Slavery and "reverse" racism?

[Despain]

I'm an upper-middle class white male, and I have been the target of racial profiling.

To some people, this is hard to believe. Typically it's people like me that are racist towards black people, right?

Here's the context. I'm taking a (required) African American Literature course in my university. In an effort to stand out from the crowd, in the first paper I took a stance contrary to the "accepted" opinion (something that I usually do in my classes and teachers instantly take notice of me as a good writer because of it) --I challenged Sojourner Truth's status as a flawless hero of black culture. I backed up what I said using quotations, etc, and it was a solid paper. I got a C-, but shook it off. I dropped the idea and went along with the easier paper topics, looking at how bad the slaves were treated and how the whites were wrong, etc. I've been getting lower and lower grades on each paper in the class, the latest being a D-.

D-. That might as well be an F. And for an Honors English major in a regular-level literature class, that just doesn't happen.

On the other hand, the teacher is incredibly lenient with other students in the class. I've seen their grades and their papers, and I have definitely been singled out. The only conclusion I can come up with is because of the stance that I took in that first paper. There's a clear bias here--if you don't agree that all blacks were good and all whites were bad, then you're wrong.

I'm not just ranting here, there's room for discussion. The topic goes further and I want to present a few questions to stir some conversation.

Slavery: if you're white, do you ever find that others blame you for it? if you're black, do you blame all whites for something that may not even personally affect you today?

Is it right that black people get privileges that white people cannot because of the fear of racism (this was presented in a much older topic on this forum a while ago)? For example: most universities have Black Student Unions, but even proposing a White Student Union would be outrageous.

Education: is it even right that "multicultural (in many cases, this simply means black)" courses are a requirement in many high schools and universities?

Is it possible for a white person to challenge the idea that all slaves were perfect? My teacher presents us with a very clear view that Nat Turner is a great hero for abolition, yet in my eyes he is a murderer. Does this make me an automatic racist, or is she automatically jumping to his side because of the shared color of their skin?

 

[Marcus]

if you're black, do you blame all whites for something that may not even personally affect you today?

Never.  I wasn't born into slavery, and I don't blame people for something that didn't happen to me.  I used to live in the deep south, where racism and people with prejudice views still exist but I blame everyone, including people of different nationality other than "white" of being just as bad as slavers for racism.  We're all humans, our blood is red, there is no need to claim superiority because of your minor differences. 

If I said I'm not a little prejudice against people of different backgrounds or that I fear different racial groups in large numbers, would be a flat out lie; it's natural as humans to feel uneasy in different situations but to actually claim racial superiority is plain wrong.

Is it right that black people get privileges that white people cannot because of the fear of racism

Yes and no.  I believe that cultural awareness is important as a nation that's a melting pot of various nationalities, but the thing is, WHITE isn't a race.  I hate how America classifies anyone as being caucasian as being white and I think it's incredibly retarded.  The pilgrims that settled in America were all from Europe, making them European.  There is no such thing as white culture.  When you say white culture, you instantly bring up the idea of rampant slavery and hate groups because they refer to themselves as the Aryan Nation (Aryan is actually translated as Noble Spirit).

There is such a thing as European culture, European history and that's studied in schools.  Black history is a culmination of African history and African American history (as there's very little written African history to begin with).  The only way to diminish these differences is simply to call everyone who lives in America AMERICAN.  Why we don't consider ourselves a race yet is beyond me; every other country firmly refers to themselves as British or German or Japanese... America seems to be the only country that shares a true identity crisis.  We've bred so much with so many different nationalities that we don't even have a name to refer to ourselves anymore.  I can't count how many have said "well I'm 2% cherokee lol!"

Education: is it even right that "multicultural (in many cases, this simply means black)" courses are a requirement in many high schools and universities?

As I said above, multi-cutural awareness is key to evolution.  Only by learning from your enemies (or friends) can we achieve any hopes at creating a "perfect" society.  Every civilization since the dawn of time have made mistakes and created new leaps in technology; only by studying both can we have any hopes in advancing. 

Is it possible for a white person to challenge the idea that all slaves were perfect? My teacher presents us with a very clear view that Nat Turner is a great hero for abolition, yet in my eyes he is a murderer. Does this make me an automatic racist, or is she automatically jumping to his side because of the shared color of their skin?

No man is perfect, but don't forget the phrase "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."  You see him as a murderer; he did murder people.  Your teacher see's him as a rebel freedom fighter; he did fight for freedom.  Regardless of your views, you shouldn't recieve a lower grade specifically because you look at things differently.  If that's the case, your teacher isn't doing her job.

I recommend you talk to your teacher personally; one on one, but DON'T bring up the subject (yet).  Instead, ask her what you're doing wrong and if there's anyway you can improve.  If you follow her instructions to the letter and you still recieve bad grades or she refuses to speak to you, then bring up the subject.  If the problem still isn't resolved, then take it up your chain of command (or whatever you civilians use for people with power... the dean or something.  Fuck I'm in the military I don't know this shit!!).

