The Soul And Its Purpose/Destination
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Perihelion
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There is no purpose in life, or at least no purpose beyond what you assign to it. Life isn't intrinsically special; like the rest of the universe around us, we're mere chunks of matter, just ones that, due to the coincidence of evolution, are executing somewhat more complex routines of chemical interactions than other chunks. With modern science, the idea of a soul is outdated; who we are is tied inextricably to the structure of our brains and bodies, and the concept of an afterlife is a fantasy invented to take away the fear of oblivion.
i completely disagree with you peri. or at least on most of what you said.
the idea of a soul isn't outdated at all, depending on how you view the soul. if you think the soul is something that should be able to be analyzed, then no we don't have souls. when one thinks the soul is something that doesn't exist in our three dimensions then the possibility still exists. it's more a matter of how you define the soul that matters in this discussion.
because i believe i'm pretty sensitive to psychic energy, i'm either biased or more enlightened (or crazy). but from what i've experienced, there's certainly something more to us than just flesh and bones. even before i was psychic, my family has lived in some majorly haunted places. and they're not like that "hey let's talk about this" attitude, they're always kinda embarrassed about it, which implies that it's more than just talk. and there are certainly quite a few people who have experienced similar things otherwise hauntings wouldn't be so controversial. but i'm getting further and further into the no-one-really-cares territory, so i'll answer lyric's questions.
agree
disagree
the idea of a soul isn't outdated at all, depending on how you view the soul. if you think the soul is something that should be able to be analyzed, then no we don't have souls. when one thinks the soul is something that doesn't exist in our three dimensions then the possibility still exists. it's more a matter of how you define the soul that matters in this discussion.
because i believe i'm pretty sensitive to psychic energy, i'm either biased or more enlightened (or crazy). but from what i've experienced, there's certainly something more to us than just flesh and bones. even before i was psychic, my family has lived in some majorly haunted places. and they're not like that "hey let's talk about this" attitude, they're always kinda embarrassed about it, which implies that it's more than just talk. and there are certainly quite a few people who have experienced similar things otherwise hauntings wouldn't be so controversial. but i'm getting further and further into the no-one-really-cares territory, so i'll answer lyric's questions.
i believe a soul is made of an extra layer of energy that humans and some other creatures house. it exists in a realm/dimension/whateverthehellyouwannacallit that we can't see, but certain people can feel. the "soul" is a sort of container for that energy that would otherwise be drifting.
oh you non-believers are going to love this one. i believe souls are pulled from our bodies shortly after death and take a few different routes. the first is that they go to beings i call "soul collectors" that exist in the spirit realm to be sorted for reincarnation. the second is that the energy (aka soul) is so attached to this realm that it lingers (either residually or intelligently). thirdly, a soul can break and its energy can be dispersed. fourth is a soul can volunteer to be a spirit guide. look that last one up because i don't feel like explaining what a spirit guide is. :P
no afterlife outside of existing somewhere between this realm and the spirit realm
a little while after we're born (not before or during) we're given a soul - either created from the energy i believe lingers or from someone who's being reincarnated. then we go through life and our souls take one of the paths described above.
i believe souls can be dispersed and that they can literally "shatter", but i also believe that they're just a part of the greater energy that exists around us. our ultimate purpose here should be to improve our species just because we should fight for our own survival, but we ultimately make our own purpose as we go through life.
if you view the "soul" as the personality of a person, what makes them different, and is shaped by both the amalgamation of their DNA and the experiences and decisions they have had in life, then yeah, they exist. Though not in any tangible way. You can't just remove a brain and point out what makes it unique, personality-wise.
if you view the "soul" as some magical ghost which defines your consciousness and is still active even in death, that's not something which can be proven nor disproven (or given a reasonable argument in either direction), and isn't really debatable, as there aren't any facts or total non-facts to persuade anyone who already has their mind made up about it.
