State V$. Religion: In God We Trust

[sixtyandaquarter]

The United States has, as an official motto, the phrase "In God We Trust".  It is part of the lexicon, and is -by law- mandatory on all currency outside of the coinage of nickel and cent - although they would be used anyway, as since 1938 all coins have the motto.  It was put into all paper currency in a time period from 1957-66.  And except for a few mistakes, where some bills have passed by missing a press (which would've added the motto, as well as trivial other parts) every piece of US currency has it.

This is a bit controversial for some.  For example, President Theodore Roosevelt levied against using the motto.  Not because of the separation of church and state (which I'll talk about in a minute), but because he thought of it as a sacrilege.  The idea that putting the name of/word God on something as common as money was demeaning and insulting.

There are those like Teddy Roe, who are against it for reasons of that.  And likewise, and more well known, as those that cite the aforementioned separation of church and state as a reason to cull the motto from the brand.  That the first amendment, the "wall of separation between church and state", the freedoms they give, allow someone to not only practice or believe in separate entity than this God, but possibly multiple or no entities/deities.  That this infringes on their civil liberties.
Some have even added to the above by quoting "Give onto Caesar's what is Caesar's, give onto God what is God's".

There have been several solutions people have come up with.  A long standing one was for those who did not enjoy to see In God We Trust to just put up with it and shut up.  Others have suggested adding in other religious notes.  To add into circulation a Hebrew, Muslim, Buddhist, and atheist version of the bill - and when other religions reach a certain percentage, them as well.  Others have suggested simply removing the motto altogether.

This motto, is also the state of Florida's motto, and can be used on license plates in Indiana, North Carolina, South Carolina and Ohio as one of the plate designs.  Not that it matters, because in these places (unless I'm wrong?) it is fully optional.  You can chose not to have In God We Trust placed on your car, and some will argue you should have the right to not have to use In God We Trust currency if you do not have to use In God We Trust licenses.

In God we trust — All others pay cash?

 

[Dann Woolf]

Oh, for fuck's sake. These people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Money is money. It doesn't really matter what's printed on it, right?

Do they really have nothing better to do with their time?

 

[Marcus]

Oh, for fuck's sake. These people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Money is money. It doesn't really matter what's printed on it, right?

Do they really have nothing better to do with their time?

Uh, it's offensive? 

If the money said "In whites we trust, women are second rate and blacks are still 3/4" do you think people wouldn't have a problem with it?  I've always been of the type of thinker who never understood why "In God We Trust" is printed on everything despite America being (originally) a secularist state.  Even the original founding fathers like Thomas Jefferson stated that religion and state should be seperate yet we still slap on this overused motto onto everything like it's some sort of fucking brand name.  Even Jesus himself was for a secularist state saying "Give Caesar what's due to him (taxes) and give God the same (prayer)" not the exact quote but it was to that effect.

By all means take "In God We Trust" off the bills because money is the root of all evil and sin anyways.  Tradition be damned, a monetary note is just that; it's a piece of paper denoting the worth of an object in exchange.  Having seperate bills for different religions is even stupider.  No one's going to intently study a bill and go "wow i haven't been trusting in god lately BETTER START PRAYING!!"

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Money is money. It doesn't really matter what's printed on it, right?

Then if it was Kalika (Kali), you'd have no problem with that?
A goddess of time and change.  Sounds nice right?

Tuggees/Thugee (where the word thug comes from btw) were well known for their practice of murder in the name of Kali - sometimes called Bhowanee.  They were such an influence that the movie Gunga Din is based on the concept of a British army being harassed by the group.

Now.  We have a goddess on our money with the connotation of murder and rape, slaughter and poisoning, and down right war.  Not only is it an offense to every other religion who claims their gods or God is not only the only existing force in the universe, but also states that other gods are a SIN and EVIL, but those can back it up with claims to the thuggees and other groups of "heathens" and "barbaric" practices.

Doesn't sound like it can offensive at all to someone?

BTW you can get the same results if you replace a few words.  Almost every religion works - how bout Kali with God, Kalika with Jesus, and Bhowanee with Yahweh, Thuggee with any number of groups such as the Templars, or even the Homes for the Dying  which purposely give terminally ill patients horrible treatment in the belief that suffering alone brings someone to god, and keeps them alive only to concur more injury, or even white supremest groups that use the slogan openly because it was put in by white Protestant men who they view as great white powers over the colored world, and used the motto themselves.