 

[Aeon Blue]

I'm an upper-middle class white male, and I have been the target of racial profiling.

To some people, this is hard to believe. Typically it's people like me that are racist towards black people, right?

It's not that hard to believe. Forgive me if I'm misreading this, but there seems to be a tone of slight indignation and disbelief in your post. Even the term "reverse racism" implies an expectation that racism only works one way, from whites against blacks.

if you're white, do you ever find that others blame you for it? if you're black, do you blame all whites for something that may not even personally affect you today?

I'm a white woman and I find the suggestion that there exists today a black American not personally affected by slavery hard to believe. The deep division between the races, the attitudes and prejudices that have existed up until only a few decades ago don't disappear overnight. And, ignoring all that, ignoring that the media tells us that "white is right" and black people are limited to being wise-cracking sidekicks and ghetto superstars, how do you live in an unaffected state knowing what your parents and grandparents lived through? What you will, what your children might? That would be too heavy for me to forget, personally.

It's hard enough for me to be a woman and live with the weight of knowing that my gender has been nearly universally oppressed since the beginning of recorded history, socially, sexually, economically, intellectually--in every damn way. Some believe that sexism has been eradicated overnight, but tell me that your brother, the television commercials, the movies with their blonde and brain-dead, twenty something sexpots and your video games with their equally artificial heroines don't know a woman's true place.

That's getting off topic, but my point is that believing that racism is no longer an issue because you, yourself, are not out there hate-mongering doesn't mean that other people don't face the consequences of the past every day of their lives.

Is it right that black people get privileges that white people cannot because of the fear of racism (this was presented in a much older topic on this forum a while ago)? For example: most universities have Black Student Unions, but even proposing a White Student Union would be outrageous.

To assume that this is unfair is to assume that the playing field is level for both groups involved, which it isn't. The idea of a White Student union isn't ridiculous because it involves white people, it's ridiculous because white students are not a notoriously underprivileged minority.

Education: is it even right that "multicultural (in many cases, this simply means black)" courses are a requirement in many high schools and universities?

Considering that serious black history has been erased from history books until only very recently, and that most students probably wouldn't be aware of it otherwise, I think it's a good idea to take some time to appreciate it. It makes more sense to me than the useless state history they require you to take, certainly.
 

Is it possible for a white person to challenge the idea that all slaves were perfect? My teacher presents us with a very clear view that Nat Turner is a great hero for abolition, yet in my eyes he is a murderer. Does this make me an automatic racist, or is she automatically jumping to his side because of the shared color of their skin?

Of course it's possible, and should be permissible, for you to challenge anything you want. It is possible, maybe even likely, that your teacher is reacting in a biased manner. If this is true, I believe you should take it up with her, and if the problem still exists, with those above her. I've seen professors single out students for worse reasons.

Although I wonder if perhaps you aren't misrepresenting your actions in class? At times you make it sound as if you're only accusing people of being "not flawless," which sounds harmless, but then you go on to say that a supposed great hero is only a murderer. Historical heroes are often both, you know. Perhaps your teacher feels that you aren't properly understanding the positive significance of these historical figures actions and are instead judging their actions in an inappropriate social context?

In any case, I doubt anything "automatic" is going on. That's too simple an answer and as much of a hasty conclusion as the percieved threat.

 

[kyonides]

Well, I'd love to say something about this kind of topic.

I think now that these black unions and other organizations don't really help black people. I have a feeling that they just make them aware of the possibility that they'll be targets of racism. I wish someone could tell me if all black students are satisfied with the way the teachers exposed that situation or not. I believe that creating a black "association" or anything else won't make the racism disappear. Why? Because it reaffirms there is a difference. I know the problems the n-word has caused in the past centuries, but one thing is to be proud to say that you're black not n-word and another one would be to create institutions that would let them feel more comfortable in a university campus. If a single group is allowed to found such an organization, then every single group should be able to do so, even if they are "white", latinamerican or asian. If you say no to one of them, you're still as racist as a "white man" that insults a black man.

To assume that this is unfair is to assume that the playing field is level for both groups involved, which it isn't. The idea of a White Student union isn't ridiculous because it involves white people, it's ridiculous because white students are not a notoriously underprivileged minority.

Is it a must to be a notoriously underprivileged minority to be able to found any kind of organization? I don't think so. That would mean there is no "white people" suffering due to poverty. Let's say there is any poor young boy or girl that needs some help if they really want to study at an university. Shouldn't he or she get some help from an union that may allow him or her to attend to the classes on a daily basis? I think he or she should appreciate such an effort. That's a good reason why any other union should be founded just like the black students union did. Again, they should never call it a white students union.