this feels like another religion debate IMO
if you view the "soul" as some magical ghost which defines your consciousness and is still active even in death, that's not something which can be proven nor disproven (or given a reasonable argument in either direction), and isn't really debatable, as there aren't any facts or total non-facts to persuade anyone who already has their mind made up about it.
this feels like another religion debate IMO
if it turns into one at least the boots remain hard and the asses remain soft
never understood why everything had to be done via psychopomp but I guess dead people gotta keep busy
anyway I don't see a soul as something that anyone's necessarily born with, or something that everyone comes to acquire. there are people who just don't have a soul at all, but then again my definition is more abstract than most people's and it doesn't have any sort of demonic connotation. it's not tangible in any way shape or form and it has no properties which influence the world because thoughts exerting force or absorbing or radiating energy would break the laws of thermodynamics and you'd be silly to break those
to me, a soul is just the sum of a body's experiences and breakthroughs in life. it's not really a separate entity at all from the mind proper, since we use our minds to see things and then appreciate them. if you life a rich life, experience a lot, and learn, then that's your soul. if you go through your life stacked with delusions and never really doing much to broaden your horizons, then your soul's not much to speak of. animals and such can possibly get souls too, but are obviously crippled in their ability to percieve and appreciate the world (yeah, animals are in fact way dumb compared to humans. deal.) so it's a tougher process.
as for what happens after, I believe in reincarnation. the corollary to all that hypothetical bullshit in that last paragraph is that the purpose of life is to learn and improve, and living a bunch of times would certainly be conducive to that. as for the rules, it's the generally accepted karmic thing; if you went through life as a total douche, you obviously need a little more practice with the whole existing thing, and an unfortunate rebirth can provide that. if you're getting good at it, you get a little slack. if you're the champ, congrats, no more samsara for you, although you might want to hang back to help other people get where you're standing. the sum of all that the soul's learned through all its incarnations stays with it and can probably influence it while it's incarnated but usually short of actually remembering anything useful
so uh it's mostly the basic buddhist interpretation with some extrapolation
I wish there were a better word than "soul" because christ do I feel cheesy talking about soul this and soul that
but if living is definitively a state of disquietude (as outlined in the four noble truths) then I leave the math to you regarding what finally dying would be like
mostly it just gave me nostalgia for Bleach
never understood why everything had to be done via psychopomp but I guess dead people gotta keep busy
anyway I don't see a soul as something that anyone's necessarily born with, or something that everyone comes to acquire. there are people who just don't have a soul at all, but then again my definition is more abstract than most people's and it doesn't have any sort of demonic connotation. it's not tangible in any way shape or form and it has no properties which influence the world because thoughts exerting force or absorbing or radiating energy would break the laws of thermodynamics and you'd be silly to break those
to me, a soul is just the sum of a body's experiences and breakthroughs in life. it's not really a separate entity at all from the mind proper, since we use our minds to see things and then appreciate them. if you life a rich life, experience a lot, and learn, then that's your soul. if you go through your life stacked with delusions and never really doing much to broaden your horizons, then your soul's not much to speak of. animals and such can possibly get souls too, but are obviously crippled in their ability to percieve and appreciate the world (yeah, animals are in fact way dumb compared to humans. deal.) so it's a tougher process.
as for what happens after, I believe in reincarnation. the corollary to all that hypothetical bullshit in that last paragraph is that the purpose of life is to learn and improve, and living a bunch of times would certainly be conducive to that. as for the rules, it's the generally accepted karmic thing; if you went through life as a total douche, you obviously need a little more practice with the whole existing thing, and an unfortunate rebirth can provide that. if you're getting good at it, you get a little slack. if you're the champ, congrats, no more samsara for you, although you might want to hang back to help other people get where you're standing. the sum of all that the soul's learned through all its incarnations stays with it and can probably influence it while it's incarnated but usually short of actually remembering anything useful
so uh it's mostly the basic buddhist interpretation with some extrapolation
I wish there were a better word than "soul" because christ do I feel cheesy talking about soul this and soul that
I'm not equipped for this question. ask a bodhisattva.