 

[rexxzecutioner]

In principle it matters to me, but in practice I really don't give much of a damn about it at all. I worry about bigger things first.

 

[Dann Woolf]

Money is money. It doesn't really matter what's printed on it, right?

Then if it was Kalika (Kali), you'd have no problem with that?
A goddess of time and change.  Sounds nice right?

Tuggees/Thugee (where the word thug comes from btw) were well known for their practice of murder in the name of Kali - sometimes called Bhowanee.  They were such an influence that the movie Gunga Din is based on the concept of a British army being harassed by the group.

Now.  We have a goddess on our money with the connotation of murder and rape, slaughter and poisoning, and down right war.  Not only is it an offense to every other religion who claims their gods or God is not only the only existing force in the universe, but also states that other gods are a SIN and EVIL, but those can back it up with claims to the thuggees and other groups of "heathens" and "barbaric" practices.

Doesn't sound like it can offensive at all to someone?

BTW you can get the same results if you replace a few words.  Almost every religion works - how bout Kali with God, Kalika with Jesus, and Bhowanee with Yahweh, Thuggee with any number of groups such as the Templars, or even the Homes for the Dying  which purposely give terminally ill patients horrible treatment in the belief that suffering alone brings someone to god, and keeps them alive only to concur more injury, or even white supremest groups that use the slogan openly because it was put in by white Protestant men who they view as great white powers over the colored world, and used the motto themselves.

1: It's not just Kali's worshippers who do crazy shit in the name of their god.

2: Look, the coins and bills could say "in big fat hairy sweaty bollocks we trust", I'm not American, so it's not really my problem.

In fact, maybe a little bit of humor like that is what America needs, wouldn't ya agree?

 

[Dissonance]

It's awesome that Canada doesn't have it on their currency.

The only problem we have is some faggot foreign monarch on half of our coins/bills.  D:<

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

1: It's not just Kali's worshippers who do crazy shit in the name of their god.

BTW you can get the same results if you replace a few words.  Almost every religion works - how bout Kali with God, Kalika with Jesus, and Bhowanee with Yahweh, Thuggee with any number of groups such as the Templars, or even the Homes for the Dying  which purposely give terminally ill patients horrible treatment in the belief that suffering alone brings someone to god, and keeps them alive only to concur more injury, or even white supremest groups that use the slogan openly because it was put in by white Protestant men who they view as great white powers over the colored world, and used the motto themselves.

It's awesome that Canada doesn't have it on their currency.

The only problem we have is some faggot foreign monarch on half of our coins/bills.  D:<

Spoiler: Dissie just for you:

http://jj.am/gallery/d/50563-1/US_currency_Amerifags.jpg[/img]

 

[serrated_colon]

Oh, for fuck's sake. These people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Money is money. It doesn't really matter what's printed on it, right?

Do they really have nothing better to do with their time?

Because the state should be seperate from the church, yet this pretty much disproves that fact.
btw sixty AMEN TO THAT gmt  > est

 

[Ellie]

State and Church should be seperate... otherwise, you get laws passed on behalf of a set religion, or others not passed, etc.

For example... Britain - our monarch has been head of the Church of England for however many years. Because of this, there is a law saying that the monarch of Britain may not be a Roman Catholic. There is also a law saying the Prime Minister may not be a Roman Catholic. That's why Tony Blair waited until he was out of office before "changing" to Catholicism. That's discrimination against Catholics, by law. It wouldn't be a problem, the law could be revoked (is that the word?), but then you'd have the leader of the Anglican church being a Catholic. For some unknown reason, Christians even hate Christians.

Hmm, I haven't had any coffee today so that probably made more sense in my head than on the screen, so er... I'll be going now.

 

[serrated_colon]

State and Church should be seperate... otherwise, you get laws passed on behalf of a set religion, or others not passed, etc.

