Shell Game/"Cup Shuffle" Mini-game help

[Rayen]

Oh look, my first post. :D I apologize beforehand if this is in the wrong section, but I really need help with this. I've already run various searches and couldn't find anything on this type of mini-game.

I'm basically looking for the easiest way to implement a Shell Game/Cup Shuffle mini-game in my game, either through eventing or script. If you don't have any idea about what I'm talking about, check out 0:30~0:49 of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E28CKkIrdqs.

What I'm asking of you is either help through:
1) Eventing it for me, or
2) Creating a script for me to use

I'm not really looking for this mini-game to be entirely realistic. I'm pretty much just looking for it to be set up like how it is in the Suikoden vid I posted earlier. 'Cause, really, this is just a "one-time" mini-game for a festival in my game; it's only gonna be used for a single in-game day. It's not gonna be around forever like in Chrono Trigger, so I don't need something overly-complex. :huh: I don't want the mini-game to be -so- easy(or exploitable), that you're able to win a ton of money so soon, but I also don't want it to be so hard where it's pretty much impossible to win. I'm looking for something in between, if possible.

I need this as soon as possible! Thanks to anyone who's willing to help!

 

[Rayen]

Anyone? Anyone at all?

 

[zchin]

I can help you with this, welcome to the forums by the way. I'm not much good with explaining but if you give me a couple of days I should be able to figure this out and make it. This seems like something that I should post for comments and stuff.

Oh, and if you don't mind me asking, what's this for? Your game, because I'd like to have a look at it :smile:

Thank you and have a nice day!

 

[Rayen]

Ah. Thanks for trying help out.

I'm in the process of making a game with a friend of mine and one of our towns is supposed to have a small festival of sorts. This is one of the mini-games I was hoping to include in it. :P I might post a few screenshots of the game in the mapping development thread/screenshot thread sometime.

 

[zchin]

ok, well I'll post what there is right now, and I'll explain the system a bit,

Ok, so there are 6 set's in which the cups are arranged, the middle one is always going to have the cup, after I'm done I might make a cheating cup shuffle person that changed the coin.
L = Left Cup
M = Middle Cup
R = Right Cup
I named them at the default positions to the left cup might be on the right some times.
So the set's are:
MRL 1
MLR 2
RLM 3
RML 4
LMR 5
LRM 6
And the set's won't be repeated, however the cup shuffle might use 1-3 of the set's in one shuffle. (I liked you template in the Wips/Small things thread by the way) I'm looking forward to your screenshots too.

Thank you and have a nice day!

 

[Rayen]

Thanks again for helping out with this. What you have so far looks/sounds good.

(I liked you template in the Wips/Small things thread by the way) I'm looking forward to your screenshots too.

Thank you~ I'll probably have a couple of screenshots up by the end of the week.

 

[zchin]

Ok, the system is done, just need to plug in some links and things but expect a download link later today in this post.
I had to ditch the set idea because just two of them were making the game laggy. :crazy:

It seems that there has been this glitch while I made the plug in links and things so it's going to take a bit longer I'm not sure if I'll attempt to fix it or just let someone else take it on, I'll post a link to the help topic I'll be making as soon as I figure out how to upload and compress a file...
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71644
It's right on top of this one if you somehow can't see it. (just in case)

Sorry for the inconvenience.
Have a nice day...

 

[Rayen]

Um.. So how's this going, zchin? :crazy:

 

[zchin]

OH MY GOD! Ummm I totally forgot about this, I'll try and have it in really soon.

Thank you and have a nice day!