but if living is definitively a state of disquietude (as outlined in the four noble truths) then I leave the math to you regarding what finally dying would be like
sure thing just lemme crack open my reaper's handbook and read you what it says under "maintenance"
life in general is validated by itself. it's silly to act as if everything has no point if it ends in complete obliteration. even if all there is is a big black pit and no means by which to regret, there's still a great deal of human experience in the meantime which makes the whole of life at least significant. the moment's just as important as the start and endpoints.
I believe, that the universe has a purpose for us all, not a purpose as in like the meaning of life or what not, but i believe that nothing is put to waste. IF something dies, i believe the universe uses it's soul for whatever else it needs, may that be plants animals humans even rocks and the sea. We are not going to be wasted, that bieng said however, i also believe that a soul doesn't belong to us, a soul is given as a life source and once it has been depleted it is reused for something/someone else and we ourselves are gone
titanproject2010
Member
Well, I believe that all forms of life are inherently a type of virus, for the fact that we multiply, we grow, we consume, we spread out, we multiply, etc, etc. Oversimplified, I know, but you get the gist. I mean, look at us humans. Our purpose seems to be that we consume all of a planets resources to the point of making the planet inhospitable to human life, and, assuming we survive our own destructive processes, we'll probably find a way to inhabit another planet, which we will also strip of all resources. Yep, I definitely is not a humanitarian. But this string of ideas helps me achieve my goals, in an awkward way.
The other argument I have is that we live so that we can die. Simple enough?
The other argument I have is that we live so that we can die. Simple enough?
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;D
rey meustrus
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Perihelion":70tagvnc said:
It's ideas like that which create animosity among very religious people, especially if it can be implied in any way that yours is (or will be) the majority opinion. What you're basically saying is that science renders spiritualism obsolete, and it doesn't at all. Science is there to ask and answer "How?" but it never even tries to describe "Why?" The "Why?" can be God, it can be animism, it can be spirits, it can be Mt. Olympus, it can be karma, it can be souls, or it can be...anything. Just ask philosophers and psychology researchers about what makes us special; this is their study, and it is usually approached from the perspective that "We can do this. What allows us to do this, what affects this ability, and how can we recognize this in others?" The answer "That's how we're built" does not satisfy that question, and "it's just arbitrary coincidence" is a slap in the face to anybody that wants their life to have meaning.
In my opinion the purpose of life is whatever you make of it.
Personally I want to find out more about where we came from and am doing that by casually studying physics through popular science books. I'd also like to live life as happily as possible and am trying to get to that stage. Finally I'd like to make one big change to the world in life - that's something we'll get to later.
I don't think there is any divine purpose of life (note: that's not to say there isn't a God, or that they didn't create the Universe for a reason. I just don't think we as humans play any part whatsoever in their plans, if they had any).
The soul? Poppycock. Well. I believe in the idea of a soul but would define it as the structure of atoms in the right way as to create what can be seen as a "being", with intelligence and thoughts. I don't think anything happens to that upon death. I can't speculate on what happens to our memories and whatnot because nobody knows how they are formed (yet) and frankly philosophical debates on the matter are pointless - if we want to cover it in a pretty story then fine go ahead but if you actually want to know what happens and why, look to science, which is simply the process of finding things out.
(Note: Science and religion are nothing to do with one another. Religion is worship and belief, Science is finding things out through experiment etc; being a religionist doesn't make you an anti-scientist. You can easily be religious and a scientist - just believe in god and try and find out if he exists. Simple.)
Personally I want to find out more about where we came from and am doing that by casually studying physics through popular science books. I'd also like to live life as happily as possible and am trying to get to that stage. Finally I'd like to make one big change to the world in life - that's something we'll get to later.