For example... Britain - our monarch has been head of the Church of England for however many years. Because of this, there is a law saying that the monarch of Britain may not be a Roman Catholic. There is also a law saying the Prime Minister may not be a Roman Catholic. That's why Tony Blair waited until he was out of office before "changing" to Catholicism. That's discrimination against Catholics, by law. It wouldn't be a problem, the law could be revoked (is that the word?), but then you'd have the leader of the Anglican church being a Catholic. For some unknown reason, Christians even hate Christians.

Hmm, I haven't had any coffee today so that probably made more sense in my head than on the screen, so er... I'll be going now.

But essentially the monarchy is bullshit and all they are, are figureheads who do nothing. Why would Tony Blair wait to become a catholic, according to you only a MONARCH cannot be a catholic, and monarch != prime minister.
And there is no UNKNOWN REASON why they hate each other. It's basically started when king henry vii wanted to become leader of the church, and establish the church of england. The pope excommunicated him and he BEGGED for forgiveness, so he was essentially a catholic still. Then martin luther started the PROTESTANT REVOLUTION(notice the hyperbole). They hate each other because of Church of England vs The Vatican essentially(this is a very vague explanation please excuse any mistakes).

 

[Ellie]

State and Church should be seperate... otherwise, you get laws passed on behalf of a set religion, or others not passed, etc.

For example... Britain - our monarch has been head of the Church of England for however many years. Because of this, there is a law saying that the monarch of Britain may not be a Roman Catholic. There is also a law saying the Prime Minister may not be a Roman Catholic. That's why Tony Blair waited until he was out of office before "changing" to Catholicism. That's discrimination against Catholics, by law. It wouldn't be a problem, the law could be revoked (is that the word?), but then you'd have the leader of the Anglican church being a Catholic. For some unknown reason, Christians even hate Christians.

Hmm, I haven't had any coffee today so that probably made more sense in my head than on the screen, so er... I'll be going now.

Learn to read the sentence before the one you quote...

Anyway.

And there is no UNKNOWN REASON why they hate each other. It's basically started when king henry vii wanted to become leader of the church, and establish the church of england. The pope excommunicated him and he BEGGED for forgiveness, so he was essentially a catholic still. Then martin luther started the PROTESTANT REVOLUTION(notice the hyperbole). They hate each other because of Church of England vs The Vatican essentially(this is a very vague explanation please excuse any mistakes).

It's called an attempt at a joke. I was trying to point out that they are both Christian and still hate each other; but failed badly.

 

[saintninja]

In God you trust or you trust BY God? It's different things... Can you answer on this simple question by yourself. I trust that God existence in us, in every man. Our soul is part of God!

 

[serrated_colon]

State and Church should be seperate... otherwise, you get laws passed on behalf of a set religion, or others not passed, etc.

For example... Britain - our monarch has been head of the Church of England for however many years. Because of this, there is a law saying that the monarch of Britain may not be a Roman Catholic. There is also a law saying the Prime Minister may not be a Roman Catholic. That's why Tony Blair waited until he was out of office before "changing" to Catholicism. That's discrimination against Catholics, by law. It wouldn't be a problem, the law could be revoked (is that the word?), but then you'd have the leader of the Anglican church being a Catholic. For some unknown reason, Christians even hate Christians.

Hmm, I haven't had any coffee today so that probably made more sense in my head than on the screen, so er... I'll be going now.

Learn to read the sentence before the one you quote...

Anyway.

And there is no UNKNOWN REASON why they hate each other. It's basically started when king henry vii wanted to become leader of the church, and establish the church of england. The pope excommunicated him and he BEGGED for forgiveness, so he was essentially a catholic still. Then martin luther started the PROTESTANT REVOLUTION(notice the hyperbole). They hate each other because of Church of England vs The Vatican essentially(this is a very vague explanation please excuse any mistakes).

It's called an attempt at a joke. I was trying to point out that they are both Christian and still hate each other; but failed badly.

oh in that case sorry, but that was seriously vague dude
edit:actually now i get it and i seriously should have understood that, but with the SERIOUSNESS of rmxp.org, it's hard to sift through the bad and get to the good

In God you trust or you trust BY God? It's different things... Can you answer on this simple question by yourself. I trust that God existence in us, in every man. Our soul is part of God!