I agree with Marcus that people should stop saying white man and being proud to be part of the k organization, if they are at all. Descendants of european immigrants would be more explicit, if it's true. They may be part cherokee, navajo, etc. But if you remember something about WW2, the idea of being "part [any race]" is the worst example of being racists. The nazi were the exponents of this ridiculous "theory" and you know how they treated not just the jews but also the polish, ukranian and maybe even lituanian people. Even if they were european, they were treated like scum. They didn't care.

You know what? I'd propose that they reform the American English a little bit at least. Why? Well, I just think they should never say anything about races if they aren't talking about plants or animals. We should accept the truth that humanity is divided just because of stupid "reasons". The only reason I would accept as valid would be that everyone may speak a different language.

There is still something else I would consider as remarkable.
Sometimes I have found some Christians (or that's just what they say that they are) that don't even act as one of them. What do I mean? They look like normal people but at a certain point they aren't as religious as they pretend to be. I would like to accuse them of being racist because they treat people in a really respectful manner until they notice these people aren't "white".

This part consists of a religious criticism. If you don't share the same belief, you're free to skip this part I you wish to do so.

Another thing I would like to mention is why do black people still congregate as a separate brethren? There are historical facts behind this, but I don't believe this is what is expected of any Christian. Why there are not as many churches that include all kinds of people as they actually should do according to Scriptures? I really wish to see the day come where there won't be a church for just a group but for all people who share the same belief. I needed to mention this because I think it would be a mistake to keep all groups as separate entities that should not coexist in the same place (a church, an university, etc.)

 

[Ellie]

@Marcus: It is not just America who use White as a synonym for Caucasian or European or whatever the correct term is. In Britain, most forms where we have to fill in a nationality the first choices are "White british", "White other", etc. It's just so easy to call us white. I am not saying that is right, far from it. But, in politics, form writing, and even in conversation, people say what is simplest. Like my sister went to school this morning apparently. (She's in a foundation course at University!) But school is far easier to say.

I don't think there should be allowed to be groups, University student unions or whatever, that are segragated by race. Having an all-Muslim bar for example, is racist against all those whose religion is not Islam. Having a Church of England school that only accepts Christians is just wrong. Or even the concept is Shiela's Wheels (a rather gender-rolled car insurance company in the UK just for women) is discriminating against men. ("Women are the safest drivers; we could save a bunch of fivers").

But then what can you do. If you have two people standing next to you, you will always look for differences. Race, Gender, etc are just the "easiest" to split people up with, and so racism/sexism is born.

I've gone a bit off topic haven't I...

I am "white" (Caucasian British?) and at my school there is a lot of racism. In the common room, everyone hangs around in groups. The "white" girls in the corner, the "asian" boys in another corner with the pool table, the "white" boys against the wall, the "black" boys in the middle on chairs, and everyone else dotted around. This isn't forced or anything, it's just that when a person from one of those groups walks in they immediately find where their group is and join them...

(My Nan called a Polish guy "black as the ace of spades" before. Guess that sums up the intelligence of racist people.)

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

I dunno.
I don't like the idea of segregating groups, especially if they are publicly supported organization.  Such as a publicly supported school publicly supporting a specific race/gender/whatever.  I'm annoyed that the government will pay a person of a certain color in a certain neighborhood to go to schools that academically they couldn't get into, but not the kid not of that race in the exact situation.  But, to be truthful, I could care less what a privately supported organization.
Let the privately funded organization donate to have a kid taught in a school who he couldn't get into on his own, if they want.
I think we should be fair though.  If we can have an all one color/creed group, we should be allowed to let any other color/creed or combination thereof be allowed to do the same.

And you people are weird.
I never hung out with the "white kids".  I never hung out with any clique.  I moved from clique to clique depending on the way I felt that day, cept in highschool where I was with the social outcast rockers, geeks, dealers, and thugs.  But then again, while we were mostly white, there were 90 of us at almost any given time after school (not everyone cut, so the number went down during), and at least a third weren't white.
Freaks.  And your "white kid" groups :x

Honestly though, if you can't challenge someone based on their success for a race, it's not cool.  I'm not well versed in whoever you said (I already forgot the name, and am too lazy/tired to scroll up.  But I hear people of color challenge MLK all the time.  I'm "white" by most people's standards, could I not make the same claims?

As for being white and blamed for, yeah I've had that racism thrown my way - hey it is racism, it's not exactly reverse racism.  Speaking of reverse racism, to interrupt my own thought, isn't that when your enforcing an idea of a stereotype, but you think it's a good thing?  Like saying all Asians are good at math?  I've seen that phrase used one to many times, under one too many meanings.