I don't think there is any divine purpose of life (note: that's not to say there isn't a God, or that they didn't create the Universe for a reason. I just don't think we as humans play any part whatsoever in their plans, if they had any).
The soul? Poppycock. Well. I believe in the idea of a soul but would define it as the structure of atoms in the right way as to create what can be seen as a "being", with intelligence and thoughts. I don't think anything happens to that upon death. I can't speculate on what happens to our memories and whatnot because nobody knows how they are formed (yet) and frankly philosophical debates on the matter are pointless - if we want to cover it in a pretty story then fine go ahead but if you actually want to know what happens and why, look to science, which is simply the process of finding things out.
(Note: Science and religion are nothing to do with one another. Religion is worship and belief, Science is finding things out through experiment etc; being a religionist doesn't make you an anti-scientist. You can easily be religious and a scientist - just believe in god and try and find out if he exists. Simple.)
bashful crobat
Sponsor
This is a bad thread.
Anything related to the soul is all belief and speculation, and as such fosters nothing besides a gay opinion bitchfight that never really leads anywhere or means anything. You might as well piss up a wall.
Anything related to the soul is all belief and speculation, and as such fosters nothing besides a gay opinion bitchfight that never really leads anywhere or means anything. You might as well piss up a wall.
titanproject2010
Member
I second that motion.┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐":1jjb7psu said:
jmmm, so why did I post in this thread...what is the meaning behind it...? Now, that question right there is something that would make a good thread.
Actually, no it wouldn't.
rey meustrus
Sponsor
dr. goodlife":rvqdl2at said:
I wasn't stating an opinion, I was just ranting about how certain strong beliefs scare and anger certain people. I am not one of those people; I just see them and their fears, and I hate to see people who are oblivious to (or even malicious towards) them, mainly because alienation causes more extreme reactions to perceived injustice.
┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐":rvqdl2at said:
You mean, nothing besides a "jew" opinion "nazifight". Same meaning.
is this supposed to mean something because to me it just looks like you wanted to invoke Godwin's Law on yourself for some reason
so disagreeing with the opinions of a certain hypothetical group of people automatically makes you oblivious towards them?
anyone who is scared or angered by someone who doesn't believe in the soul has no right to be scared or angered in the first place. if anything, feeling threatened by an innocent opinion that runs contrry to theirs shows that they are in fact not at all as confident in their beliefs as they might claim.
again: she was just stating her opinion. she was not contesting anyone else's. you are a sensationalist for trying to spin an opinion that there is no soul into a harmful blow against theists.
the fact that *some* people *might* be offended that people hold different opinions than they do is none of your business or mine. they can be smallminded and standoffish without our help, thanks.
(this also stands for people who don't believe in the soul hypothetically being offended by those who do. I'm not arguing pro or anti soul, I'm just taking exception to you taking a benign discussion and treating it like a stick of TNT.)
bashful crobat
Sponsor
It seems rey is either girding himself for said gay opinion bitchfight, or is trying out some FIGHT DA POWER/FUCK DA MODS thing and contesting my judgment of this thread as if I were exercising my power unnecessarily (even though I didn't actually do anything).
rey meustrus
Sponsor
I hate having to explain myself every time I do this, but to me, calling something "gay" or "faggot" has as much legitimacy as calling it "jew" and should be treated with as much disrespect.
bashful crobat
Sponsor
lol
Keeping in suit with my last post is not the same as outright calling you a gay.
Ignoring that, how, exactly, does calling a pointless opinion bitchfight gay even affect my point? It's still a bad thread and you're still either an idiot or an idiot looking for a gay internet opinion bitchfight.
Keeping in suit with my last post is not the same as outright calling you a gay.
Ignoring that, how, exactly, does calling a pointless opinion bitchfight gay even affect my point? It's still a bad thread and you're still either an idiot or an idiot looking for a gay internet opinion bitchfight.