FoxDemonSoavi
Member
http://news.com.com/IRS+taxation+of...nevitable/2100-1043_3-6140298.html?tag=st.num
Honestly, this is the silliest thing I have ever heard.
Honestly, this is the silliest thing I have ever heard.
Taxation of Virtual Goods
- Thread starter FoxDemonSoavi
- Start date
For the most part it is phenomenally stupid, but they do have some very minor points, primarily the land mogul in 2nd life. How long is it before, if they keep leaving online games untaxable, someone figures out a way to abuse the system and actually use online game material as capital...
however, on the whole it is phenomenally stupid, and due to the ephemereal nature of online gaming, it is unlikely to ever be straightforward enough to tax. How do you value some guy's Sword of Slaying or whatever? Gah, this is so dumb I can't wrap my mind around it. Tax peoples' intangible recreation time... may as well tax peoples' imaginations, after all you can make money by having a good imagination... or tax peoples' fun pencil-and-paper RPG sessions... GAH!!! *brain asplodes*
Still, I find it amusing the implication that IRS folks play a lot of WoW from the article. Can't blame them, I would want something escapist if I worked for the IRS too.
however, on the whole it is phenomenally stupid, and due to the ephemereal nature of online gaming, it is unlikely to ever be straightforward enough to tax. How do you value some guy's Sword of Slaying or whatever? Gah, this is so dumb I can't wrap my mind around it. Tax peoples' intangible recreation time... may as well tax peoples' imaginations, after all you can make money by having a good imagination... or tax peoples' fun pencil-and-paper RPG sessions... GAH!!! *brain asplodes*
Still, I find it amusing the implication that IRS folks play a lot of WoW from the article. Can't blame them, I would want something escapist if I worked for the IRS too.
In the symposium, please try to contribute something to intelligent discussion besides "that is cool" or "that sucks". In fact, try that for most of the forum. If you read and understand it you will understand it really isn't laughable, just implausible. It will most likely become a law that you will deal with for your entire adult life.
I don't know, it is kinda funny....in a dark sort of way.
Honestly though, that seems like a silly rumor to me. A lot of money trades hands on Ebay, why don't we have taxation there yet? That would be easier for the IRS, but it hasn't been done yet. Not only that, the IRS only has jurisdiction over United States citizens, and people all over the world play WoW and other MMORPGs and could theoretically trade items. Though...I don't know if servers are comprised of only people from the same country or not. Plus, I can easily see some young computer whiz inventing a new way to trade items ingame that would be undetectable to the IRS.
Edit: I put "IRS tax Ebay" in google and I got almost the exact same article. I really think that people are just making a big thing out of things the IRS has suggested, but not necessarily thought through.
Honestly though, that seems like a silly rumor to me. A lot of money trades hands on Ebay, why don't we have taxation there yet? That would be easier for the IRS, but it hasn't been done yet. Not only that, the IRS only has jurisdiction over United States citizens, and people all over the world play WoW and other MMORPGs and could theoretically trade items. Though...I don't know if servers are comprised of only people from the same country or not. Plus, I can easily see some young computer whiz inventing a new way to trade items ingame that would be undetectable to the IRS.
Edit: I put "IRS tax Ebay" in google and I got almost the exact same article. I really think that people are just making a big thing out of things the IRS has suggested, but not necessarily thought through.
Like I said when I first heard about this. It's just like when ISPs wanted to make bandwidth a commodity. It probably sounds like a great idea to the money grubbers, but it's never gonna fly.
Hundreds of thousands of millions of 'Gold' passes between characters in World of Warcraft, all over the world. The majority of Gold sellers live in Korea, which the US has no jurisdiction over, so how does that work?
Hundreds of thousands of millions of 'Gold' passes between characters in World of Warcraft, all over the world. The majority of Gold sellers live in Korea, which the US has no jurisdiction over, so how does that work?
Anonymous
Guest
This reminds me of the woman who actually makes a living running a virtual brothel on the Sims Online. People pay simoleans (or however the online currency is spelled) to her girls (and some boys, I imagine) to have cybersex with them. She takes a cut for running the house. Then she eBays them for actual cash. An example of someone making a living off a virtual commodity, sort of, that the government is not getting a cut of. Taxes are a necessary part of life, and everyone should pay their share.
Still, this seems unworkable in practice. Just the fact that the online games are constantly evolving and new ones sprouting up would create a monumental headache in keeping track of what items are in demand, how much they're worth (if you can even define such a thing, save for a mean price they're selling on eBay for), and all the different places those transactions could be taking place. Also, when do you tax? Can you tax an online trade or gift, where nothing but virtual commodities are exchanged? Or can you only tax when the buyer paid real currency for it? How, then, can you keep track of which transactions were for cash, and which were not?
No, it seems like an idea someone kicked around after an all-nighter on WoW and someone else leaked. And then it got blown out of proportion. :P
Still, this seems unworkable in practice. Just the fact that the online games are constantly evolving and new ones sprouting up would create a monumental headache in keeping track of what items are in demand, how much they're worth (if you can even define such a thing, save for a mean price they're selling on eBay for), and all the different places those transactions could be taking place. Also, when do you tax? Can you tax an online trade or gift, where nothing but virtual commodities are exchanged? Or can you only tax when the buyer paid real currency for it? How, then, can you keep track of which transactions were for cash, and which were not?
No, it seems like an idea someone kicked around after an all-nighter on WoW and someone else leaked. And then it got blown out of proportion. :P
Roman Candle
Member
It's the eBaying that involves the actual transaction there though. If you earned enough to make it into the lowest tax band, wouldn't that be eligable to pay tax on?
Anonymous
Guest
Goods sold online are not subject to taxes, though. They'll need to address that first, before they can even start to touch virtual items.
For the part regarding the direct taxation on virtual transactions (where REAL money isn’t involved), I’m absolutely certain it is all bullshit for the already established fact that its effective administration is practically impossible. For one, taxation needs to be CONSISTENT. With every game having differing levels in the economic purchasing power of its currency/items (i.e. 100gold could buy a level 5 weapon in one game, while in another the same amount could only buy a level 1), it’s going to be hell trying to keep track of every game that comes and goes. You’ll need to impose specific taxation rates for each game that account for such differences so as to ensure a FAIR system for all. Otherwise, this would be like imposing a uniform taxation rate on the entire world’s currencies. 100 units of dollars/yen/peso/pounds/etc. is taxed at the fixed rate of 10%.
I can however understand the logic behind it all when real money is involved. That brothel lady in the example given by cocoa is a perfect example where taxation would be applicable. It’s a recurring transaction, it’s providing a service, it’s seems to have a systematic structure about it all, such characteristics make this scream ‘taxable entity’ to me (it’s basically an online service-orientated business). The money received should be taxed, as it is money received from carrying on a business franchise.
@Vol: Check out this article. I wouldn’t yet count out the possibility over ebay US getting a call from the IRS sometime in the near future.
I can however understand the logic behind it all when real money is involved. That brothel lady in the example given by cocoa is a perfect example where taxation would be applicable. It’s a recurring transaction, it’s providing a service, it’s seems to have a systematic structure about it all, such characteristics make this scream ‘taxable entity’ to me (it’s basically an online service-orientated business). The money received should be taxed, as it is money received from carrying on a business franchise.
@Vol: Check out this article. I wouldn’t yet count out the possibility over ebay US getting a call from the IRS sometime in the near future.