Anyway back to my disjointed post here, and the thought I was having.
Whenever anyone threw that in my face I just brought up how my great great (however many greats) grandmother is 100% Native American, and her husband fought in the Civil War because of slavery... as in not for money, or duty to nation, but because it disgusted him (or so the family stories go on that one).  Hell, on my mother's side we were still in Canada, she was the first in her whole family to move to the States that we know of when she was like 11 or 12.
Funny thing is, then I get the "oh so you helped us, yeah you different"... because apparently my ancestors affect who I am, and I'm now a different person than I was five minutes ago because of it.

Blah, I'm too tired to post.  This probably made sense only to me.

 

[Despain]

It's not that hard to believe. Forgive me if I'm misreading this, but there seems to be a tone of slight indignation and disbelief in your post. Even the term "reverse racism" implies an expectation that racism only works one way, from whites against blacks.

I know, it's just a good "hook" for drawing people into the topic. And it worked--this is a great topic so far with some good dicussion.

I believe that creating a black "association" or anything else won't make the racism disappear. Why? Because it reaffirms there is a difference.

Yes, yes, yes! In another debate that we had here a while ago, this was a big point that I made which was mostly ignored.

As I said above, multi-cutural awareness is key to evolution.  Only by learning from your enemies (or friends) can we achieve any hopes at creating a "perfect" society.  Every civilization since the dawn of time have made mistakes and created new leaps in technology; only by studying both can we have any hopes in advancing.

I agree, but that's not what these educational institutions teach. For a lot of them (my university included) you're stuck with either Early African American Literature or Modern African American Literature. I'd hardly call it "multicultural" when we're only being shown one culture.

To assume that this is unfair is to assume that the playing field is level for both groups involved, which it isn't. The idea of a White Student union isn't ridiculous because it involves white people, it's ridiculous because white students are not a notoriously underprivileged minority.

Where I am, it's about half and half. It has less to do with being an actual minority than being a perceived minority.

Considering that serious black history has been erased from history books until only very recently, and that most students probably wouldn't be aware of it otherwise, I think it's a good idea to take some time to appreciate it. It makes more sense to me than the useless state history they require you to take, certainly.

I don't know anything about your school system, but here it's been shoved down our throats since elementary school. Black history is an important subject to know about, but year after year (especially during Feburary...) we learn the exact same thing over and over again, to the point where it simply seems to get in the way of learning other things. You can only hear the story of Rosa Parks so many times, and after seven years of reading Frederick Douglass he begins to lose his edge.

 

[Aeon Blue]

If a single group is allowed to found such an organization, then every single group should be able to do so, even if they are "white", latinamerican or asian. If you say no to one of them, you're still as racist as a "white man" that insults a black man.

It's not the same. Equality isn't about "everybody gets to do the same thing," but rather, "everybody gets the same opportunities." Black people, collectively, have a legitimate need to ensure that the equality they fought for is carried out. Yes, white people can be underprivileged and suffer hardships too, but until a person can go to a school and say, "Yeah, I'm having a hard time in America because I'm white," then a white student union explicitly for whites isn't needed. Same goes for the lesbian/gay/bi/transgender community. They have an opposed cause to further. Heterosexuality, on the other hand, is far from being challenged. Having a union to represent a group that is violently held as the accepted norm is redundant and unnecessary. If you are in the norm then you are represented, you are represented damn well. Let the people that aren't speak up and do what they need to do to make the slow climb to stand beside you.

I use to feel similarly that minorities that tediously screamed about differences in treatment were only further setting themselves apart, until I came to realize that the majority of people out there truly aren't aware that inequality still exists. The idea to sit down and behave like everyone else in order to fit in doesn't work when you're being denied job opportunities, fair wages, equal treatment and the like.

You know what? I'd propose that they reform the American English a little bit at least. Why? Well, I just think they should never say anything about races if they aren't talking about plants or animals. We should accept the truth that humanity is divided just because of stupid "reasons". The only reason I would accept as valid would be that everyone may speak a different language.

This is kind of sweet in its rosy idealism, but you're talking about the melting pot, which is an outdated fallacy. Race is more than skin color. You have to recognize how vastly different things like heritage, culture and religion make a person's life. These aren't silly or arbitrary separations. A person growing up in China or even raised by chinese parents in America is going to experience the world in a different way than the average european descendant whose family has been living here for hundreds of years. You couldn't tell that person "You are in the melting pot now. You are no longer chinese. You are the same as everyone else."

 

[kyonides]

It's not the same. Equality isn't about "everybody gets to do the same thing," but rather, "everybody gets the same opportunities."

If that's true, why wouldn't they accept the foundation of a "white" students union? Then it means they wouldn't get the same opportunities...

Having a union to represent a group that is violently held as the accepted norm is redundant and unnecessary.