 

[Daxis]

This game is not necessarily a cup shuffle game, and has been reproduced in various forms throughout; all you need to do is follow the cup.
For that reason, however, you really can't rely on pre-eventing each outcome, or else that's a shitload of eventing; basically, you hide 3 things into one sprite (a cup or a black ball or something), and have it move around at really, really high speeds which confuse the player at which is which. If you event this individually, the minigame can't be repeated often.
I actually remember playing this minigame late in Dark Eternal: Dissolution. Probably has been repeated in several other games.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Brewmeister]

Several interesting points:

If the game is meant to be visual (i.e. you really can follow the cup), there are many different movement strategies that the 'dealer' will use to confuse the player.
basic moves are just switch A & B, BC, AC. Advanced moves might move A & B one direction while moving C the other, circling one cup around another while using slight of hand to drop a cup & pick up another while passing it. There are moves where the row of cups end up either forward or back from where they started. Programming such a system would be exhaustive, but provide a 'near infinite' combination of moves so the game could be played often without getting predictable.
Played 'legitimately', assuming the player always loses track of the right cup, the odds are always 2:1 in favor of the house. i.e. the player is 'guessing' which cup the pea is in.

More importantly...
These games, cup/shell/3 card monty, are all CONS (confidence games). The point of the games being to sucker a player (mark) into believing they can follow the cup by allowing them to win a few times with small bets, then when they get cocky & start raising the bet they lose, increasing the win odds for the house/dealer. The 'dealers' all cheat. Again, using slight of hand a good dealer can move the pea from one cup to another while shuffling the cups. They can also 'palm' the pea (typically in the pinky finger) and place the pea under any cup they want while revealing the cups after the shuffle & 'wrong choice' (i.e. when the player chooses, all 3 cups are empty). Contrary to Daxis' statement, the skilled dealers do not move the cups fast. They want the player to 'follow' the cup the pea started under to distract him from what's happening with the other cups (and the pea). Also, this way they know which cup the player will choose, and can make sure the pea is elsewhere.

You, as a game designer, need to decide how the mini-game fits in with the rest of your game-play, and the dynamics of the mini-game. Then when you make your request for a script or event system, it will be detailed enough that someone can code it the way you want.

Be Well

 

[zchin]

AHhh, I won't be able to finish this because I don't seem to have enough eventing knowledge to make it work, the cup shuffle so far can be downloaded
here:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71644

So sorry... :down:

Thank you and have a nice day....

 

[Brewmeister]

I think your logic is too complicated. Instead of moving the cup events, why not just make the coin event invisible, move it to it's ending position, then use animations to simulate the cups moving. You would need 2 animations for a very basic system (swap adjacent cups, swap end cups). You could add additional animations to swap the cups either CW or CCW, or get as fancy as moving all 3 cups at once.
You can save yourself some headaches, and make the system more efficient by thinking about what the player sees on the screen rather than trying to emulate what happens in the real world.

I might play around with this. Only because I'd like to see how well I can get animations to mix with events, blanking the events during the animations, and still have it look decent.

The problem I have with this type of mini-game is it's practicality for game-play. If the idea is for the player to have an opportunity to build up some cash, you have to make the game so easy to win that it will be monotonous. If it's more realistic, and the idea is to rip off the player, they will only play it once. Hardly worth the effort of including it.

That's why I asked Sekai to put a little more thought into how the game fits into the storyline, and what the objective is, and post more specific requirements.

 

[Rayen]

@ zchin: Thank you so much, zchin, for giving up some of your time to try and help me. :smile: It's okay if you can't finish it. At least I have a rough start to it for others to look at and maybe help refine for me to use.

@ Brewmeister: I'm not really looking for this mini-game to be entirely realistic. I'm pretty much just looking for it to be set up like how it is in the Suikoden vid I posted in the OP. 'Cause, really, this is just a "one-time" mini-game for a festival in my game; it's only gonna be used for a single in-game day. It's not gonna be around forever like in Chrono Trigger, so I don't need something overly-complex. :huh: I don't want the mini-game to be -so- easy(or exploitable), that you're able to win a ton of money so soon, but I also don't want it to be so hard where it's pretty much impossible to win. I'm looking for something in between, if possible.

 

[Rayen]

Hm. Anyone else wanna give this a shot?

 

[Rayen]

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