuver around tight curves without interference from model train steps, skirts or other train car parts in close proximity to the train coupler, thereby, avoiding derailment of the toy train. The steps, skirts or other train parts to swing, slide, rotate, or otherwise move away from the truck and coupler assembly, being attached to the train car by pins, hinges, slides, snap connectors or the like to allow the free movement of the train parts.
trains cannot TURN normally but they're made into segments so they can bend. The curvature they'd be capable of obtaining is only proportionate to the amount of space between cars, plus the length of the longest car.
--
to turn a train around on a track, typically, you would hook up an engine facing the opposite direction onto the cars (they're rectangular so they can look normal going backwards or forwards).
To rotate a train 180 degrees that has only one engine, you'd have to set the thing up on a cylindrical rotating track,
(example):http://www.flickr.com/photos/shawnide/358200283/in/set-72157594315205057/
Or else you would have to end the rail in a loop headed the other direction, then switch tracks to the old one.
Modern passenger trains typically have two engines: one in the front, one in the back. When you reach the end of the rails, the conductor just goes to the other engine facing the opposite direction. Engines are MUCH heavier than boxcars however so if it ran on steam, this might present too large of a problem/fuel eater. I read somewhere (forgot link) that boxcars weigh about 19 tons, not sure about engines, but I can only assume they weigh a LOTLOTLOT more since they're comprised of heavier materials ... plus the engine itself ...
There's a type of steam engine called a Garratt tank, which is more powerful, more efficient, and holds more fuel. They are not terribly modern, but there are some garratt types which still run today.
each major train (all privately owned) in my story has a crew of three or four people, although there's one train in particular that only has one person (and his young daughter), which is what prompts the question.
you'd have an apparatus (basically a rotating floor with tracks on it) that would be able to turn trains around in new directions. Rail switches and so on would take a bit more work, but would potentially be doable, though I think it'd be more likely for the inhabitants of that world to just stick to rotational platforms and pairs of tracks (one for each direction) than to have complex shunting apparutuses since they'd already have the established technology to do it without having to develop switches and such.
this is a fantastic idea. i can totally picture a massive steampunk'ed out grand central withy massive turning floors and shit.
I suppose that if it's a technologically advanced world that just never really left the whole train model of transport it's doable, but in that case you'd need a steampunk variation or the whole thing is moot.
this is actually a FANTASTIC description of the world i'm working with here. picture america in the 1800s when trains and steam power were all the rage, and pretend that it just KEPT GOING and trains were never really replaced with cars.
it's actually a fictionalized and altered version of our own world (ie. a major location is Grand Central station in New York City)
My Dad has worked for the Chicago transit authority since I was a toddler, and we've built model trains, gone to train museums and ridden on trains all of our lives. Here's some information I'd suggest to you.
yes and no. VERY FEW PEOPLE actually ride trains. trains are primarily operated and used by individuals who own them. the world is full of massive cities which are very large and very populated, and the vast majority of people spend their whole lives in these cities. the story is about the types of people who make their lives on trains and live beyond the limitations of cities
You could own your own train no problem, the real issue is the train tracks. Railroad companies own these tracks, and can run them anyway they want. For obvious reasons the railroad companies keep track of what's on what track and where they're going (nobody wants to solve the old "two trains are on the same track heading for each other at 80MPH, where will they collide and when?" math problem in real life). Also the railroad companies usually save their tracks for their own trains. If you want freelance trains in your world you need a system in place whereby trains can keep track of where they are and where other trains are, as well as stations used to switch train tracks, repair trains, refuel trains, etc.
what if train tracks are public, owned and operated by the government. trains have radio contact with "operator" stations who run the switches and keep tabs on where trains are, and the operatros could also link trains contact with each other. tracks would also be painted in a way that signifieis the direction so we dont have to worry about crashes
plausible?
ok venetia those are some cool shit you have found !!! :D
rechargableareas on the tracks is a rad idea. lots of long-ass boring-looking text on that page but i'm sure it will be worth it when i get around to reading it.
Maintenance of the tracks is a key component, since even a small amount of debris or bends/warps/fractures in the track could not only damage the train, but POSSIBLY derail it (although it's NOT as hard to derail a train as your teachers would tell you in school). Really, only one wheel/spoke thing needs to be derailed for all cars after the first car to derail.
this is actually something i'm aware of and have plans to implement it into the story (one scene i imagine actually has some characters using MASSIVE TRAIN JACKS to re-rail a train car)
keep it coming guys this is good stuff (expecially you ixis gimme more more more )