And who needs to be oppressed to be able to found an union? Even if a "white"/asian/native american students union is just some sort of club, they should be free to organize such an institution. If someone believes that they don't have a motive to found anything (or it would be prohibited), then there should be a problem with the concept of freedom. I would quickly call it racism. Why? Because it'd prove that they don't actually have the right to do it if they wanted. Even if you don't see a reason to found the union, there may be a group that is waiting for the day when they'll be allowed to found it.
I know that black students may need some help from people of their same kind when they think that they were victims of racism, but that shouldn't be the only reason why they should need their union. They should believe they can achieve other goals than just being respected by their fellow students or being included in any career or in any club. I think they have other goals, actually, but it'd be good to know what else do they do as an union.

These aren't silly or arbitrary separations. A person growing up in China or even raised by chinese parents in America is going to experience the world in a different way than the average european descendant whose family has been living here for hundreds of years.

But a different standpoint doesn't mean that they should be so different that they shouldn't be included as part of a single race, mankind, or as part of the rest of the american, european or asian. I wouldn't support anyone who thinks that we should leave some ethnic group "in peace" (I mean, not dealing with them at all). Intercultural exchange of opinions / standpoints should be promoted, but I may say that it isn't what I've seen in my life. Many people still choose to be part of their "own group" only.
I don't think my idea of reform of the American English is bad or that there's no real need to do it. I prefer to give you an example. In Spanish you don't tend to say that they are different human races but cultures. October 12th is called the "day of all cultures" nowadays. It wasn't the case a few decades before, but that didn't stop them to change it and start using a more appropriate and more realistic term...

I agree, but that's not what these educational institutions teach. For a lot of them (my university included) you're stuck with either Early African American Literature or Modern African American Literature. I'd hardly call it "multicultural" when we're only being shown one culture.

You know what? I would include some important facts / literature / other materials that would let the american students learn about other cultures like asian and latinamerican literature or history. Until then I wouldn't even dare to call it multicultural.

 

[The Wizard]

I agree that we all should be equal and the fact that there are groups centered around one race or one gender is discriminatory, why doesn't someone make a group for people that need help with school funding or whatever the porblem and have it be open to all people who need the help instead of centering it around one race or gender.

The problem I see is that the folly from the past is constantly being beaten into everyone's head and people reflect more upon the past almost as hatred is being ingrained into peoples head.  What history books and media usually don't show is that there were slaves of all races and religions, there were actually more Irish slaves than black, native-american, asian, hispanics, or arabs but yet that is rarely taught or known.  Every color has been subject to slavery at some point and every color has held a slave at some point.

Yes there is still racism today unfortunately but by ridding a long drawn beat up horse and focusing on building a racist free future one must forget about the past, keep it in mind and learn from it but don't portray it as it still exists in the exact same way today.

Even "politically correct" commercials and such try to have culturally diverse actors and actresses by having a white, black and asian person, but wait.... oh they forgot the hispanic, where's the hispanic!?!? If any race should complain or have a group it should be the latinos/latinas they are so mistreated in this country it is not even funny.  Anyway that's streamlining off topic.

 

[kyonides]

The problem I see is that the folly from the past is constantly being beaten into everyone's head and people reflect more upon the past almost as hatred is being ingrained into peoples head.  What history books and media usually don't show is that there were slaves of all races and religions, there were actually more Irish slaves than black, native-american, asian, hispanics, or arabs but yet that is rarely taught or known.  Every color has been subject to slavery at some point and every color has held a slave at some point.

well, several indigenous folks have been treated as slaves in human history. Sometimes the emphasis could be even worse than not dealing with the subject at all. I guess a young racist boy or girl may not be able to feel that its a "need" to demonstrate their "superiority" as often as they would if there is no emphasis on racism. Teachers may perpetuate the race superiority myth by just teaching them the same old stuff. It would be much better to read some modern African American books than just some old ones when you still are at school or high school. It may expose a more positive concept about being a black man nowadays than just reading Black Boy to discover that even an author may have included too many racists concepts that may be shared later by the racist students at your school if there are any.

Even "politically correct" commercials and such try to have culturally diverse actors and actresses by having a white, black and asian person, but wait.... oh they forgot the hispanic, where's the hispanic!?!? If any race should complain or have a group it should be the latinos/latinas they are so mistreated in this country it is not even funny.  Anyway that's streamlining off topic.

Oh, I know where did they go! They are the new gangsters or criminals in any movie located in Miami and other places. I don't support it, but this has been a common practice in the last few years. One thing I consider that it should be weird is that any movie focused on LA or California doesn't include a lot of latinos at all. It's weird... Are they being racist because of this?

 

[Aturaten]

It's not that hard to believe. Forgive me if I'm misreading this, but there seems to be a tone of slight indignation and disbelief in your post. Even the term "reverse racism" implies an expectation that racism only works one way, from whites against blacks.