I trust both! I have the utmost control of this  superior being and am thus a hypocrite but I DON'T CARE! In God We Trust!

Amen.

 

[Stardust]

It doesn't matter what we have on our money.  Those words aren't going to jump out and bite someone who's Jewish.  We can't keep trying to please everyone or we will end up with nothing.  The ideal bill would have only two things: United States of America and the number amount of the bill.  People can find ways to be offended by just about anything else on it.

This is not the issue we should be dealing with.  It's common knowledge that God is the most popular supreme being in the United States.  This isn't a problem until it starts interfering with laws, such as gay marriage.  This is an issue that involves religion and the reluctance of the religious people to allow equality is baffling at this point in time.  Saying two homosexual people can't get married is essentially the same as saying two black people can't get married.

 

[serrated_colon]

It doesn't matter what we have on our money.  Those words aren't going to jump out and bite someone who's Jewish.  We can't keep trying to please everyone or we will end up with nothing.  The ideal bill would have only two things: United States of America and the number amount of the bill.  People can find ways to be offended by just about anything else on it.

This is not the issue we should be dealing with.  It's common knowledge that God is the most popular supreme being in the United States.  This isn't a problem until it starts interfering with laws, such as gay marriage.  This is an issue that involves religion and the reluctance of the religious people to allow equality is baffling at this point in time.  Saying two homosexual people can't get married is essentially the same as saying two black people can't get married.

It's not about that, it's just a kind of hypocritical when you have the idea that the state is seperate from religion and then have IN GOD WE TRUST on american dollar bills.

 

[saintninja]

I don't understand for what IN GOD WE TRUST wrote on dollar bills! Write such words on money is very dirty. It's my opinion!

 

[Stardust]

I understand that we are going against our ideas, but I don't really see why it's such a big deal.  Writing has no impact on us, so it shouldn't need to follow the separation of church and state.  Although the money is created by the state, they are not forcing God upon anyone.  At this point, they are keeping it because it is a part of our history and they don't want to, essentially, erase a part of our history.  The separation was created so laws couldn't be passed based on religious beliefs, I think.  I've never actually read the law, so I'm not sure that this is true.

 

[serrated_colon]

I understand that we are going against our ideas, but I don't really see why it's such a big deal.  Writing has no impact on us, so it shouldn't need to follow the separation of church and state.  Although the money is created by the state, they are not forcing God upon anyone.  At this point, they are keeping it because it is a part of our history and they don't want to, essentially, erase a part of our history.  The separation was created so laws couldn't be passed based on religious beliefs, I think.  I've never actually read the law, so I'm not sure that this is true.

Writing has no impact on us?

The versaille treaty piece of writing but obviously had no impact whatsoever didn't it? I could go on like AMERICAN CONSTITUTION etc. but I find it really hard to understand how you can believe that.
For rest of post please refer to me previous post, so I can avoid repeating myself.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

I understand that we are going against our ideas, but I don't really see why it's such a big deal.  Writing has no impact on us, so it shouldn't need to follow the separation of church and state.

President.  It's all about president.

The Pledge of Allegiance that countless schools in the States now have to use, originally didn't have the term "One nation under God".  It was added in.  Why?  In God We Trust.

The court system, originally didn't have the 10 commandments in them.  And now, or at least somewhat recently, there was a bit of a scandal when a judge was told to remove them from the court house wherever, and it caused a problem.  It caused a problem because the judge is obviously of the Judeo-Christian tree, and a defendant could easily not be.  When your in a court that reads religious doctrines such as You Shall Have No Other God - it does create a feeling of bias.
What was the defend the people who didn't want it removed for was?
In God We Trust
One Nation Under God
And that the laws of our government are based on the 10 commandments (though in truth they're only based on I believe 4 or 5 of them - since the first 4 are out, and the covet thy neighbors wife and such is legal, etc - and no I didn't do the math I'm probably way off on that one).  It creates a president of tradition and "values" that others disagree with.

Step into a public building, that is meant to be blind to all our differences and judge us merely by our actions.
And be faced with religious novelty - and there is a chance you will feel as if you are walking into a sentence already.  It happens allover the world, where someone is already guilty or mistreated because of their beliefs, and it happens here a lot on it's own - how bout we not help it happen.