Look at all media. Look at every movie about racism. They'll have a small character representing the supposed "minority" of white-hating blacks but for the most part it's always those damn honkeys oppressing the innocent blacks. Reverse racism is also defined as the practice of instituting policies that are designed to combat racial institutions when they in actuality put the majority race (in this case, whites) at a disadventage.

I'm a white woman and I find the suggestion that there exists today a black American not personally affected by slavery hard to believe. The deep division between the races, the attitudes and prejudices that have existed up until only a few decades ago don't disappear overnight. And, ignoring all that, ignoring that the media tells us that "white is right" and black people are limited to being wise-cracking sidekicks and ghetto superstars, how do you live in an unaffected state knowing what your parents and grandparents lived through? What you will, what your children might? That would be too heavy for me to forget, personally.

Oh boo-hoo. The media hardly tells us "white is right". Look at the predominating culture: it's frigging hip-hop. Don't like rap? You're a racist. Hate 50 cent? It's because he's black. Look at commercials. The white guy is always this socially inept, clumsy oafish moron while the black guy is cool, calm and relaxed.  Have you ever even MET a black kid or even young adult? They are by far the most racist people I've ever encountered. Anything "white" is uncool.

And yes, people can live a normal life if their parents were persectuted. First of all not every black person in America came here during Jim Crow/slavery days. Secondly, during the days of segregation OTHER races were persecuted as well. No one wanted the Irish and they were regularly assaulted. Same with the Hungarians and the Italians. This was less than 3 decades ago. Using the 'WEL MY DADY HAD TO GO TO A GHETTO SCOOL CUZ WE WAS IN TEH GHETTO' excuse is absolute bullshit.

It's hard enough for me to be a woman and live with the weight of knowing that my gender has been nearly universally oppressed since the beginning of recorded history, socially, sexually, economically, intellectually--in every damn way. Some believe that sexism has been eradicated overnight, but tell me that your brother, the television commercials, the movies with their blonde and brain-dead, twenty something sexpots and your video games with their equally artificial heroines don't know a woman's true place.

Again, BAAAAAW. Yes, women were persecuted. It sucked for you all for a long time. However, it's over and done with. Women are put on a pedestal today. You have affirmative action. You have numerous programs to put you over the top to males. Again, women in movies and television are for the most part presented as being more intellectual and generally better people than men. Ever watch any of those crappy sitcoms like According to Jim or King of Queens? Notice how the wife is always the one in the right? And as for the video game comment: welcome to fantasy. Men play video games predominately and like to see good looking women with large chests. Just like how all those crappy chick-flicks have impossibly good looking male love interests who is a girl's dream.

It's not the same. Equality isn't about "everybody gets to do the same thing," but rather, "everybody gets the same opportunities." Black people, collectively, have a legitimate need to ensure that the equality they fought for is carried out. Yes, white people can be underprivileged and suffer hardships too, but until a person can go to a school and say, "Yeah, I'm having a hard time in America because I'm white," then a white student union explicitly for whites isn't needed. Same goes for the lesbian/gay/bi/transgender community. They have an opposed cause to further. Heterosexuality, on the other hand, is far from being challenged. Having a union to represent a group that is violently held as the accepted norm is redundant and unnecessary. If you are in the norm then you are represented, you are represented damn well. Let the people that aren't speak up and do what they need to do to make the slow climb to stand beside you.

Guess what? BLACKS CAN'T SAY "I'M HAVING A HARD TIME IN AMERICA BECAUSE I'M BLACK" EITHER! Blacks can marry. They can get jobs with lower qualifications than a white man and obtain said job. They can get into Harvard with a 3.0GPA. Just because a large amount of blacks are in poverty does not mean they are inequal. It means life dealt them a bad hand and they should make the best of it. The fact that we are identified by a race, black, white, arab etc., politically and economically instead simply people will forever perpetuate racism. Just because a person was born a color and under crappy conditions does not warrant him using Uncle Sam as ladder rungs. Just because a certain race, the majority race, has a large amount of the power does not mean all other races must be given a helping hand.

I use to feel similarly that minorities that tediously screamed about differences in treatment were only further setting themselves apart, until I came to realize that the majority of people out there truly aren't aware that inequality still exists. The idea to sit down and behave like everyone else in order to fit in doesn't work when you're being denied job opportunities, fair wages, equal treatment and the like.

Hi misinformation, this is Aeon Blue. I believe you're well acquainted with each other. Sorry, a person will always be payed equally for equal work. If not they can take it to court and win. All "historically discriminated groups"  (meaning minorities and women, even those who are for the most part newcomers to North America) are given affirmative action.

 

[Andy6000]

Now now, no need to grow heated over this.

I think that the concept of a black union and this 'reverse racism' as Des calls it is, indeed, horrible and racist and discriminatory in itself.  But let us not forget reality.  Aeon Blue has a point, and it is that this sort of thing is still affecting us today.

There is a higher percentage of underprivileged black teens/children than white.  Hence the idea for a black union to alleviate that ugly little statistic.  But wait, would it not be better to just have a union to help all underprivileged children?  Why yes, yes it would.  But let us again remember reality, and remember that cultural norms have not changed as much as you think.  When you see a black male, mid twenties, you think of 50 Cent, as someone has already mentioned.  And I believe we can agree 50 Cent is not a good image you want running around your academic academy?  As it stands, culturally, we're indisposed to be slightly racist in our decisions based on how we perceive someone (maybe a realist view again?  There are higher rates of crime in 'ghettos' than suburban neighborhoods after all, thus a higher probability this kid is going to be a negative influence). 

Beginning to see the point of these regulations that basically force us to create these black unions if we want to improve certain things?  Discrimination is an ugly truth, but one that most definitely exists, and it goes both ways.  Our situation is not good, but I believe the whole black only union thing is a necessary evil for now.

Oh also, Nat Turner and his gathered mob's victims were predominantly women and children, 'freedom fighter' is not a label I'd like to apply to him.  Unintelligent murderer with a moral shield is what I'd label Nat Turner based on the little information I know about him.  The guy wanted revenge, and just because he was oppressed does not make revenge a pretty thing.

 

[kyonides]

That's true. It would only give an excuse to people like the k's to "justify" their bloodthirsty cause. Then the bloody spiral of disaster would just grow bigger and wilder...

 

[Venetia]

Hot damn you're angry, Aturaten! Simmer down!

Just because the media has started to give more praise to non-white males and less to white males than they used to, it's still not 100% even. I personally think that the white-bashing has gone on long enough, but it's human nature to discriminate just as much as it's human nature to feel discriminated.

It's hard to live your life without looking too deep into something and pretending that discrimination is boiling beneath the surface. It feels like every time someone assumes I like jewelry and romantic comedies and know nothing of electronics just because I have a pair of tits, I'm being discriminated. It's hard not to.

The key is to just wash everything down with a glass of apathy and realize that stereotypes can only personally affect you if you let them.

The only people truly being discriminated against (in America, anyway, but yeah, worldwide, too) nowadays are homosexuals, since they actually enjoy less freedoms than anyone else, according to written law.

Apathy doesn't always work though and there is a definite case for decrying all forms of discrimination: If no one ever brings up discrimination, no one'll ever realize it's happening.

 

[So fist]

On the other hand, the teacher is incredibly lenient with other students in the class. I've seen their grades and their papers, and I have definitely been singled out. The only conclusion I can come up with is because of the stance that I took in that first paper. There's a clear bias here--if you don't agree that all blacks were good and all whites were bad, then you're wrong.

Sounds to me like your problem is more with how the teacher is evaluating you than the course itself.  Its a tough road to tread when you're being assessed capriciously.  I've gone through similar situations myself when I was in school.  My Senior seminar class was graded on an interesting curve.  It was bad enough that we were required to read the books the Professor wrote (always a bad sign), but the Professor graded men on a much harder scale than woman.  I spoke with several others who have had him before and they all felt the same way, including women who found it a bit patronizing.  It sucks, and I've seen both ends of the spectrum of biased teaching.  I wouldn't blame the subject matter for shortcomings of the teacher, though.

Education: is it even right that "multicultural (in many cases, this simply means black)" courses are a requirement in many high schools and universities?

Yes.  If its right that we are required to study all of the dead white Brits from the Romantic era then I don't think its absurd that we Americans also be required to study something "non-western" e.g. African American Lit.  Seriously, how important is the contribution of any of the Brontes to western civilization, anyway?  Are they really necessary to know about?  Are they anymore necessary than James Baldwin or August Wilson?

Is it possible for a white person to challenge the idea that all slaves were perfect? My teacher presents us with a very clear view that Nat Turner is a great hero for abolition, yet in my eyes he is a murderer. Does this make me an automatic racist, or is she automatically jumping to his side because of the shared color of their skin?

No it doesn't make you a racist but I fear your applying a set of impossible values on Nat Turner's situation. 

Consider they were slaves.  Property.  Their children were not their's.  Their own bodies were not their's.  Their future was a shack in the woods until they starve.  Their wives couldn't guarantee their chastity of their matrimony, and their marriages were not honored by white men.  They had never known fairness or justice from a white man, instead they were tutored by whips and bits like pack animals.  Do you expect eloquence?  Diplomacy? Martin Luther King from this? 

Had the Jews from Auschwitz found a way to break from the camp, would you marginalize them as murderers if they slaughtered the residents in the neighboring towns they deemed collaborators?

Is any of this just?  No, but the crime is more complex than murder, and the situation more criminal.  All that said Nat Turner is important footnote, because he inspired a lot of fear driven slave code legislation, but hero is not the word I would use to describe him.

As I said above, multi-cutural awareness is key to evolution.  Only by learning from your enemies (or friends) can we achieve any hopes at creating a "perfect" society.  Every civilization since the dawn of time have made mistakes and created new leaps in technology; only by studying both can we have any hopes in advancing.

I came from a nice cushy white suburban paradise, and now working as a teacher at an inner city high school in a low income area I have found that understanding the basics of other cultures extremely important for establishing productive relationships with these kids.  This goes beyond simple understanding of how each are used to communicating but also understanding the city's own rhythm.  When you make the attempt at understanding on their level they really appreciate it.

@Aturaten

I'm going to bring out the real elephant in the room concerning modern issue of racial equity.  True parity in education.  It does not exist.  There will never be an end to inequality until the achievement gap between low income inner city minorities and their suburban counterparts are bridged.  We can pat ourselves on the back all we want on how its no longer legal to rape African Americans that we own, but if we as a society don't prepare them alongside the rest to take advantage of that freedom, then for them or anyone else who have been failed, that freedom does not truly exist.

 

[jbart321]

Hate to say it, but I agree with almost everything Aturaten said.  This country is designed to make all whites feel bad for something most of their ancestors had nothing to do with.  I am in the firm belief that we create our own lot in life and too many times is the race card pulled out to say this is why we can't get ahead. 

Racism sucks but it is a part of all races, not just the white man.  Most people have been subjected to it in one form or another in their lifetime.

Des, your teacher is definitely treating you different cause of what you said and that is a shame.  It's funny how free speech is only viable when it is convenient.

 

[GhastlyMasquerade]

People fear speaking the truth. What should we be ashamed of?

 

[Kojo]

When it comes to being white, I tend to rise to the top. I am whiter than most. Not just skin tone, but also the way I act.
It really sucks.
  I can't dance, can't drop a beat, can't even jump. I can't play basketball, or talk street, I can't call women "hoes" in front of millions of people and get away with it. I can't let a situation lean unfavorably to a non-white kid or I'm racist. I can't even say what I'm saying without sounding racist. It is so unfair. For all you people out there waiting to jump on us white boys for being... white... remember that we can't do all of this, so cut us a little slack.

Anyhow. I HATE being "politically correct." To answer Despain's question: Yes, I feel people still blame me for my "forefather's" mistakes. Even though my family has almost always been too poor to have slaves. But I don't think the blacks blame me. Other whites who think the blacks can't look out for themselves anymore blame me... I think...
But really, I try not to see the world as black and white, but as peach, brown, chocolate, cream-cheese, maroon, and fuscia. The fact is: I'm not racist, but I feel like someone has accused me.

 

[Brosek]

Despain with all love and ... well love..

To someone that said.. "You're black, accept it" like it was a death sentence to me. I have a hard time taking you or your words seriously.

I mean you, yourself said that you were exactly what people thought of you.. so why are you complaining of it? I'd see if people were profiling you to something you think you're not but *waves hand around* you get the point?

My ancestors isnt me.. and I really could careless to anyone who isnt me. My pet peeve though, is people who do annoying, offensive things and try to be buddy buddy with me afterwards.. My life is short enough as it is.. I dont have time to bicker and be demeaned because you see my skin as a curse.

I myself, I am not accepted by anyone (besides women).. so I have taken solace in the fact that I will be alone for the rest of my life. (Besides whoever I marry).. and thats all well and good, because noone matters to me. At the end of my life.. I will die alone, clinging like a child to the end of my lifeline, wanting to live longer. That is fated to humankind.. when you realize this... life becomes bareable.. for true fear isnt that of acceptance.. its of helplessness.

Modify Edit:

If you really want to see why we're so offensive you have to actually be black. On the internet especially..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_g767gS6DCE

We are put through shit just for existing..
Police arent your friend if your a black guy.. trust me. Even I, with my freakish eyes are a "hostile" and my elegant tone (Actually quote from some KFC guy lookin cop). I have been stabbed  to the point of bleeding profusely but I still was sent away because the sister said I pulled the knife on her. He called me a statistic as I was put into the back of the police car.

You have no idea how it feels to be that helpless.. no matter what you accomplished you cant reach high enough for recognition. You're a shadow with no name.. and what makes it worse is the world doesnt look at your brightest, smartest members.. they look at the retards in the rap videos. Reverse racism? Its helplessness.. all our races have members we're ashamed of.. but its 10x worse for those born black. Rednecks? Yeah.. but everyone ignores them... Rappers? Oh god.

To be honest Despain I purposely avoid threads you're in.. solely on that you'll probably say something to me that annoys me... I cant explain to you why we feel that way. Yet try staying in a room where everyone hates you or doesnt think much of you.. You know people are whispering about you and you dont know which people are or arent. If you can grasp that.. you can almost phathom why we feel like this.